 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm wondering if using the 88deg setting on my edging tool will resul in something noticeable? So instead of 89.5 = 90.0-.50 it will be 87.5 = 88.0 -.50
Just curious. Seams more common in the skiing world and with boards.
Backstory - I picked up an old board with a 26.1 cm waist and a large side cut. I rode it for a few days a few seasons back and it felt much slower edge to edge than my other 25-25.5 width boards.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’ve no idea what it will do on a board, sorry, but I can attest that a 1 degree change on skis is very noticeable so I would imagine it would be similarly so on a board.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@earl, so are you saying that you have a 0.5 degree base edge angle on your board? If so, that's pretty unforgiving as most boards have a 1 to 1.5 degree base edge angle.
The base edge angle determines how much you have to tip the board/ski to engage the edge so if your board does have a 0.5 base angle then it'll be more 'precise', ie engage sooner so faster edge to edge that a board with a higher angle but with less forgiveness/wobble room so easier to 'catch an edge'.
The side edge angle determines how how 'cut' you get in the snow so the steeper the side edge the more cut/edge grip you'll get - but you'll only benefit from that on hardpack/ice as if the snow has any give in it then the whole sidewall engages the snow as opposed to just the metal edge.
If your board has a 90 degree side edge and 0.5 base then the subtended angle (which is never referred to by techs as it caused confusion) is an obtuse angle of 90.5 degrees (not 90.5) which isn't great for edge grip on hardpack/ice. Steepening the side edge angle to 88 and retaining the 0.5 base will give a subtended acute angle of 88.5 (not 87.5) which is going to give a lot better edge grip on hardpack/ice. But as the base edge angle remains the same there's no difference in how much you have to tip the board to engage the edge.
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It took a few readings but I think I get that.
Sounds like on hardpack I'm complaining that I'm getting on edge too early. Where what I want the.chance to get my center of gravity over the edge a bit more before it bites. So - increase the base angle. I picked up a 1.5 base guide from a snowshow years ago. Always been to afraid to use it. Give it a blast now.
I'll also treat it to a 88 side as well to keep it the edge acute.
Is that right?
Also
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@earl, yep, that's right but I wouldn't go straight to a 1.5 base without trying a 1 first which I'm sure you'll be fine with.
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my board (an old Völkl) had 0.0-90
i made it my self 0.0-89 and i saw a better grip in hard packed snow
btw mostly the boards comes with 0.0 or 0.5 base edge. and honestly i a new board has more than 0.5 then i will send it back
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| earl wrote: |
I'm wondering if using the 88deg setting on my edging tool will resul in something noticeable? So instead of 89.5 = 90.0-.50 it will be 87.5 = 88.0 -.50
Just curious. Seams more common in the skiing world and with boards.
Backstory - I picked up an old board with a 26.1 cm waist and a large side cut. I rode it for a few days a few seasons back and it felt much slower edge to edge than my other 25-25.5 width boards. |
how big are your boots?
it is normal that you feel it slower by edge changing because it is wider
my board has 27.8 Waist Width with boots 27.5 MP
the first days i thought it is impossible to change edge
dont geht what you mean 89.5 = 90.0-.50
90 ist the side edge and 0.5 the base edge. Thats all. If you made it from 90 to 89 or even 88, it will not change you pace by changing edges.
The board will still have WW 26.1
Btut the grip will be better
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| turms2 wrote: |
| ........btw mostly the boards comes with 0.0 or 0.5 base edge. and honestly i a new board has more than 0.5 then i will send it back |
Never heard so much bollox in my life! Zero base edge is unrideable/unskiable. 0.5 base on a board would be a slalom race board used with hard boots and SL/GS skis. WC level slalom skiers may go less than 0.5 but not zero.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks SJ.
I now understand my calculations above were all backwards.
Makes me think unless you are grinding rails all day they is really no use for the 90deg edge setting.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| turms2 wrote: |
| ........btw mostly the boards comes with 0.0 or 0.5 base edge. and honestly i a new board has more than 0.5 then i will send it back |
Never heard so much bollox in my life! Zero base edge is unrideable/unskiable. 0.5 base on a board would be a slalom race board used with hard boots and SL/GS skis. WC level slalom skiers may go less than 0.5 but not zero. |
ok i will not open a controversary conversation about this.
But you could check your base edge. I dont think it is more than 0.5
And many boards are with zero base edge
Unfortunately i can not upload pics...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Jones website is bollux too - just like many other manufacturers websites that have incorrect info about their own products. I've got two brand new Jones boards in my shop for waxing and they're both 1,89.
A zero base edge angle is unrideable/unskiable!
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You know it makes sense.
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for the families skis i do not do anything with the edges. Only wax
But for my board i made the side egde to 89
But honestly i find 1 or more for board two much.
A board mit a Waist width e.g. 26.2 need mehr work for changing from one edge to another.
I dont think that it is compareblae with skies
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| turms2 wrote: |
| for the families skis i do not do anything with the edges. Only wax |
Are you saying you don't sharpen the edges or you don't change the edge angle? Do you know what their factory setting is?
| turms2 wrote: |
But for my board i made the side egde to 89
But honestly i find 1 or more for board two much. |
Too much in what way?
| turms2 wrote: |
| A board mit a Waist width e.g. 26.2 need mehr work for changing from one edge to another. |
You mean servicing or riding? I don't understand the problem tbh.
| turms2 wrote: |
| I dont think that it is compareblae with skies |
Why?
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Poster: A snowHead
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i wax the skies 4-5 pro saison (or more), but i give them to a profi for the edges.
An edge with 89 and 0 will have a better grip in hard packed snow als a 89 with 1 , but of course it will be more easy to cathch an edge
If a board hat 1.5 base edge, you have to use more angulation to have a better grip. And if the bord is wide enought, then it will be more difficult (i mean riding)
With skies is easy to go from one edge to the other (as long as you have the technikc of course)
If you ride a wide board, it will be more difficult. And if your base edge is more than 1, then you need much more to press in order to to grip with the edges.
If you try a bataleon board with 3b technology, and then a normal camber board you will understand what i mean.
With bataleon you have to put mehr work in order to ride on the edge or go from one edge to another
But to be honest all these are theory. In the real world you will find a differnece between different edges, only if you have the top slope / snow conditions and you can carve like Ryan Knapton.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@turms2, forgive me as I know English isn't your first language and I don't wish to tell you what to do, I am just trying to help.... but as @spyderjon says - and he does this stuff for a living - a base edge of 0 will be unrideable. General advice is just leave at factory setting as default, which most times is 1 from what I can tell. But if 0.5 then fine.
You say "will have a better grip in hard packed snow" but think about it logically. If the base edge is completely flat it's going to "catch". That is the reason a small angle is created. It's not going to make any odds in terms of edge grip. The increase in edge grip will come from how much more angle (from 90) you create with the side edge. Again think about it logically. Each half degree is going to make the edge a tad more "pointy".
I don't see any difference going from edge to edge boarding or skiing. And as per skis I would imagine the sidecut and the fabrication will make up the character of the ski in terms of radius and ease of turning. But the edge angle just builds on this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Layne , first of all i dont bother to discuss. You are free to tell me your opinion. Thats why we are here
And really, i do not know if the edge is 0 or 0.5 , but i do NOT play around with the base edge. I left the factory settings and made the side edge to 89, because the grip was not so gut. I clean the edges etc but i do not change tha base edge.
However i have to say that my edge, as i look it with tha macro function with the mobile phone, looks like 0 and not 0.5 (or more). Maybe is 0.5 but the difference is really the lowest possible and i can not see it. But definitely not more than 0.5
And i didnt find my board unrideable (and i am not a profi).
PS about the language, nope...is not my mother language but usually i can speak and write better as it seemed, but with the mobile comes always this autocorrect , and trying to write the right word 2-3 times drives me crazy so sometimes i leave it as it comes. My Apoligize... 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@turms2, all good.
BTW, doing the side edges yourself isn't that difficult.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i know. But takes time. And after waxing three pair of ski, and one snowboard i am a little bit lazy
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Now - can we talk about how to shave the sidewall without a proper tool? My edging tool is not biting at 88 deg.
I've taken a sharp kitchen knife to a short section. Ugly. Ugly. Ugly.
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@WinBoard2, why not buy an edging tool, they aren't that expensive?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Probably want a sidewall trimmer to trim the sidewall, rather than an edging tool.
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@WinBoard2, I use this type of edge tool https://www.alpinetrek.co.uk/toko-edge-tuner-pro-edge-sharpener/ and has no problem cutting both sidewall and edge.
Use of 'single cut b'stard" file element (yes that's the real description of such a blade) and it'll cut any material there. Fairly high hand pressure required though.
Other methods also available 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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That's not a Fitzwilliam file?
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For any boarders reading this in the future, I've just spent a week in mostly hard icy conditions.
Day 1&2
On the board I had, Factory was 1deg base, 1deg edge bevel.
I assume the latter is achieved using 89deg on the edge tool. So over all 90deg edge
Day 3
I used the 87deg option on the edge tool. So overall 88deg edge.
A very noticeable increase in edge grip.
The new tool I've purchased goes down to 86deg. For general holiday riding I suspect that is too much as slide turning feels reduced.
Sidewall removal via sharp kitchen knife. Ugly.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| WinBoard2 wrote: |
For any boarders reading this in the future, I've just spent a week in mostly hard icy conditions.
Day 1&2
On the board I had, Factory was 1deg base, 1deg edge bevel.
I assume the latter is achieved using 89deg on the edge tool. So over all 90deg edge
Day 3
I used the 87deg option on the edge tool. So overall 88deg edge.
A very noticeable increase in edge grip.
The new tool I've purchased goes down to 86deg. For general holiday riding I suspect that is too much as slide turning feels reduced.
Sidewall removal via sharp kitchen knife. Ugly.
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i have also at present 89 for the side egdes. The base edge didnt touch them since i got the board. (are the 0? 0.5? 1? not idea). I suppose 0.5 base egde and 89 side edge.
I used the board also in icy conditions and didnt had a problem. However i have to mention that i use to make them sharp every 15 days maybe?
first with the alu oxyd stone, then with the edge sharpener and after that a little bit with the diamand stone (?)
really dont know the exact names in Englisch
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