 Poster: A snowHead
|
@Gored I think you made the point yourself more eloquently than I could:
“If someone has not engaged correctly, then that is user error.”
Yup, if there’s potential for a user error that could result in a board falling off, then it’s reasonable to require a safety backup.
I only had a brief try of the system, but the the potential for both user error and accidental release on a crowded chair was clear enough. It would be a very rare event for sure, but not vanishingly so. Also, as you say, mostly a newb issue but since they don’t hand out badges to confirm your l33t status, you’ll just have to leash-up with the newbs.
I saw someone get turned away from a lift in Tignes yesterday for not having a leash. I’m sure the lifties will forget soon enough, but for now there’s a rule and it’s being enforced.
I quite liked the system BTW. In / out seems like it should become second nature pretty quickly and they rode well enough, given that I was using someone else’s kit that wasn’t fully set-up for me (although it was pretty close). I’m a lapsed engineer and I do have a nagging feeling that we should be able to do better than effectively lashing ourselves to the board. Step-on feels like the right kind of tech. Flow, Supermatic, etc, no.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
It is pretty hard to disengage if engaged fully & correctly.
|
Agreed, I've never had a problem apart from the one time. But that was an eye-opener! The front foot had been locked in a couple of hours so definitely engaged correctly. The chairlifts you need to particularly watch out for are the older ones where the foot-rest is a steel tube rather than a wide plastic step - just narrow enough to sneak in the gap and catch the release.
Spent ten minutes swapping the levers to the inside this weekend, then rode for a couple of hours at Trafford. No harder to unclip, and much better protected from interference. Surprised this is not detailed in the user manual as an option - the bindings are clearly designed in a modular fashion to allow it. This isn't a great option for my split though, as the levers would be on the inside for walking. Will definitely be using a leash on that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Okay, 1st hand experience here. We hired kit in Andorra a few weeks ago, and were pleasantly surprised to be offered the Burton step-ons.
Morning of day 2 we'd just caught a chair. Safety bar came down and the assorted shuffle to get your skis and board onto a rest started. As my wife lifted her front foot up to the foot rest the end of the bar caught on the release lever. And the board dropped straight off her foot.
Yes, she had been clipped in properly, we'd just come down a longish piste. With your back foot already released the board itself makes a long lever for unclipping from the boot once the release catch is pulled.
The good news is that we were still over the fenced off area right in front of the lift.
Once we realised how it had happened we were super careful for the rest of the day, and looked out some bag straps as temporary leashes for the rest of the week.
Other than that I liked them. I don't normally take much time doing up a normal binding, but after a day or two I did like being able to come off a chair and just keep moving, stepping into the binding whilst on the move. I've done that before with normal bindings, but only when it's very quiet. With these I could stay stood up, keep my head up and see where I was going whilst clicking in. No noticeable looseness or loss of performance for me as a casual piste cruiser.
If I had a choice when buying kit between Step-ons and normal bindings for the same cost, I'd go with the step-ons - a little more convenience, and also no wear and tear on your boots from the binding straps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I was also stopped this week and was bemused at being told to use a leash. It was before getting on the De Fresse lift above Val Claret. Apparently the rule is new this 23/24 season, only for Step On bindings and I was told that there'd been ten incidents of boards getting detached from owners and luckily nobody had been hurt so far. I was allowed to proceed.
I wandered around 4 shops in Val Claret and couldn't find any for sale. Gave up looking. Haven't been stopped again elsewhere across Tignes nor Val d'Isere.
I've been using Step On for three seasons now and never had the system disengage unintentionally. Given the double clicks at the heel alone then the single on each of left and right toes, I know from experience that it stays on without all four being fully engaged. I agree that these incidents must be due to the lever being pulled, however so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
A couple of anecdotes from snowboarding in the 90s with hard boots and always a leash.
I once ripped the front binding off the board. This was a light Voile split touring board, with the bindings screwed directly into the wood core, rather than inserts. Fortunately the read binding stayed attached. I'm pretty sure the main damage was from an earlier crash; it gave way completely on a relatively innocuous run
On chair lift I always detach my rear foot from the binding. When getting on non-detachable chair lifts I'd swing my rear foot back to hit the chair with by boot to slow the chair down just before sitting on it. Once (I think a on chair up to Les Menuires), the impact of boot to chair knocked the rear boot forward, and it caught and undid the clip at the front of my front binding, leaving the board dangling solely by the leash. I did manage to haul the board up and reattach the binding during the ride up, but it was challenging
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Never had an issue with my Step Ons disengaging - but I have swapped the highbacks around so that the levers are on the inside of the binding not the outside.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Crosbie wrote: |
An eagle eyed liftie in Tignes early December saw a boarder next to me without a leash, and said he wouldn't be allowed on the chair a 2nd time without one (he was lucky to be allowed to remain). The boarder was quite surprised, as such a reprimand was a completely new experience for him.
As for myself, I've always used leashes on my boards (>30 yrs).
I've also used step-in bindings, but although the K2/Shimano/Clicker step-ins are still going strong, the Fritschi hardboot step-ins have long since disintegrated (UV damage upon plastic). |
I had a pair of K2 clickers too, they worked incredible well!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Did they hold you, did they hold you tight
Get aged Tignes clicks right through the night?
You don't get this kind of stuff over on the ski boot gazing thread!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Did they hold you, did they hold you tight
Get aged Tignes clicks right through the night?
|
Absolute class - chapeau!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Out of interest.....has anyone heard anything more about this for next season?
I was stopped on Fresse in Val Claret in January with the same story (it's getting banned, very dangerous, lots of incidents).....never saw the same liftie again and no one else questioned it.....Also, no one questioned to sky poles flying down the piste or the absolute Jerry running after his board because he'd put it on a slope and forgot to stand on it / strap in.....I'd be far more worried about that than a board off a lift (golden rule is don't ride under lifts anyway given the number of poles you see under them).
I've still got the original leash if I need to stick it on but seems a bit pointless to me.
We're off to La Plagne in January so wondered whether anyone had heard of it becoming adopted more widely than a single liftie on a mission to "save" people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
You should probably consult a professional leash-fitter... and FORTUNATELY for you, I am a fully licensed and bonded leash fitter so can offer a selection of top performance bits of string; customised to you riding style, ability, weight, height, girth, and spectral aura. Prices start at about £500, but obviously as you're off in January, you've left it a bit late so there will unfortunately be a surcharge for doing a rush job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
The OP said it was just Tignes. Unless I misinterpreted it, he said he thought it was for step-ins only. I did not encounter problematic boy scout patrollers anywhere last season, but I didn't visit Tignes.
Their website doesn't include anything on this in their https://en.tignes.net/skiing/safety section, and their search engine returns nothing for a search for "leash". I'd be interested in their rationale; there's no obligation on them to justify their decision, but you'll get better compliance if you can prove you've not completely lost your marbles. Their hard to find how to be safer page also doesn't mention leashes.
This covers their summer activities and shouts
| Quote: |
| SNOWBOARD, SQUAWL, SNOW ALPIN, STEP ON, FREESNOW (LEASH OBLIGATOIRE). |
Freesnow is probably "no boarding", which you're obviously going to be using a leash for anyway.
Note though that it isn't specific to step-on bindings. Or my own race step-ins, which must be most dangerous as I ride so much faster.
The Val d-Isere website has nothing useful on winter safety at the moment I can find.
One could of course email their customer services and ask for a complete set of terms and conditions. I'm not going or I'd do that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| You should probably consult a professional leash-fitter... and FORTUNATELY for you, I am a fully licensed and bonded leash fitter so can offer a selection of top performance bits of string; customised to you riding style, ability, weight, height, girth, and spectral aura. Prices start at about £500, but obviously as you're off in January, you've left it a bit late so there will unfortunately be a surcharge for doing a rush job. |
I reckon I can fit the leash if needed but thanks for the offer 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I think I'll avoid asking customer services. Have to say, it was really random. I'd got the leash in my board bag so just stuck it in my pocket for the week but it was literally the first lift of the holiday when I was asked then not again. I took it as a ridiculous grumpy liftie just having a go at me for no reason until I saw this thread.
I actually don't mind sticking the leash on if I need to but it kind of defeats the object (and I've never had the binding disengage in 4 years of riding them....if anything I'd prefer they were easier to step out of with my back).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
We saw a board with step ins flying down a slope in Val D last year. I suspect the leash requirement has came in due to an increase in exactly this. I'm not suggesting that the bindings are failing, it's probably down to user error. But even if somewhat uncommon it makes sense for a resort to bring in a leash requirement, runaway boards are potentially very dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| paulhinch wrote: |
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| You should probably consult a professional leash-fitter... and FORTUNATELY for you, I am a fully licensed and bonded leash fitter so can offer a selection of top performance bits of string; customised to you riding style, ability, weight, height, girth, and spectral aura. Prices start at about £500, but obviously as you're off in January, you've left it a bit late so there will unfortunately be a surcharge for doing a rush job. |
I reckon I can fit the leash if needed but thanks for the offer |
Once you have achieved a perfectly fitted leash, thee is of course the small matter of its correct useage. FORTUNATELY for you I’m a fully qualified level 4 instructor and can offer a variety of courses, both group and one on one, from complete beginner to professional level coaching. I am available in January, fees are negotiable, but must include flight transfer and full board accommodation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I've seen a few runaway snowboards, usually at head-level, but always either taken by the wind from the hands of someone walking with the board, or from a rack/restaurant pile up. This feels like a solution in need of a problem 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I've seen more runaway skis. They come off when ski folk crash.
Leashes should stop this mad dangerous behaviour and save lots of lives.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| phil_w wrote: |
Leashes should stop this mad dangerous behaviour and save lots of lives. |
They should probably be leashed together too, fore and aft, though to prevent user error a sensible safety feature might be to mount both bindings sideways across the skis, locking them together. In fact to improve stability there should probably be some sort of material in the join...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| phil_w wrote: |
I've seen more runaway skis. They come off when ski folk crash.
Leashes should stop this mad dangerous behaviour and save lots of lives. |
Nearly got decapitated on a steep groomer by a runaway ski that had reached the velocity to bounce up and tomahawk. Punter should never have been on the slope nor should the rental shop have been renting skis where the brakes simply couldn't pop out enough to engage. We sent I'm a way with a somewhat forceful suggestion that he should immediately go back to the shop and get skis which actually functioned properly. Look uphill folks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| phil_w wrote: |
I've seen more runaway skis. They come off when ski folk crash.
Leashes should stop this mad dangerous behaviour and save lots of lives. |
Nearly got decapitated on a steep groomer by a runaway ski that had reached the velocity to bounce up and tomahawk. Punter should never have been on the slope nor should the rental shop have been renting skis where the brakes simply couldn't pop out enough to engage. We sent him away when he finally slithered down on his arris with a somewhat forceful suggestion that he should immediately go back to the shop and get skis which actually functioned properly. Look uphill folks. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Had a ski shoot over my head and miss killing me by about 6 inches back in July. I was working at the top of a lift on a white out powder day, the ghost rider just shot out of the clouds and then headed off down a drainage. I’m gonna go get it soon when the snows melted.
Been using step ons last few months and never had a woopsie. Can’t see how they would accidentally release.
Did however see a guy in his underwear with his pants and boots still attached to his bindings. Definitely worth using the little clip on the back of the boot and carrying a pocket knife for emergency egress.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just done a week in La Plagne. Loads of people (including me) riding Step Ons. Never seen anyone questioned about a leash.
Still can't work out how one could accidentally fall off if it was in properly.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| paulhinch wrote: |
| Still can't work out how one could accidentally fall off if it was in properly. |
Isn't that exactly the point though? Humans make errors and can be careless. There appear to have been incidents of boards being dropped from lifts. Does using a leash have any significant disbenefits?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I saw a step-on boarder challenged and ticked off in Tignes this morning. First time I have seen it happen. Perhaps it is a thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Ski lots wrote: |
| I saw a step-on boarder challenged and ticked off in Tignes this morning... |
Isn't that what the Gallic shrug was invented for?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I always use a leash on my step on setup. Can’t see the issue with it tbh, I probably only come out of my front binding 2 or 3 times a day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Ski lots wrote: |
| I saw a step-on boarder challenged and ticked off in Tignes this morning. First time I have seen it happen. Perhaps it is a thing. |
Wouldn't surprise me if it was the same liftie who had a go at me about mine last year. I took it to be that there's always one.
Bottom of the Bollin in Val Claret.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| paulhinch wrote: |
| Still can't work out how one could accidentally fall off if it was in properly. |
Isn't that exactly the point though? Humans make errors and can be careless. There appear to have been incidents of boards being dropped from lifts. Does using a leash have any significant disbenefits? |
They do make errors. I've seen 5 People on skis today fall off lifts..... FIVE!!!! In one day!!!!
Should we strap all skiers to lifts in case they fall off???
More seriously though, you'd have to effectively not have stood on the board after you clipped in for it to come undone. There must be way more skis lost or ski poles (literally under ever lift this week).
I've seen more snowboards with regular bindings flying down a hill because some numpty has taken it off and not kept hold of it than I've heard about Step Ons falling off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@paulhinch, I'm still struggling to understand what the objection is to using a leash.
I've never seen a lost ski under a lift. Poles yes, skis no. The consequences of pole landing on someone are likely to be a lot lower than a snowboard landing on them and there isn't as straightforward a mitigation measure as using a leash in the case of snowboards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@sugarmoma666, never seen a lost snowboard under a lift neither do what's your point?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Isn't the point of a leash nothing to do with lifts but because people are more likely to step out of both bindings and a snowboard doesn't have brakes?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
The times when snowboard are lost are usually when people are walking around carrying them - a leash isn't going to solve that.
Snowboards just don't drop of people's feet on lifts - for most binding systems they are strapped on with two straps.
I reckon there's a tiny bit more of a risk for step on, but nothing serious. I use a leash on my step ons because I've moved the levers over to the inside of the bindings, so it could conceivably be kicked and released, but mostly I use a leash because I'm at work, and if I lose a board off a lift thats going to be a massive beers fine and incredibly embarrassing, and it's no big deal to use a leash IMO. But I would never use one on regular bindings and I never use on on my hard boot setup on a split board.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Gainz wrote: |
| @sugarmoma666, never seen a lost snowboard under a lift neither do what's your point? |
True, but even in this short thread there is a report of having someone with step-on bindings losing their board on a lift and a snowboard instructor who can easily see how it can happen.
I'm still struggling with why folk are so reluctant to use a leash. Am I missing something? Is it that inconvenient? I'd always assumed that a leash only needed disconnecting if you were taking both feet off your board, which doesn't happen that often, and even then could be an easy quick release system. (I'm a skier, though, so could be missing something really obvious.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
For the record the “incident” yesterday was on the Chaudannes lift. One of few in Tignes that go over a road.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @paulhinch, I'm still struggling to understand what the objection is to using a leash. |
If you are going to bend to put on a leash, you may as well bend to bind up. Making step-on USP pointless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| Gainz wrote: |
| @sugarmoma666, never seen a lost snowboard under a lift neither do what's your point? |
True, but even in this short thread there is a report of having someone with step-on bindings losing their board on a lift and a snowboard instructor who can easily see how it can happen.
|
so a single event.
yet lots of events of skiers losing a ski
why does someone lose the thing on their feet? human error because they have not binded in correctly. Probably not shown to a first timer to know they are engaged correctly. Clunk - click - click every trip!
I walk to front of lift queue. drop my board, step on - I get a puzzled look, but it's quicker than skating & once lifty has see it once, no bother.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
For the record, I have seen dropped skis under chairlifts, so yes it's a 'thing'.
My dislike of this "rule" is that it's neither clearly stated nor is it not being evenly applied. The whole story of this smacks of a minority with a particular grudge wanting to make life more difficult for certain people who they take issue with taking advantage of a rumour which probably is not true or occurred in such a vanishing rare scenario as to be pointless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
For the record, I have seen dropped skis under chairlifts, so yes it's a 'thing'.
My dislike of this "rule" is that it's neither clearly stated nor is it not being evenly applied. The whole story of this smacks of a minority with a particular grudge wanting to make life more difficult for certain people who they take issue with taking advantage of a rumour which probably is not true or occurred in such a vanishing rare scenario as to be pointless. |
Probably goes back to 2017 shortly after step-on release & the cleats could disengage. Burton done a recall & offered free replacement cleats for anyone with the original cleats.
https://www.burton.com/us/en/stepon-update This was about 6 weeks after release.
This would not have been many. StepOn sold on day 1 & how many people still use StepOn from 2017?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for the heads-up guys - just bought a Burton Genesis / Photon set-up … no leash supplied. Off to the PdS on Thursday. Any idea where I can get hold of one please?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
