Trains to the Alps.... please oh chosen ones, what's your secret?

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@sugarmoma666, the current (i.e. not new pod-style) Nightjet 4 berth compartments have space for skis under the bottom bunks as long as you don't have loads in one bag. I fitted my duffle bag under as well, but it was a squash and a big solid wheeled case would be a problem. There's also a luggage shelf at the end of the top bunks (over the corridor) which might be wide enough for skis, but skis and cases up there could be difficult.

Overall it's fine as long as you don't take the kitchen sink.

A snowHead

@jellyspoons, great post! I feel your pain with all the confusing options, indecision and missed opportunities.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, because the train journeys I do don't involve crossing the channel, and i think the Eurostar makes life extra hard. But my experience has been that you have to be prepared for extra complexity and risk with the train, at least during the booking process. It's not like flying, where if a plane is delayed or cancelled, the airline will probably sort you out (eventually). So knowing your contingency plans helps. But the actual travelling is far far nicer than flying, or driving, in my opinion.

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@MoaB, you might want to check it rigourously.

Even with being on the ball and booking my TGV tickets for April in the first 30mins after release, my return fare from South Oxon to Moutiers comes to ~£270 (using an Avantage Card that has already paid for itself on other trips). Using an Interrail pass I estimate it would have been £318. I really should have bought Interrail passes with the 25% off Black Friday deal, as that would have tipped things narrowly in favour of Interrail.

If you're traveling from further afield in the UK, the balance is likely to tip fairly quickly in favour of using an Interrail pass. For under 27s I reckon it's a no brainer.

You're right, though, the Interrail can come into it's own when booking late, although you're then playing chicken with there being any Eurostar Interrail fares left.

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For continental train journeys with stops on the way, are skis and suitcases out of sight safe from theft?

We’ve noticed that on OUIGO trains in France, French travellers send someone in the party to keep an eye on luggage at each stop. Trains often have two decks, your own luggage can be piled up near exit doors, way out of view.

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It's worth trying to go backwards from your destination. Travelling to both Switzerland and Austria I've found it much easier to plan and book from eg Zermatt or St Anton

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@Snow&skifan, I've not travelled on OUIGO TGVs, just the INOUIs. I don't bother going and watching my luggage at stations. Skis are in the racks above the seat so no issue with those. I've not noticed anyone else going and guarding their luggage either. Maybe it's a OUIGO thing?

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@sugarmoma666, I should point out i'm not primarily looking at Eurostar; to date I've always used the North Sea ferry (I briefly considered Eurostar for outbound last year, but ruled it out for fear that rail strikes could screw-up getting to London, if not Eurostar itself).

When I saw the price of Interrail last year I initially thought it was comparable to my total train costs, but quickly realised it would not save much on the Nightjet (usually the main chunk of the cost), and and not worthwhile if other tickets are 30 odd euros - But if late planning means the only available trains with suitable timings are 100+ Euros then it starts to look more attractive.

I thought I'd seen it in the past, but when I was booking last week I couldn't always quickly see the the element of ticket costs that was the reservation fee (ie. the additional cost that would go on top of the interrail pass).

After all it is free

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This is my experience with booking to travel to Les arcs this Easter...
1. Book easyJet flights to Geneva at sociable times to allow transfer to resort by train cost about £1k for 4 in my family.
2. 6 months later easyJet moves flights so that train transfers are no longer possible
3. Consider taxi transfer but at £500 return seems expensive.
4. Decide to go by train all the way, so cancel easyJet, which I could do as they had moved the flights.
5. Book Eurostar to Paris leaving Saturday evening returning late Sunday a week later, our accommodation in Les arcs is Sunday to Sunday. Cost £400.
6. Book Paris hotel at Mercure Gare de Lyon £300 for 2 rooms close together.
6. Can't book sncf yet so sign up to be notified.
7. Find out through reading snow heads when tickets are available to book (24 Jan)
8. Don't receive a notification from sncf but remember to log onto the sncf website later the day sncf tickets are released.
9. Buy carte advantage for one adult.
10. Managed to buy a return Paris to Bourg SM via Chambery tgv. For just under £500.
11. Total spent £1200 including night in Paris so works out cheaper than flying for me. I much prefer travelling by train and avoiding the airports and associated faff. For me with children the interrail passes were not cost effective.

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I'm writing this from a train to Val Thorens, I've travelled by train to the Alps multiple times. On this occasion we went from London to Paris (Eurostar) then Paris to Moutiers (TGV) and Moutiers to Val Thorens (Altibus). The Snowcarbon website lays out all the timings and tickets, so from our perspective it was all extremely straightforward. We paid £138pp RT for the Eurostar and £181pp RT for the SNCF portion, plus about £10-12pp RT for the Altibus.

If we'd flown, I'd have had to include quite a few more taxis and trains on the UK side to get to the airport, and I'd have had to pay extra for luggage and for my skis. It would have cost more to fly, but more importantly, it is just vastly more comfortable to take the train.

I didn't look into any Interrail options or other discount cards, maybe we are missing a trick with all of that. But the way we've done it worked for our group, we've done it this way often and we have a wonderful time at a price that feels affordable.

@celicadriver, I thought it would work out more cost effective with children to use Interrail passes but that will in part depend on their ages. I'm surprised, but I'm sure you'll have looked into it in more detail than me. The free Interrail passes for 4-11yo so that you only pay the seat reservations (approx €80 return for Eurostar plus TGV) always sounds like a bargain to me - at least that's how I think it works. The under 27 Interrail passes always look good value too.

You know it makes sense.

@diaphon, really good to hear. I also find the trains far more relaxing. For info, using an Interrail pass to Moutiers, including any rail travel in the UK (provided those are on the data your exit and leave the UK) currently works out or at ~£320 per person for 27yo and above.

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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The issue for me is the cost...I don't mind faff as I love an adventure but the cost of the train is prohibitive.

This year I am flying from BHX to GVA before getting the train to Riddes where a relative gives me a lift up the hill. All in the travel, including parking, is costing £200.

I would love to get the train but it is simply too expensive...I already have a season ticket for travel to St Pancras from where I live so I wouldn't have to pay for that section but the Eurostar and TGV then SBB is more than double my costs to fly.

I used to live in Belgium and we looked at travelling to Innsbruck as a family. We could have driven to Dusseldorf then put the car on a train and travelled overnight on a sleeper. It was £1000 one way. Driving down was roughly two tanks of fuel.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Some great insights here. I tend to travel by train to the Alps 4-5 times a year and my process is similar to the above:
1. Book Eurostar as soon as I know my dates
2. Renew Avantage card annually
3. Book European leg via SNCF Connect as soon as available

For me stage 3 normally means within 48 hours, but I have an advantage in that I'm rarely travelling Sat-Sat, normally 5-6 day trips on weekdays, so less competition/better value.
The typical cost, London to Alps, inc Paris is less then £200.

Even though I am experienced, I have also had challenges booking. I went to Chamonix earlier this month and when I tried to book I could not get the f**king SNCF system to let me book a through ticket from Paris to Chamonix. Eventually I worked out that they had not finalised the timetable for St Gervais-Chamonix, so booked to St Gervais. That cost an extra €17 on the day. Probably negligible difference, but I wasted a huge amount of time.

Other points:
1. Paper metro tickets are over (although you can still buy them in carnets of 10 on Eurostar). I have downloaded the MyNavigo app to my phone and that works fine.
2. Getting from Gare du Nord to Gare de Lyon is not complicated and typically takes me 25 mins, hence I normally allow 1hr to a connecting train
3. I typically arrive at St Pancras 45-60 mins before departure. It's never taken me more than 30 mins to go from check in to 'departure lounge' and is normally 15 mins
4. I allow more time for checking in at Gare du Nord: it's more likely to be nearer 30 mins here (although with the current redesign going on, it's been quicker on the last two trips)
5. If you can't find space to sit at Gare du Nord departures, go right to the end and up to the higher level (almost always space up here)
6. I often upgrade to 1st class on SNCF as it's sometimes only €10-€20 more
7. Wi-Fi is terrible on Eurostar, excellent on SNCF: I organise my work plan accordingly

Lots more info and case studies at www.skiflightfree.org plus videos at youtube.com/skipedia

http://youtube.com/v/vU6tDuiZ20Q&list=PLnWt0xPp4oTqPp0n4Ke3ULgU8IAVy8kSv

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I’ve also done it a few times. Once with a bicycle which makes it all much more interesting. Laughing

I’m doing it again this summer. again with a bike. I could go into the logistics of travelling from the UK to Southern France with a bike, but this isn’t a bike forum so I won’t, unless anyone is specifically interested.

My tips are to book Eurostar tickets ASAP. French train tickets are available later on. Sometimes a train will appear as fully booked initially but then will become available later on if you keep checking. Also trains can appear in dribs and drabs. There is no other way to describe the French train ticketing system than as chaotic. Laughing

I’m generally travelling alone, which makes things easier. I’m not sure that I’d like to do it en famille, and certainly not with young children.

My key tip to anyone travelling by train is to pack light. Big wheely suitcases packed to the 23kg limit do not work on trains. It’s amazing how light you can pack with a bit of planning.

I love travelling by train, partly because it is such an adventure and I have to keep engaged, rather than air travel which is all a bit passive and having to queue.

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I'd love to go to Switzerland by train but it doesn't make economic sense. So it's fly to Geneva, railway station in the airport and on to Saas-Fee, Zinal, Nendaz etc by train and post bus.

After all it is free

Not meant to glow just sharing positive train ride experience. Took Eurostar Snow direct train Amsterdam/Brussels to BSM and back (3-10 Feb).

Was munching on a sandwich and looked with sympathy at looong car snakes heading both directions.

Even if loos were a bit messy on a 6h ride, it was still very nice overall experience.

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Another positive (and in retrospect, reading this topic, amateurish) experience. We achieved the goal of minimising the carbon footprint of the journey at a similar price and a similar level of hassle as flying. It takes longer but the travelling is more comfortable and sociable.

Four of us travelling to Oz for last week, trying to avoid planes and starting Glasgow, Edinburgh, Yorkshire, London (where we all stayed on the way out). I booked through tickets on Eurostar/TGV Inoui from St Pancras to Grenoble as soon as they were orderable as through-ticketed returns (which was 15th November, weeks after the Paris leg was out). Price was about £206 each, which rose to £224 by the time we'd all actually said "yes", plus £5 for the metro. We got a taxi from one of the resort firms for £320 return for four. We didn't bother with skis: (a) it wasn't clear what the correct interpretation of the Eurostar pages on sports-and-camping-equipment and luggage-services was, but it looked like £45 each way; and (b) I'm recovering from a broken collar bone and really didn't want the extra weight. We managed to get "black" rated skis (in other words, thoroughly intermediate, but otherwise fine) skis for £56 each and the ski shop was 1 minute from the apartment.

The through ticketing was important to minimise the risk in what were already logistically complex arrangements. The two on the east coast got hit by an LNER strike and had to convert to Megabus. Eurostar also informed us of a 15 minute delay on the London-Paris leg, which might have made the yomp between Gare du Nord and Gare de Lyon stressful, but they were happy to put us on an earlier train at no charge (and then our onward train was delayed by 45 but never mind).

Help!!

Trains to the Alps.... please oh chosen ones, what's your secret?

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