 Poster: A snowHead
|
Rather than resurrect an old thread (https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=117063]) I thought I'd start a new one.
Same issue. Have got Look NX 12 Konect bindings. Forward pressure set up correctly according to indicator. DIN is slightly conservative by weight, spot on by height. Have skied on them like this - probably about 4-5 weeks. Always released when expected. But haven't fallen much.
On self-test standing on a carpet, I can quite easily get a toe release. However, leaning forward I can't get a heel release. Can anyone point to any good videos demonstrating a heel release self-test? Maybe I just have the technique wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Get them tested in a shop with a proper machine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Yes - will do that when I have a chance. But if anyone has a link to a video showing the correct technqiue - I'd like to take a look.
The Look techinical manual does recommend self-testing (in addition to other tests).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@frejul, what din are you on and what's your boot sole length in mm?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I have my bindings set to 7, my boots are short (290mm), I am resonably strong for my height/weight due to the job I do. I would find getting my heal bindings to release quite difficult. If I wind them up to 9 I can still kick the toes out. Heal release self test isn't a thing. I've seen people do it, but they were quite execptional athletes.....I've also seen people screw up and do it in the start gate of a race 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
| @frejul, what din are you on and what's your boot sole length in mm? |
DIN 6. Had a go in my old boots (313 mm ) and new boots (318 mm). Don't worry! Adjusted bindings to match new boots.
No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly.
Have been using DIN 6 for > 15 years on these and previous skis. Tempting fate but various crashes and no leg injuries during that time (can't say the same for my shoulder!!). I guess I could drop the DIN a smidgen as I'm not getting any younger!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Idris wrote: |
| I have my bindings set to 7, my boots are short (290mm), I am resonably strong for my height/weight due to the job I do. I would find getting my heal bindings to release quite difficult. If I wind them up to 9 I can still kick the toes out. Heal release self test isn't a thing. I've seen people do it, but they were quite execptional athletes.....I've also seen people screw up and do it in the start gate of a race |
Thanks. I'm certainly not an exceptional athlete!
The ease with which I can twist the toe out is quite reassuring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| frejul wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| @frejul, what din are you on and what's your boot sole length in mm? |
DIN 6. Had a go in my old boots (313 mm ) and new boots (318 mm). Don't worry! Adjusted bindings to match new boots. No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly...... |
@frejul, as 6 din and your sole length it takes 58Nm of force to release laterally from the toe but it takes 229Nm to release vertically from the heel - so nearly 4x the force! To do that on a carpet test you'd really have to 'dive' forward as hard as you can to get the heels to release.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
| frejul wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| @frejul, what din are you on and what's your boot sole length in mm? |
DIN 6. Had a go in my old boots (313 mm ) and new boots (318 mm). Don't worry! Adjusted bindings to match new boots. No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly...... |
@frejul, as 6 din and your sole length it takes 58Nm of force to release laterally from the toe but it takes 229Nm to release vertically from the heel - so nearly 4x the force! To do that on a carpet test you'd really have to 'dive' forward as hard as you can to get the heels to release. |
Thanks for explaining! Very interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
Related to this. Recent trip i noticed my ski was pinging off unrelated to fall. Took to local ski shop and forward pressure was adjusted. They also tested on a binding test machine my DIN was set at 7 on the bindings, whilst the rear was correct when tested , both toe pieces needed adjusting ( one to 8 and the other to 9! ) to give an actual DIN of 7 on the machine. Salomon alpine bindings 5 years old. Technician said springs weaken over time. Is this the same across all makes? / less likely on higher DIN ranges? Hadn't crossed my mind to get bindings properly tested! Though the forward pressure setting was probably the cause of the pre release having bindings actually set up accurately must help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| frejul wrote: |
No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly.
|
I don't know why you'd even expect them to release. I've not done the sums but it seems to me that the amount of force you could generate by leaning forward from a static position is likely to be significantly less that those generated when skiing. I'd be quite worried if mine released so easily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| frejul wrote: |
No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly.
|
I don't know why you'd even expect them to release. I've not done the sums but it seems to me that the amount of force you could generate by leaning forward from a static position is likely to be significantly less that those generated when skiing. I'd be quite worried if mine released so easily. |
Expectation comes from the Look bindings technical manual - which describes a "self-release" test involving leaning forward.
It seemed a bit odd to me too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
@frejul, here you go  |
Great! Will try that on snow in a couple of weeks. Much safer than in my living room falling into a bookshelf!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| frejul wrote: |
No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly.
|
I don't know why you'd even expect them to release. I've not done the sums but it seems to me that the amount of force you could generate by leaning forward from a static position is likely to be significantly less that those generated when skiing. I'd be quite worried if mine released so easily. |
Yeah, a little bit like Spyderjohn mentions above, the forces required are quite considerable.
Although my own skis are set correctly, if I hire anywhere almost the first thing I do - as well as checking the settings etc - is lean forward with my 94kg leaning heavily until the back of my skis lift up - non scientific and probably pointless I know, but it gives me some kind of comfort that they are not "loose".
Having some kind of unexpected release without putting a lot of real time pressure on skis scares the bejesus out of me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| GreenDay wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| frejul wrote: |
No problem with toe release but can't trigger heel release with either boot. I just suspect I'm not leaning forward correctly.
|
I don't know why you'd even expect them to release. I've not done the sums but it seems to me that the amount of force you could generate by leaning forward from a static position is likely to be significantly less that those generated when skiing. I'd be quite worried if mine released so easily. |
Yeah, a little bit like Spyderjohn mentions above, the forces required are quite considerable. |
Yes - appreciate that now. So it's weird that the Look manual suggests doing it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I think that's why you're supposed to wind the DIN down to minimum off season, so the springs get less 'wear' as they're not under load when sat in your attic. Which makes sense so I should try to remember to do it...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| B. wrote: |
| I think that's why you're supposed to wind the DIN down to minimum off season, so the springs get less 'wear' as they're not under load when sat in your attic. Which makes sense so I should try to remember to do it... |
I've seen this discussed, and dismissed, elsewhere. In theory a spring could eventually 'wear out' by frequent compression and extension causing metal fatigue, but keeping it under the same fixed pressure will not have any effect on its springiness. That was the conclusion I read elsewhere, more or less, which seems to makes sens, but if there's any metallurgists out there please feel free...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| B. wrote: |
| I think that's why you're supposed to wind the DIN down to minimum off season, so the springs get less 'wear' as they're not under load when sat in your attic. Which makes sense so I should try to remember to do it... |
I've seen this discussed, and dismissed, elsewhere. In theory a spring could eventually 'wear out' by frequent compression and extension causing metal fatigue, but keeping it under the same fixed pressure will not have any effect on its springiness. That was the conclusion I read elsewhere, more or less, which seems to makes sens, but if there's any metallurgists out there please feel free... |
Agree, nil effect that's likely measurable in reasonable way within these application.
A good comparison parallel would be a car engine valve spring, under compression it's entire lifetime, cycled (at half engine speed) through its operating range likely into millions of iteration....all without problem or consequential shift in attributes.
Steel, of correct metallurgical formulation is taken typically to near 1000 C then quenched to harden it, then stress relieved by "tempering" process to further give stable state and durability. There's not much that'll shift it after that process.
More depth herehttps://www.lindeus.com/blog/2023/metal-processing-hardening for those interested.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Great, so totally due to laziness I've been doing the right thing. Love it when it works out like that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
