 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Back guy is at fault. Couldn't be more obvious.
OP please let me know where you ski so I can avoid that resort
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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IMV. The front guy is skiing with some lack of awareness - but the back guy is at fault for not anticipating what might happen. I think the back guy should have either slowed right down, or skied back behind the front guy towards the other side of the piste. I think he had time to react and give the D/Hill skier a wide berth.
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| red 27 wrote: |
| Back guy is at fault. Couldn't be more obvious. |
This.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Back guy at fault. Always assume that the person in front may do something unpredictable.
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To me this is a perfect illustration that "anyone below the skier has priority" is a good rule.
The back guy has 50m of piste on the right to pass safely in, yet chooses to try and squeeze through a gap that might not exist soon. The guy in front is skiing a bit erratically, as he has every right to, as long as he doesn't endanger anyone in front of him.
100% fault of the guy at the back. He's made an appalling choose of line to take, when he has all the room in the world to pass safely.
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yip. back guy a back bottom.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| red 27 wrote: |
| Back guy is at fault. Couldn't be more obvious. |
This. |
+1
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Open and shut case - the person at the back.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
Isn't this proof that "anyone below the skier has priority" is a bad rule? The front guy had no situational awareness and pulls a hard left and cuts up the back guy who was in the process of making a safe pass.
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I watched that carefully. It may be proof that the rule is a good rule. There are actually 3 rules in play, to quote from the FIS guidelines below and if they'd been applied there wouldn't have been this near incident.
That said, I would agree that the downhill skier should check behind before changing direction; but this isn't a rule and in this case he's moving at a good speed downhill not traversing across the piste at near right angles. I think closing the door at the edge of a piste is also bad practise; especially in this case where he's moving very fast himself and as you say with poor situational awareness. Ski school lines are a particuarl bugbear where you have 12 kids and an instructor strung out from one end of the slope to the other but they are generally slower moving. It's 2023, people are skiing faster, slopes are crowded due to fast lifts, some nuance needs to be applied to the rules.
=== the rules ===
Rule 2
Collisions usually happen because skiers or snowboarders are moving too fast, out of
control or have failed to see others. A skier or snowboarder must be able to stop, turn
and move within the ambit of his own vision
Rule 3
The skier or snowboarder in front has priority. The skier or snowboarder moving
behind another in the same direction must keep sufficient distance between himself
and the other skier or snowboarder so as to leave the preceding skier or
snowboarder enough space to make all his movements freely.
Rule 4
A skier or snowboarder who overtakes another is wholly responsible for completing
that manoeuvre in such a way to cause no difficulty to the skier or snowboarder being
overtaken. This responsibility rests with him until the overtaking manoeuvre has been
completed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Can’t see why this would even be debated - rear guy at fault, simple as it gets unless of course you own the slope.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Whose fault, or who’s at fault?
The guy at the back trying to overtake, because of the rule. Thats the rule and it’s easier for an uphill skier to avoid downhill skiers as people don’t tend to have eyes in the back of their heads. Better than demanding downhill skiers always look uphill rather than where they are going, excepting when setting off, imagine the carnage if that were the rule.
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| davidof wrote: |
| I think closing the door at the edge of a piste is also bad practise; especially in this case where he's moving very fast himself and as you say with poor situational awareness. |
Yep exactly..he was passing on the left edge of piste which in usual circumstances would be a safe pass. That is until the front guy did a Lewis Hamilton and totally shut the door without making any attempt to look, which to be fair to back guy is not would you would have expected with a wide piste to ski on. I don't think back guy deserves all the blame for this.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ster wrote: |
| imagine the carnage if that were the rule. |
Imagine the carnage if when driving you didn't need to check your mirrors before pulling out or overtaking on the roads? I actually think the rule is too simplistic, it basically means anyone down the hill can do whatever crazy sh*t they want even if it's cutting straight across someone else's path, when it's too late for uphill skier to do anything about it. OK maybe this isn't best example but there will be others where it's much more blatant.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| I don't think back guy deserves all the blame for this. |
You couldn’t be more wrong.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Pyramus, funny, I haven’t seen too many wing mirrors on sale in the ski shops I frequent. In lieu of those the current rule is probably best and rules need to be simple, as they cannot cater to ever eventuality.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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People are not cars and we don’t have mirrors. I wasn’t even aware it was a rule but even common sense tells me that the downhill person has priority as they won’t have eyes on the back of their heads.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| puddingdo wrote: |
| People are not cars and we don’t have mirrors. |
True, but God gave us necks. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Pyramus, I think so far you are in a minority of 11:1 does that answer your original question sufficiently?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Ski lots wrote: |
| @Pyramus, I think so far you are in a minority of 11:1 does that answer your original question sufficiently? |
Man I'm not skiing with you lot you'll cut everyone up royally. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Result.
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The back guy is at fault, obv
They are the only two on the piste and the chairlift is empty and not moving.
Wouldn’t surprise me to discover they know each other and are racing.
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Hey Lead Guy, look first or don’t do that because it can result in someone behind you hitting you. Who cares if it’s their fault? You still got hit. We all need to look out for each other.
Hey Following Guy, do a better job of picking where and whom to pass. I’m pretty sure that upon seeing that dude I’d have given him a wide berth. That sort of action is common and predictable when the lay of the land is that way, often getting back to the lift near the bottom.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Result.
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@Pyramus, I think so far you are in a minority of 11:1 does that answer your original question sufficiently?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| Hey Lead Guy, look first or don’t do that because it can result in someone behind you hitting you. |
Amen, someone with some sense.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rear skier could clearly have avoided collision - and is at fault.
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The overtaking guy is at fault. Simples.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| Hey Lead Guy, look first or don’t do that because it can result in someone behind you hitting you. |
Amen, someone with some sense. |
So the rest of us have no sense? Jeez!
These type of videos get posted on the forum occasionally, and this without doubt is the clearest case where the uphill skier was 100% responsible for the (non) collision. Sure, the guy downhill could have skied a bit more defensively, but it’s not his responsibility to do so, that rests in this case entirely with the uphill skier to avoid a collision on a wide and wide open piste in clear visibility. There’s just no doubt, no wiggle room as to which skier was in breach of the Skiers’ Code.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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They’re clearly racing each other. If the bloke at the back isn’t good enough to avoid the one at the front then he should take more lessons.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Pyramus, Fair play actually. I'm going to give you 7/10 for this. You've reeled in a very healthy net full, including myself. What appeared to be some pretty stinky bait has paid dividends.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Definitely blame the snowboarder
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The thread title is doing my head in.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Hurtle, I sympathise. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Hurtle, it hurts my eyes…
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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As an instructor once said to me, you have paid for your piste pass so you are entitled to use all the slope. If the bloke behind doesn't like that then it's his issue, not the guy in front, however frustrated he may feel.
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Back guy obviously at fault.
Front guy probably gets hit a lot though.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
Watch:
Who's fault?
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The one who can see ahead of themselves
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
True, but God gave us necks. |
People, especially beginners, cant be looking uphill at every turn initiation - it would probably result in more crashes esp on busy pistes.
I watched your video 4 times, and saw the same every time - it was obvious that the downhill skier was a bit unsure and not skiing "comfortably" so the uphill skier should have taken that into account, moderated their speed a smidge and then pass when the downhill skier had committed to a turn in one direction or the other.
It was an object lesson in why the uphill skier needs to take responsibility imv.
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The uphill skier was more concerned with taking a little bit of air off the small roll (just before he clipped the skier in front of him), straightlining the piste to get enough speed to jump a few centimetres off the snow. As a result of this he was then heading towards a gap which was rapidly closing, rather than rolling in to a right turn into the acres of space he had on skier’s right. Fortunately the closing speed between the two skiers wasn’t very high, so the skier behind had just enough time to twist his skis and slow down a little, simply clipping the rear of the skis of the guy in front of him. Neither of them lost complete control, neither of them fell over, so you could say ‘no harm, no foul’ and hope a lesson is learned. But to claim this is an illustration of why the rule that the downhill skier has priority is not appropriate is simply bonkers.
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FAQ
