 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Why are lift tix in the US sooooo much more expensive than in Europe (Alps)? I find this so odd. It's like 4 times the cost in the US. For example, Ischghl in Austria, which is a massive modern resort is around 70 euros per day. Park City in the US which is similar in size, is like $300 a day. Insane. Clearly, skiing is more for the wealthy in the US and skiing in Europe is totally ok for the average Joe... fascinating
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
skiing in Europe is totally ok for the average Joe...
|
I wouldn't say so. A British family earning the average wage would be unlikely to be able to afford a ski holiday. And most US skiers don't pay anything like that much per day.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Look at your average large resort in the Rockies vs. the same in the Alps. At least 4 times more expensive for the lift tix.. Day rates
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| eaglesandsnowboarding wrote: |
| Look at your average large resort in the Rockies vs. the same in the Alps. At least 4 times more expensive for the lift tix.. Day rates |
I went to Steamboat Springs back in the 90s, just checked their lift pass prices and the cheapest week for the rest of the season costs more than a thousand dollars. WTF?! Prices for next week are 1600 dollars 
Is this normal? Or are there discounts somehow? Surely there must be, nobody is paying that much?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
No one in their right mind buys day tickets in the US. I have travelled there often for skiing and paid an average of about 50USD per ski day when equipped with a Mountain Collective or Ikon pass.
North American skiing (the avi controlled off piste) is simply awesome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Some of the US ski resorts had adapted the airline model. To put it bluntly, they charge “whatever the market will bear”.
But with a bit of planing, the cost can drop significantly. “Subsidized” by the unwary who actually pay the “rack rate”
It’s like reading the note on the back of the hotel to find their nightly rate is $500 dollars. But you only paid $100.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@sbooker, @abc, you are right, but many Alpine resorts also have discounts on their "published" rates, sometimes well over 50% off. That would drop the Alpine lift pass spend to under 50USD/day too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think French resorts are going in the direction of elastic prices too - that's what the discounts are about. For ages I've been mystified as to why lift pass prices were the same in the busiest weeks as they were in the quietest weeks, whilst the cost of accommodation - and airfares, and eurotunnel tickets responded to the elasticities of demand. It makes commercial sense to charge market clearing prices.
It is not "insane" for US resorts to charge high prices if there are some people who pay them, either because they're not aware of the deals, or because they can afford it, and can't be bothered to make up their mind months in advance about where they want to ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@denfinella, North American ski resort pass cost had always been higher than the Alps. This has been the case ever since I started skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@eaglesandsnowboarding,
1) Because you gouge the punters for as much as possible.
2) Insurance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@abc, sure. I wasn't suggesting otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@denfinella, can you share the link with discounted tickets (up to 50% off) for Lake Tahoe (Heavenly, Northstar or Kirkwood) for 7 days in February ?
I do not have Epic Pass which is not available for purchase since early December.
I am aware that there used to be discounts with local ski shops, gas stations, Costco, local tourist offices and so on but could not find any in last 7 years. Now Ikon Pass (Alterra), Epic Pass (Vail Resorts) and Mountain Collective (which is a "sampler" pass for 6 (you get 7th/bonus day if buying early) days of skiing at Alterra owned resorts offer great deals and some smaller and independently owned and operated resorts offer somewhat cheaper multi day lift tickets (ie. Whitefish at €400/6 out of 7days)
Buying early (usually in April for the following season) gives you the best price on season pass, prices are raised every few months until they stop selling in early December at which point you have to purchase daily lift ticket. Northstar in Lake Tahoe charges $1316 (€1200, £1035) for 7 day ticket
Different business model in NA, big corporations own multiple resorts and want to lock in early season pass sales for the following season, that way they are weather proof in case of bad snow year and can adjust (maximize) their profits in case of great snow year since they also own majority of accommodation in resort. Skiing is very expensive in the US and this set up greatly benefits locals while somebody who travels to ski (flight, rental car, hotel, food on the mountain) is much better off hoping on a plane and flying to Europe. That is what I do.
Skiing in North America is awe$ome, agree !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Cheapski, err I have no idea about where to find US lift pass discounts. I was referring specifically to the Alps!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@denfinella, sure. My point was the cost of skiing (not lessons) at Europe and North America doesn’t have to be that different. Euro ticket rates are great. $100Aud for a full days great entertainment is a bargain. For some perspective it costs that to hire a jet ski or go kart for under and hour here in Oz.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
I feel like we have had this thread so many times.
The two continents use different pricing models. The north America model encourages people to buy "cheap" season tickets before the season starts. Think of it how you might buy a flight when they first come out in Europe, as if you wait till the last minute you will get gouged, it's no different. The multi resort passes, like epic and iKON, are actually unbelievable value. Of course not much use if you just want a couple of days skiing per year.
My 1 week pass for tignes is £300 this year (+ another £30 for tourist tax!). Last year's spring pass at lake Louise was around £350 for unlimited skiing between March 1 to May 7. I know which is better value!
You could argue it's not even fair to directly compare prices as the experience is somewhat different. For example personally I'd happily pay a bit more for the in bounds avy control as found in N America.
Insurance for what? When you buy a lift pass in N America you waive the resort of any liability, including negligence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
50% off daily rate for Big Sky is $115 ... how is that cheap ?
Walk up daily lift ticket (without any discounts) in Val D'isere is $70
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
50% off daily rate for Big Sky is $115 ... how is that cheap ?
Walk up daily lift ticket (without any discounts) in Val D'isere is $70
|
You are comparing the absolute worst value for money lift pass (single day) in N America with a single day pass in Europe which are much more affordable due to to different pricing strategies.
Really, who is going all the way to big sky for just 1 day?
iKON pass - around £800. Would get you 7 days in Big sky. Then when you get back to Europe 7 days in zermatt.
7 days in Val d £300. 7 days in zermatt £450. Pretty insignificant difference compared to going to big sky and using iKON pass (<£5 per day).
But with the iKON you'd still have 7 days more free skiing at kitzbuhel, 7 days in Chamonix, 7 days at dolomiti superski.
Of course it's not going to work out for everyone. Some people will get better deal with one or the other. But again, I'm paying £300 +£30 tourist tax for tignes this year, and and a spring pass for lake Louise was £350 last year. Not a huge difference (first week of march is prime for lake Louise anyway, so it's not like it's some terrible time to visit), and you can do 10+ days for that price.
So I think it's a little oversimplified to simply say lift passes are more or less in one or the other. It really depends on many factors what will be best value for money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
50% off daily rate for Big Sky is $115 ... how is that cheap ?
Walk up daily lift ticket (without any discounts) in Val D'isere is $70
|
You are comparing the absolute worst value for money lift pass (single day) in N America with a single day pass in Europe which are much more affordable due to to different pricing strategies.
Really, who is going all the way to big sky for just 1 day?
|
I’m not going to defend the current “airline-ticket-like” pricing strategy of some of the big resorts in US.
In North America, skiing is more a sport rather than a recreation. So yes, who’s going to Big Sky to ski just one day? Who only plays basketball 1 day a year? Or cycle only 1 day per year? For the majority who takes skiing as a sport. They’re getting the cheap season pass and get to ski lots of days for not much. If I already own my own skis, what do I care how much it cost to rent skis? 
But the truth is, yes, there’re occasionally some people who want to just do it for the heck of it, or just for once or twice a year. This new pricing scheme is turning them away. Fortunately, not all the resorts jump onto that pricing scheme. There’re still a lot of mountains charging considerable less for a day of skiing. For those who are only doing it 1 day a year, they can choose to go to those mountains.
money1
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Firstly, as already pointed out, the US model is designed to heavily encourage the purchase of season/annual passes which are actually pretty good value. I used to travel a lot to San Francisco and, even though it was just for weekends whilst I was there, it proved to be much cheaper to buy a season pass for Tahoe (which included most of the resorts there) than buy a two day pass in one of the resorts each time.
Secondly, look at the number of personnel on the pistes in the US resorts. US resorts will have people managing the queue at busy pinch points, policing slow zones and generally around the slopes offering support to skiers who are lost or in trouble. Hard to be exact but it’s an order of magnitude higher staff numbers.
Thirdly, the inbounds/outbounds control model vs slopes/pistes in Europe. They have to secure the entire inbounds area rather than just the identified runs as in Europe. That means more work and therefore more people needed to do it.
So, when you put those three together you do end up with a much higher price but, as mentioned here, there are lots of ways to reduce it. Most of the hotels offer discounted tickets if you book a week for example plus there are the IKON and EPIC schemes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Itis also worthwhile to check the individual resorts for their specific pass programs. For example, Snowbird (Utah) offers a 5 day "sampler" pass for $500. Not cheap, but not bad by North American standards. The only problem is that you must purchase them before the season begins, so you must plan ahead, and put your money out early.
I really like the European ski business model much more then the US business model. That's why I am skiing in the Alps this season!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Because you gouge the punters for as much as possible
|
I find this language rather silly, unless it comes from somebody with a principled and consistent philosophy of opposition to capitalist free enterprise. I have some problems myself with that particular way of organising economic relationships in society but other models seem to have their problems too!
One classic way to make "capitalism" more fair is to ensure fair and competitive markets and in the UK, at any rate, there are state-funded institutions tasked with achieving that. I don't know much about the US system, but at all levels, and in all sorts of ways, my understanding is that it leaves individuals more at the mercy of market forces and competition than is the case in many European states.
On Snowheads we often see accusations of "price gouging" in relation to high prices for flights, accommodation, etc during school holidays. That emotive language strikes me as equally silly. How else would critics of "price gouging" propose to ration resources for which there is excess demand?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Thirdly, the inbounds/outbounds control model vs slopes/pistes in Europe. They have to secure the entire inbounds area rather than just the identified runs as in Europe. That means more work and therefore more people needed to do it. |
But US areas are often much smaller (in terms of number of pistes and vertical drop) than areas in The Alps. And Alps' ski areas can have dozens more lifts (and therefore loads more lift staff) than US areas, where 4 or 5 lifts can be seen as a lot.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I would not mind if some European stations move to a US model, mostly because I want to ski sidepiste, out of bounds, etc without having to hire a guide. Size is less important to me than quality and variety. I enjoy piste skiing but after a certain point it gets monotonous.
I would also love a nice, warm base lodge where I could boot up, stash gear, eat my own lunch etc. I do like the cheap European day and week rates, but on a certain level, you get what you pay for.
I suspect we will soon see a Euro-centric version of an Icon or Epic pass; most of us have noticed that European rates are starting to climb significantly. As noted above, if you ski even 3 weeks a year in Europe at a largish station, that's the price of an early-bird US multi-statation pass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
I would also love a nice, warm base lodge where I could boot up, stash gear, eat my own lunch etc.
|
Usually free microwaves and boiling water too.Most of the n American resorts also do free tours where a local shows you around and gives you some tips for the area. Some nice little touches.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
A five year old skiing next Saturday at Steamboat would have to pay $222 for the day. They'd ski for free in most resorts in the Alps!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
Thirdly, the inbounds/outbounds control model vs slopes/pistes in Europe. They have to secure the entire inbounds area rather than just the identified runs as in Europe. That means more work and therefore more people needed to do it.
|
But US areas are often much smaller (in terms of number of pistes and vertical drop) than areas in The Alps. And Alps' ski areas can have dozens more lifts (and therefore loads more lift staff) than US areas, where 4 or 5 lifts can be seen as a lot. |
The ski areas are measured in different ways km of piste v total area able to ski - as mentioned they avi control all their ski area not just the trails they have.
Regards the lifts, most of the NA ski areas lease the land from the Forestry Service, and so have to limit the number of lifts. This is no bad thing really as it minimises the envirmental impact and maximises the ski area each lift serves. In Europe its not uncommon to have one lift for only one or two pistes.
Kicking Horse and Revelstoke - its possible to access all their lift accessed ski area from one lift. There are others to make life easier though.
The business models and running of the each continents ski areas are different thats all. Although you may find Europe's starting to change slowly 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
let’s just be real here. skiing in the US is for the very upper middle class and wealthy folk and the European skiing is for your average Joe Blows in Europe. simple
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Kicking Horse and Revelstoke - its possible to access all their lift accessed ski area from one lift.
|
Not quite true. Kicking horse gondola allows access to around 70% of the resort, and the stairway chair allows access to the rest. Personally I love the simplicity of it, but I think it's quite polarising, a lot don't seem to like it.
Revelstoke you really need all three lifts (gondola, stoke, and ripper) to access everything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
let’s just be real here. skiing in the US is for the very upper middle class and wealthy folk and the European skiing is for your average Joe Blows in Europe. simple
|
It's a huge generalisation. There are a lot of little community "mom and pops style" hills all over N America. They offer a very cheap intro to skiing.
I do think there is a difference in general outlook to skiing though. For Brits skiing tends to be a week holiday, which for some is as much about the views and food as it is the actual skiing. For n Americans it tends to be a predominantly weekend activity driving up to a resort from home, and there is a stronger focus on the skiing - finding powder, challenging lines etc.
For anyone living close to a resort epic and iKON passes offer incredible value. (Although some smaller resort lift passes are even cheaper anyway). Plenty of Brits spend more per person on their 1 week trip than an epic pass costs - if you live within driving distance of a resort accomodation and travel costs are fairly insignificant.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I'm not referring to the mom/pop type hills at all. I mean the mid to large sized resorts. Rockies vs. Alps. a world of difference in price, big time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
Kicking Horse and Revelstoke - its possible to access all their lift accessed ski area from one lift.
|
Not quite true. Kicking horse gondola allows access to around 70% of the resort, and the stairway chair allows access to the rest. Personally I love the simplicity of it, but I think it's quite polarising, a lot don't seem to like it.
Revelstoke you really need all three lifts (gondola, stoke, and ripper) to access everything. |
True I was just generalising really - but managed quite well before the Ripper went in - had to hoof it out though 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| eaglesandsnowboarding wrote: |
| I'm not referring to the mom/pop type hills at all. I mean the mid to large sized resorts. Rockies vs. Alps. a world of difference in price, big time. |
You started this thread for no other reason but to rant. No amount of reasoning would enlighten you, as evident.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 22-01-24 10:51; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| eaglesandsnowboarding wrote: |
| I'm not referring to the mom/pop type hills at all. I mean the mid to large sized resorts. Rockies vs. Alps. a world of difference in price, big time. |
My closest hill (excluding the north shore mountains) is the not that small Whistler-Blackcomb.
It costs me more in gas than it does for my lift ticket per day to go skiing there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Thirdly, the inbounds/outbounds control model vs slopes/pistes in Europe. They have to secure the entire inbounds area rather than just the identified runs as in Europe. That means more work and therefore more people needed to do it. |
But US areas are often much smaller (in terms of number of pistes and vertical drop) than areas in The Alps. And Alps' ski areas can have dozens more lifts (and therefore loads more lift staff) than US areas, where 4 or 5 lifts can be seen as a lot. |
True; but also misleading. The area that they are policing is almost always larger. In Europe they’re policing the area only of the pistes, not all the bits in between as in the US.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@abc ...I just simply find it fascinating that skiing is for the wealthy in the US and for normal folk in Europe (generally). That's all. Heck, you could fly from a major US city to Munich (probably direct), for example, then drive from 2-4 hours to an ENDLESS amount of mid to large sized amazing ski resorts. You'd save a SHXTLOAD on lift tix clearly and even accommodations would even be much cheaper. If someone is coming from the east coast to the Rockies it takes all day to get to a resort, door to door. Same if you were going to Europe from the US, all day, door to door. If you're loaded, then none of this matters anyway 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| abc wrote: |
| eaglesandsnowboarding wrote: |
| I'm not referring to the mom/pop type hills at all. I mean the mid to large sized resorts. Rockies vs. Alps. a world of difference in price, big time. |
You started this thread for no other reason but to rant. No amount of reasoning would enlighten you, as evident. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Waste of time to cross the pond, regardless of cost.
|
Probably true, but I would certainly reccomend that everyone tries at least one trip to Japan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@johnE ..doesnt it take all day to get to some place in the Rockies if you live a flight or 2 away?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
