 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm wondering how I could improve on my skiing technique on some narrow corridor. I would like to think I'm an okay skier and I can ski down in all kind of runs generally without any issues (albeit perhaps not elegantly on some!)
I did le grand couloir in Courchevel the other day and I don't think I skied too well in the first 10% of the run (the part where you have to traverse across the ridge to get to the couloir). Though I was able to control my speed I found it quite difficult to make turns on the ridge (as there is specific pattern on the piste I sort of have to follow as everyone is making the same turn at the same place, if that makes sense). I was a bit scared as the visibility was bad and I was the only one on the piste. In the back of my mind I was worried I might lose control and fall off the ridge either side.
I am trying to figure out the root cause and how I can improve on my technique. I am aware my carving technique is not perfect. Whilst I can carve and I can make small turns (with some slippage on steep runs), I can't carve on small turns too well (e.g. carving down moguls or glading in high density forest). I also can't carve on one single ski on the outside edge (with the other ski taken off or lifted up) e.g. I can't carve with my right leg turning right and with no left ski.
I guess it could also be a confidence issue. When I am confident, I am in control and I am aware of how I ski (e.g. I can feel how I'm edging etc). However when I traversed across the top part of the grand couloir I was scared and I felt like I wasn't in control (even though I didn't lose control). It wasn't my first time doing grand couloir but it was my first time doing it by myself in poor visibility.
Any advice welcome 
Edit: For the actual couloir I was fine - my issue is to do with the traverse across at the top of the run)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@euanovsky, Hi,
You were the only one, the visibility was bad, you were (reasonably) worried you'd fall off. 'A bit scared' is probably an understatement!
I think you have said everything in the post- lots of things going on and in particular the issues of being able to ski an very small cut up track precisely- and i think you have set out all the skills needed, then combined with the atmosphere- and quite real risk of a nasty fall, how that then translated into a 'not very nice' 10%.
The irony is that small kids develop all these skills chasing each other along the little tracks at the edges of pistes. as you say an ability to ski on either ski- inside and outside egdes.
The alternative is to go really very slowly and use the expert manoeuvre of a snow plough (not kidding).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The traverse across isn't easy for the reasons you give, you are following the tracks of other skiers on what seems like a quite exposed ridge. I imagine it was also quite hard and icy last week.
You need to be able to pivot on flat skis as you transition from edge to edge. This requires skis that are correctly prepped - flat bases, good edges and also some technique - weight central, legs flexed. Skiing bumps will give you the technique, or practise skiing down the fall line in a very narrow corridor on cat tracks or steep slopes.
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It's often the first turn that's the hardest, and once you're feeling apprehensive it makes it worse. A poorly executed first turn will often leave you on the tails for the next turn which can then make it even harder to get back under proper control.
For this reason, and others, I often start out with a very deliberate snowplough/stem shape, get your downhill pole planted solidly way further in front /downhill than you might think, then as you rotate round/over the pole you've got lots of weight (and hence control) on the outside ski. You should be able to let it bring your round in a smooth circular shape, bringing the inside ski back parallel as or just before you cross the fall line, and be immediately properly centred for the next turn.
It's a fail-safe turn, especially when you don't know how grippy, slidey or breaky-crusty it may be, and you then have a good feeling for what to do on the next turn. Nothing wrong with stemming that one as well, but as you'll already have a bit of momentum you shouldn't need to do so anything like as much. Indeed, there's nothing 'wrong' with stemming all the way down if that's what works best.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I haven't skied that traverse for 20 years but I skied it a lot before that. I hardly ever felt that I'd skied it elegantly and confidently! I think you've had great advice from @davidof, and @Chaletbeauroc - I don't have much to add except:
1. as @davidof, points out, the turns you want are not carves but pivots on flat skis with gently edged finishes to shed speed. They are a useful skill and something that can be dialled-in on easy/safe terrain
2. @Chaletbeauroc, makes the good point that getting the first turn right in a psychologically demanding situation is key. Stems are a good tactic. The other one I favour is an exaggerated deep flexion and extension to unweight. WHen I am tense I tend to be stiff legged and underegg the UW so I focus on overdoing it.
Finally, if you go back it might help to know that the ground "off the edge" is not as bad as it looks from the traverse. It is all skiable terrain - steeper than the Gd Couloir but not extreme (I must have skied most of the lines when I worked my only ski season and I was not a high level skier). If you went over the consequences would very likely be much better than you fear!
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Thank you for all your advice and encouragement!
| ed123 wrote: |
| The alternative is to go really very slowly and use the expert manoeuvre of a snow plough (not kidding). |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| It's often the first turn that's the hardest, and once you're feeling apprehensive it makes it worse. A poorly executed first turn will often leave you on the tails for the next turn which can then make it even harder to get back under proper control. |
Those are very good points and ones I haven't considered before. I think my problem is that I wasn't confident in my first turn and couldn't commit to it and all my subsequent turns were just subpar. If I did a snowplough turn to start with perhaps that would give me the commitment/confidence that I need.
| davidof wrote: |
| You need to be able to pivot on flat skis as you transition from edge to edge |
I've seen some ski instructors carving edge to edge at very slow speed with minimal movement - basically just edging at the ankle without using the rest of the leg much (as opposed to the typical carving shot/photo where the skier is in a "C-shaped" position). I can do that a bit but not too well so need to get better at it. Often I also see skiers carving on just one single leg both side and I'm quite jealous as I definitely can't do that. I could just about turn to the awkward side (i.e. right side on right leg) on one leg let alone carving through the turn!
| jedster wrote: |
| Finally, if you go back it might help to know that the ground "off the edge" is not as bad as it looks from the traverse. It is all skiable terrain - steeper than the Gd Couloir but not extreme (I must have skied most of the lines when I worked my only ski season and I was not a high level skier). If you went over the consequences would very likely be much better than you fear! |
Yea I don't doubt your words I just need to convince myself logically that's the case! I think in general the black runs in Europe aren't too bad/steep compared to some double black diamonds in America. Oh-la-la some of the steepest runs I did were over there and I can't say I enjoyed them too much (well at least now while I was doing it!)
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@euanovsky, it’s not possible to carve a turn slowly unless you are on the gentlest of terrain. I’ve skied that ridge path a few times and while it’s not especially steep, just rolling your skis from edge to edge would for the majority of skiers mean too high a speed to be comfortable. As others have said, blending in some rotation/skidding/scraping of your skis would be a much better way of managing your speed.
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Having been on the Grand Couloir ridge 7 or 8 of the last 10 days with clients I will add my thoughts.
The ridge has been tricky the last few days, some of the moguls have evolved into near vertical steps 60 - 80 cm high spanning the vast majority of the ridge. This makes it difficult to easily pivot and slip to control speed.
The main focus needs to be on tactics rather than technique, as others have mentioned a mixture of ploughing and step turning will be needed to keep speed down in the tighter areas and then skidded rather than carved turns on the more open patches.
Despite what jedster says I think you are correct to be scared of going off the side of the ridge. On the Courchevel side there is currently a 2m high cornice in places where as on the Meribel side you have a 35 degree slope full of jaggy rocks. Going into these areas unintentionally and there is a good chance you will not be leaving under your own steam!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FWIW I've only done this on 75mm Telemark gear (which is the especially wobbly version- ie not NTN). The ridge was by far the hardest bit and even then there was a fair amount of sitting down when we did the couloir on the Meribel side. Needless to say my son (then about 12-13) and also on telemark gear had to wait for me quite a bit.
The ridge when we did it had lots of different levels- with the track lurching from one level to another in quite steep drops- so not face-planting was a challenge. So some ploughing and then some pivots were required.
I think that the 'psych' is a bit factor though.
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@euanovsky, just to add to what others have said, it's tactical skiing to get from a to b, in order to get to the main slope - consider side slipping, falling leaf and even stepping down on top of the already mentioned snow plough and step turns...
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Tue 2-01-24 15:20; edited 2 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rob@rar, Yea sorry when I said carving slowly I didn't mean carving slowly on the ridge. It's just that occasionally I see instructors showing off when they approach a ski lift and they started doing these very small carving turns at a low speed.
@snowrider, Cool I did do it last week glad I wasn't the only one finding the ridge challenging! The condition on the couloir wasn't too bad actually.
@ed123, interestingly I was also telemarking but on NTN (I didn't mention it in the beginning as I wasn't sure if it was relevant) and I was skiing parallel on the ridge anyway. I just felt a bit dumb that I didn't consider doing snow plough on the ridge!
@kitenski - had to google to see what a falling leave is!
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 2-01-24 18:09; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| euanovsky wrote: |
I am trying to figure out the root cause and how I can improve on my technique. I am aware my carving technique is not perfect. Whilst I can carve and I can make small turns (with some slippage on steep runs), I can't carve on small turns too well (e.g. carving down moguls or glading in high density forest). I also can't carve on one single ski on the outside edge (with the other ski taken off or lifted up) e.g. I can't carve with my right leg turning right and with no left ski.
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Couple of points here and firstly, apologies if I'm misreading this.
Firstly, you don't need to carve everywhere. You don't need to carve in moguls particularly, you need a lot more rotation skills to turn the skis underneath you.
Secondly, why exactly are you trying to carve one legged on your inside ski? Unless I'm reading this wrong, you're turning right, and you're trying to do so only using your right ski? That's an incredibly difficult skill to achieve, so I'm not surprised you're struggling! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| snowrider wrote: |
Having been on the Grand Couloir ridge 7 or 8 of the last 10 days with clients I will add my thoughts.
The ridge has been tricky the last few days, some of the moguls have evolved into near vertical steps 60 - 80 cm high spanning the vast majority of the ridge. This makes it difficult to easily pivot and slip to control speed.
The main focus needs to be on tactics rather than technique, as others have mentioned a mixture of ploughing and step turning will be needed to keep speed down in the tighter areas and then skidded rather than carved turns on the more open patches.
Despite what jedster says I think you are correct to be scared of going off the side of the ridge. On the Courchevel side there is currently a 2m high cornice in places where as on the Meribel side you have a 35 degree slope full of jaggy rocks. Going into these areas unintentionally and there is a good chance you will not be leaving under your own steam! |
The cornice sounds bigger than usual but your description sounds right. I was really making the point that you are not skiing above a 50 degree slope with big rock bands. Certainly launching yourself at speed over either side could be painful.
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