Shell Jacket or Insulated?

A snowHead

I'm trying to convince my husband to let go of his Rossignol Jacket that he's apparently had since he was 15. Not kidding, I think Rossignol changed its branding two times since then Laughing

He is more of an off-pister and is looking for a jacket that will last him another 10 years, hopefully Laughing

Most of our off-pister friends recommend buying a shell jacket and layering. But we are used to having insulated ski jackets and getting a shell seems counter-intuitive for some reason. Arcteryx is the brand he has in mind. So, what would you guys recommend, shell or insulated?

For me also, I have a puffer-type jacket which I got as a gift but I feel like it's more stylish than it is technical. Not going to lie, I like having stylish gear but the waist is elastic and it keeps getting up my waist and frankly, driving me crazy. It's also not ideal on wet days as it seems to get heavier as it takes water in. So, I'm also looking for a gore-tex jacket. Would love any recommendation.

A snowHead

I've always gone for a gore-tex shell, but the last few seasons our ski school uniform has been padded (Avalanche brand, IIRC) and I've got used to it. In cold conditions there's not a lot in it, TBH, although the padded trousers do, I confess, perform better in serious cold than shell ones. When it's warmer though... well we do actually have a quilted inner jacket that can be worn instead, but even then one can get awfully sweaty when it's March and Sunny.

I've just bought a new jacket myself, as it happens, gone for a Decathlon (shell) one for the first time, about half the price I've paid for the last two or three jackets (Mammut, Häglofs, etc.) which themselves were always around half list price. Seems to be just as good quality and the impermeable membrane specs are at least as good as real Gore-tex. Happy with it so far, it's a 'freeride' model with plenty of pockets in the right places, vents, and enough space to fit multiple layers under it if needed.

EDIT: It's this one, in case you're interested.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I don't think there is a "Right" answer.

If you ski multiple weeks and/or in multiple temperatures (ie. Jan and March), then a shell is more versatile.

If most skiing is done in the colder months and he feels the cold, then insulated is fine....also, remember that there is heavily insulated and lightly insulated.

A base layer that has decent wicking properties is vital; and an outer layer that has breathability and is snow-proof (surface treated with water repellent coating [DWR]), is what matters. Goretex is advisable if skiing in the rain.

Arcterx makes high quality stuff.

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Shell and layers. Hood / helmet fit is important

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Is this a serious a question, or some sort of click bait? rolling eyes

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Shell. 90% of time its t-shirt/fleece/shell or base/fleece/shell. When super cold then it becomes base/fleece/puffer/shell. I have Patagonia Untracked but tried Arcteryx Sabre which is also really good.

This is actually quite annoying for children though as most child jackets are insulated and then it ends up being boiling hot.

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@Chaletbeauroc, Thanks so much for the recommendation, I’ve had Decathlon in mind for a while to give it a try while not breakinf the bank.

@Old Fartbag, That’s our main issue, we usually ski within the colder months and our local ski resort gets quite cold, so we grew up with wearing insulated. Also, that’s why, we don’t have many people choosing shells around, other than backcountry skiers. So, @Mollerski, obviously this is not a clickbait, I’m asking a genuine question Smile

Especially when really good gear costs a lot, It’s best to take advice.

@puddingdo, thanks for the advice, when looking for a long lasting gear,Arcteryx and Patagonia comes up a a lot. Although I’m wondering if there is a big difference between Rush and Sabre in Arcteryx. We’ll have to check out and see I guess.

After all it is free

@defnekasrat, You'll receive a stack of replies, listing a shedload of different brands and types and you'll end up no nearer being able to make a decision than when you posted the question. The choice is all your's, you'll have to make it. Only know your specific requirements from the item and only you know your budget.

@defnekasrat, I've just purchased a good quality shell jacket with the view that I shall also be able to wear it when doing non-skiing activities in bad weather.

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From what I understand, Sabre AR is regular goretex and Rush is pro. You have to get Sabre SV to get gtx pro. Rush is also supposedly more for off piste. Patagonia don’t have anything gtx pro. That said, id be happy with any of these and probably wouldn’t notice the difference!

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@Ray Zorro, This also is super important too, we ski around 20 days per season and then the jacket just waits its turn until next season. that’s why I’m content with my puffer as I can wear it om cold city days but it’s lousy as a ski jacket. Which brand did you get if you don’t mind me asking?

@Mollerski, this thread has helped me already, so it’s okay but thanks anyways! Little Angel

@defnekasrat, I bought this one... https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/mountain-equipment-mens-lhotse-jacket-A1115182.html?colour=137

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hard to go past a quality flannel shirt for most days imo

A snowHead

And insulated jacket from 30? years ago may not be the same as an insulated jacket today. Materials have changed, and it may have lost some of its insulating properties over time, with wear and washing. I would go with a shell, especially for off-piste as that tends to be a bit more active anyway. No need to pay loads for gore-tex pro, other brands’ membranes are just as good. Pack an extra layer if it’s a bit chilly.

A snowHead

I'm presuming by off piste you don't mean a lot of hiking/skinning, else shell is the obvious choice.

Shell is much more flexible. Also much more useful as can be worn all through the year. While arcteryx and Patagonia do make great jackets, they are expensive, You can likely find something perfectly adequate for your needs at a significantly lower cost. For example you really don't need goretex.

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@Scarlet, 15 years, but honestly, they don't build them that good anymore! It just started falling apart after 15 years for the first time. Thanks for the recommendation!

@JayRo, I would say lift-served off-piste skiing as we usually ski in Turkey and the culture is yet to shift towards touring, skinning, etc. But we try to do guided tours whenever we are in Europe! Thanks so much for the recommendation!

@boarder2020, This is the biggest reason I wanted some advice because articles online are super insistent about gore-tex but it's hard to tell if it's an advertisement or not. Good to hear that some people don't see it as a must, that opens a lot more options. It really takes a lot of research to buy any ski gear in this economy for sure Laughing

@Ray Zorro, Thanks for the link, looks solid!

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@defnekasrat, Rush is lighter than Sabre and is Goretex Pro; other than that both are 3L Goretex and pretty bomb proof. One thing I would say with Arcteryx is that they change the 'fit' between seasons - for example (boringly) the crotch on the current Sabre pant is pretty high compared to previous versions; this may not suit some. Best to try 2x sizes before you buy if you can - their delivery service is excellent and returns are free . . .check out the Outlet site as there are good end of season deals on there compared to the normal RRP

Personally think insulated jackets are a bit 80s although you can obvs still buy them (Arcteryx do them) especially if you are skiing in the States/Nordics where conditions are consistently -10 and under. For most euro skiing a synthetic insulated hoody (eg Arcteryx Atom / Patagonia Nano) and a shell work much better (and very much like an insulated jacket) but with the ability to swop out the hoody for a fleece / wicking t shirt should conditions change

I love both brands (and have too many Patagonia Nano Air hoodies - they are possibly the most versatile item of clothing I own and I wear them both casually in the UK and for skiing) but would say Arc shells are significantly better than Patagonia's 3L offerings

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There is a lot of good looking Adidas Gore-Tex gear on sportsdirect ATM.

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@musher, Yes I was looking at some of the Adi Terrex stuff for my daughter on SD at massively reduced prices; had a 'feel' in Go Outdoors (who also sell it) the other day and it looks good quality. A bit '3 Stripe' bling for me however for the discount looked good. . . . .Sports Direct can be good value - for noobs / those with kids their Nevica stuff easily competes and is better priced than the other usual value retailers - just don't like the organisation in general and having to pay post for returns even on a large order!

After all it is free

@Belch,
I've had a Terrex jacket since 2012, it's been great.

I feel like I've gone through enough combos to have a reasonable opinion on this. Gotta be a shell and mid layer. TBH, I usually ski in march and most of the time don't even use the shell unless it's snowing. If you go for a pretty windproof mid layer like an Atom or a Proton (those are Arc, other brands are available...) then they're windproof enough that they're generally fine over a base layer, or even over a base layer and a really lightweight mid layer.

You can also layer a puffer under the shell if it's cold but I generally run way too hot for that, my partner does it all the time though.

My main issue isn't the performance, really, it's the feel of a decent mid-layer as it moves much more easily, it stretches and it doesn't make that scratchy sound as it passes over itself. I have some soft-shells that are somewhere between and a good solution if it's not really wet.

As someone else mentioned, I wear all my stuff all winter, the only thing I don't wear is the salopettes. I wore the Atom to the gym this morning and I had the shell on last week on my bike when it was pissing down. I'm sat here in a base layer and ski socks right now. If you get decent, versatile layers then you'll get plenty of wear, and value, out of em.

I buy Arc stuff as the fit is almost perfect for my shape (and it lasts, i've got some fleeces that are 10 years old) but Black Diamond is good for me too. Patagonia, not so much, but you'll find what works for your shape.

Sorry, long post...

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I have skied in shell jackets for the last 15 years or so, and would never go back to padded. My current jacket is Gore-tex Pro by Sweet Protection (bought half price from Sports Pursuit). I recall one year having to wait an hour in the rain for a bus to take us back to our resort when a storm knocked out the electricity supply to the lifts. Everyone I was with was soaked and shivering. I was warm, dry and comfortable

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@Mollerski, my husband is super convinced on the Arcteryx and the insulated ones are out of the question after reading all the replies. the Sabre seems to suit his needs more. Sadly, it's not sold in our country, so he'll check it out on his next work trip. I'm hoping he'll check out one for me as well because I feel like it seems like an investment in a way.

But I might try out some of the brands that we have here in Turkey too, or just wait until our trip to Alta Badia to check out some of the stores there. I really like Sweet Protection and Patagonia aesthetically but I'm still dreaming about the Sabre pink/red ones for a while Very Happy

But definitely, switching to a shell after my puffer jacket. Technicality over fashion from now on, especially since we started skiing much much more in the last couple of years Smile

I also think I'm layering wrong underneath as well, but first I'll have to check how I'm holding up with a shell jacket to pinpoint my problems.

@Belch, thank you much for explanation! this really helped us a lot!

If you can't get certain brands in your country you could look at mail forwarders like Stackry. I've used them a lot to get stuff from the US, there's EU equivalents. You need to know what you're buying as I can't see returns being very easy.

You know it makes sense.

@B., great advice! I found some alternative companies like that as well. thanks!

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Zips!
The breathable fabrics are ok but they don't allow you to dump heat quickly.

Zipped vents can be opened or closed very quickly with far less faff than adding or removing a layer.

Also, a layer under the jacket with a front zip allows rapid cooling on gondolas etc.

There seems to be an obsession with base layers that "wick" sweat away from the skin and a big no against cotton because cotton loses its insulation if it is soaked with sweat

If your base layers have become soaked with sweat, then you have screwed up your heat management, vents & zips should be opened as soon as sweating starts to dump the excess heat / evaporate the sweat before base layers get soaked. Breathable fabrics simply cannot give the level of ventilation needed for this.

A snowHead

A snowHead

A good shell and appropriate layers will always beat an insulated Jacket(unless you are climbing Everest or traveling to the N or S pole!). Adjust your layers and accessories (gloves, hats, neck-warmers Hoods etc ) to suit. Zip up or down pit zips and leg vents as required. Like the post above from B., I use all of my kit for other purposes as well. I have been in Val d'Isere and La Rosiere for the last 2 weeks and have used a 2L Burton goretex shell every day. Alternating a mid layer puffer or cotton hoodie depending on temps. Have dealt with -20C to +5C no problem.

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Irrespective of the Goretex shell / merino layers I wear 90% of the time (they are the best 'all round' solution for changeable / unpredictable conditions) in terms of effective heat management and comfort softshells do work a lot more effectively IMO and given the choice would wear these all the time; however they're just not practical in deep / wet snow and can become cold at altitude when static . . .save them for spring skiing only these days

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I prefer a thin mid layer and insulated jacket with pit zips. I run hot, so opening the zip allows cool air to bypass the insulation and hit my thin mid layer, cooling me down quicker, and saves the faff of adding/removing layers all the time.

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I bought a hilfiger shell jacket nothing to do with skiing and have a puffer waistocoat when its sunny and a full puffer when cold. Brilliant you can scrunch up the waistcoat if you get to hot and bung it in the rucksack.

After all it is free

Shell jacket definitely. Look at Rab as well as Arcteryx. I have a Sabre 5 years old and it’s great. It comes with a price though. You could buy a good goretex or goretex pro jacket non ski much cheaper. Ski shells get you a lift pass and snow skirt.

I'd say if he's more into off piste he'd be better with a shell, unless he 'runs cold'.

I can't say I've ever run out of layer and felt cold at the end of a 20min hike with my skis on my back, but semi-naked and still hot!

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Shell definitely.

Two key reasons;

Firstly, flexibility. You can layer up, or not, to suit the conditions and activity. If your other half is doing off piste then he’s presumably got a backpack so it’s super easy to put an alternative layer in there and then you can deal with almost anything.

Secondly, durability. If you’re going to keep a jacket for ten years then you’re going to need to wash/reproof the DWR a few times. This is possible but an absolute pain to do with an insulated jacket and super easy with a shell.

Personally, I have the Arcteryx Rush and, when it does expire, I’ll buy another one as I’ve had three in succession now and they’ve all lasted 150+ ski days.

Help!!

Shell Jacket or Insulated?

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