My past two ski trips have driven me (and my feet) to the point that I feel that I cannot use rentals any longer. I have narrow feet and slightly bowed legs, making just about every rental boot I try on too wide and causing pain in the inner ankle bone due to pronation. In the past 5 days of skiing, I have tried using 3 different boots (same as last year). I am not only in high levels of discomfort (heavily tightening the boots while skiing and unbuckling them before/on a lift), but I also cannot trust the equipment.
I am 21M, 5'10", and 145lbs. I have been skiing for about 15 years and am an advanced skier. I would say I am better than intermediate but to say I am an expert feels wrong. I have skied in Utah, Colorado, Europe, and this year, Japan! It was not until recent years that I noticed the discomfort/lack of security I feel in rental ski boots.
As a result, I am considering purchasing my first pair of ski boots for myself as a late Christmas present. I am currently in Niseko Hirafu so would not mind taking advantage of the amazing ski culture here to find the best boots possible. The only catch is I leave in two days, so I would need to get this done tomorrow (writing this at midnight...).
I went to Rhythm (a ski rental shop based in AUS/Japan) and tried on the most comfortable ski boots I have ever put on: Salomon S Pro Alpha 110. The boot fitter knew exactly what he was doing and also suggested getting a footbed to further aid with pronation. There were some hot spots but compared to what I am used to with rentals, it was a night and day difference. But, given the importance of this purchase, I wanted to know if anyone is familiar with any good boot fitters in the area (I tried going to BootSolutions but they were fully booked -- could try going tomorrow) and if they have any input/similar experiences.
Thanks!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 29-12-23 16:29; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Even with a good bootfitter it's unlikely that the boots are going to fit 100% right on the first attempt. Either find a good bootfitter where you live or find something in resort on the 1st day of your next trip to the mountains so you have a few days to go back and have any corrections made.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Forgot to add: I am meeting up with a friend who lives in Switzerland and will be skiing there for 3 days after Japan and am planning a ski trip in March with some friends. These trips would allow me to break in the new boots and figure out what needs to be tweaked. Not sure if it is enough to warrant new boots but I will be doing more skiing this year and would like to avoid the discomfort of rentals.
1) "Breaking in" helps with general all around tightness - like someone giving you a handshake that is a bit too firm. But if you're experiencing actual pain at a particular pressure point it's not going to just magically disappear when the liners pack down.
2) Conversely, just because the boots feel good in the shop doesn't mean they'll feel okay after a few hours skiing.
If the Swiss resort has a good bootfitter I would go there first thing on day one. That way you at least have a couple of days to get tweaks done. If you get them fitted in Japan you'll have to pay for any mods when you get to Switzerland.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@lrivera817, Hi and welcome to snowHeads.
Definitely get your own boots - they will transform your skiing both technically and enjoyment-wise (nothing worse than being on holiday with sore feet )
Cannot give local recommendations but couple of comments :
You might consider a slightly stiffer boot - an advanced skier of your height may overwhelm the 110's (although judging stiffness is difficult as it is not standardised),
Get the footbeds at the same time as the boot fitting.
Enjoy
Stiffness is totally standardised, no guess work involved, impossible in fact.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
CH2O wrote:
Stiffness is totally standardised, no guess work involved, impossible in fact.
Did I read that right???
There’s no industry standard for flex - treat numbers as a guide and trust your fitter.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
There’s no industry standard for flex - treat numbers as a guide and trust your fitter.
That was my understanding for sure but I will confess to no specific expertise
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
If you have narrow feet then I’d strongly recommend a low-volume boot (98 last) and if you’re advanced a 130 flex. I’m similar (although a bit heavier and taller) and have found the Atomic Hawx 130 almost the perfect boot.
I bought my children and new-to-skiing partner ski boots as the first and most important purchase; rental boots are never going to fit properly since the liner is going to encounter many different foot shapes and, in general, they will be made to feel soft/comfortable in the shop but then you’ll either need to do them up very tightly to have sufficient control OR they’ll be loose and your feet will bang into parts of the boot. In both cases, you’ll end up with either sore feet or a poor connection to your skis or potentially both.
Get a low volume boot and have the shell AND liner molded to your feet. You’ll then find that you don’t need to do it up as tightly since there is less padding and the shell actually maps to your feet. My boots are all-day comfortable (I don’t feel the need to undo the buckles at lunchtime) but offer great control. The only downside is getting them on and off … which is more of a palaver since there is less spare volume in the boot but, for me at least, is so worth it.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
I bought my children
I've just sold mine to finance my new skis
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I have to say, 15 years of skiing experience and you never bought your own boots is something. Most skiiers I know get them after a year or so.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
snowheid wrote:
Quote:
There’s no industry standard for flex - treat numbers as a guide and trust your fitter.
That was my understanding for sure but I will confess to no specific expertise
Me too -- I expected to see a 'smiley' or a 'wink' at the end of the post from @CH20
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Blackblade wrote:
If you have narrow feet then I’d strongly recommend a low-volume boot (98 last) and if you’re advanced a 130 flex. I’m similar (although a bit heavier and taller) and have found the Atomic Hawx 130 almost the perfect boot.
I bought my children and new-to-skiing partner ski boots as the first and most important purchase; rental boots are never going to fit properly since the liner is going to encounter many different foot shapes and, in general, they will be made to feel soft/comfortable in the shop but then you’ll either need to do them up very tightly to have sufficient control OR they’ll be loose and your feet will bang into parts of the boot. In both cases, you’ll end up with either sore feet or a poor connection to your skis or potentially both.
Get a low volume boot and have the shell AND liner molded to your feet. You’ll then find that you don’t need to do it up as tightly since there is less padding and the shell actually maps to your feet. My boots are all-day comfortable (I don’t feel the need to undo the buckles at lunchtime) but offer great control. The only downside is getting them on and off … which is more of a palaver since there is less spare volume in the boot but, for me at least, is so worth it.
Hey all,
Thanks for all the replies. I have decided that I’m going to buy boots in Switzerland and have them molded to my feet (and potentially purchase footbeds).
I’m going into it with no preference on boots, I just want something that feels comfortably snug. The boots I mentioned in my original post are 98 last, the narrowest they had at the store in Japan. I did not get to try many boots there but it’s a sort of reference point for Switzerland.
I am definitely considering a boot with 120/130 flex and will talk to the boot fitter about it.
Again, thank you all for the help and if there’s any other feedback let me know.
Thanks!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@lrivera817, if you tell us where you're going in Switzerland, someone might be able to recommend a boot fitter there. I imagine it would be worth making an appointment in advance and giving a general idea of your measurements, experience and requirements, to increase the chances of there being something suitable in stock when you get there.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hurtle wrote:
@lrivera817, if you tell us where you're going in Switzerland, someone might be able to recommend a boot fitter there. I imagine it would be worth making an appointment in advance and giving a general idea of your measurements, experience and requirements, to increase the chances of there being something suitable in stock when you get there.
Probably should’ve done so earlier. I’m going to Klosters and staying with a friend. More of a local town but Davos is very close and is more touristy/known. I’ve looked at some shops (Andrist and Bardill) that my friend recommended but cannot check their boots stock.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
snowheid wrote:
Quote:
I bought my children
I've just sold mine to finance my new skis
Tried that … got a very rude email from eBay who didn’t see the joke !
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dashed wrote:
CH2O wrote:
Stiffness is totally standardised, no guess work involved, impossible in fact.
Did I read that right???
There’s no industry standard for flex - treat numbers as a guide and trust your fitter.
I do, and of course it's a standard, you think all the manufacturers are shooting in the dark and hoping for the best?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
CH2O wrote:
I do, and of course it's a standard, you think all the manufacturers are shooting in the dark and hoping for the best?
I'm serious, i fail to understand this thinking, i've seen the testing done in all but 2 factories, the data is the data, however understanding it, all the variables and factors makes it's fairly complex. At least the manufacturers are now moving away from indexing flex with ability, Weight, Tibial Length and speeds traveled are the key factors, after ankle geometry. Being a beginner or WC racer are fairly low down on the hierarchy of important factors to consider. Materials, temperatures, and volume are next! Boot flex is a tested number, it appears on your boots, it relates to NM but has too many variables to be accurate across different molds. Yes, you'll feel a difference between any two different moulds of the same flex due to soooo many factors, we can explain it further if you need.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
CH2O wrote:
Yes, you'll feel a difference between any two different moulds of the same flex due to soooo many factors, we can explain it further if you need.
So it's not standardise then? If something like 130 isn't the same across all models, how is that standardise?
The same test under the same conditions is used by all manufacturers and different models. So the test that’s used to give you the number you speak of is observed, « standard » across all manufacturers and different models.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
CH2O wrote:
The same test under the same conditions is used by all manufacturers and different models. So the test that’s used to give you the number you speak of is observed, « standard » across all manufacturers and different models.
This is the 1st time I've heard of such a thing, do you have a link to the test lab and the ISO standard that differentiate say between a 120 and 130 flex? Every source I've watched or read about boots are saying that boots flex rating isn't even standard within a brand nevermind across different ones.
The « test « is carried out not to determine the flex(individual) of the boot. It is to test the durability and life span of many thousand flexes over a boots life span, using different thicknesses, densities and types of plastic. The test has that in mind and is kinda a pre deposed factor, the average weight of a human (68kg) travelling at 60km per hour. So we put a boot in a temperature controlled environment and pump it through it range of motion using a mechanical leg. This lets up observe the drop off in resistance each time the boot is flexed. This is super complex as the boots will be used in different temperatures, each degree difference will have an effect if the longevity of the elasticity of the boots, also being microwaved by UV isn’t helping, so we do it 30,000 times, average 150-200 days skiing.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@luanb, Billions of people believe in all sorts of stuff, you chose what you believe I guess, I’m going with what I’ve actually seen. Xx
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@CH2O, I am fascinated by this and you appear to have deep technical knowledge on the subject but I suspect further enquiry may elicit answers that I will not understand as the subject seems to be a bit of a rabbit hole.
In essence you are saying that the flex number is a standardised test but interpreting the resulting number is complex beyond easy comprehension
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
CH2O wrote:
@luanb, Billions of people believe in all sorts of stuff, you chose what you believe I guess, I’m going with what I’ve actually seen. Xx
Now I know that you're trolling.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I wish I only had the courage to film myself and do a counter video explaining how wrong the dude is.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
snowheid wrote:
@CH2O, I am fascinated by this and you appear to have deep technical knowledge on the subject but I suspect further enquiry may elicit answers that I will not understand as the subject seems to be a bit of a rabbit hole.
In essence you are saying that the flex number is a standardised test but interpreting the resulting number is complex beyond easy comprehension
It’s easy to understand if I can.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
CH2O wrote:
I wish I only had the courage to film myself and do a counter video explaining how wrong the dude is.
Don't need a video, article or doctoral theosist. All I need to see is a chart or a set of criterias that says this is what a 130 flex boot should do, regardless of brand, material, size or colour.
Actually, forget about it. I'm not going to engage with such trolling anymore.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
You know what a 130nm boot can do, we learn it at most schools at 14-15
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It’s not trolling at all, I’m happy to help you understand it, it’s not too hard to understand quickly, I say it to 10 people a day.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
lrivera817 wrote:
Hurtle wrote:
@lrivera817, if you tell us where you're going in Switzerland, someone might be able to recommend a boot fitter there. I imagine it would be worth making an appointment in advance and giving a general idea of your measurements, experience and requirements, to increase the chances of there being something suitable in stock when you get there.
Probably should’ve done so earlier. I’m going to Klosters and staying with a friend. More of a local town but Davos is very close and is more touristy/known. I’ve looked at some shops (Andrist and Bardill) that my friend recommended but cannot check their boots stock.
Both resorts are well-known, but Davos is bigger. May I suggest you start a new thread asking for recommendations of a bootfitter in either resort? And perhaps email any recommended shops to enquire whether they might be able to accommodate you with an appointment and a suitable pair of boots? That's what I would do, but others might have different/additional ideas.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Boot put in oven and secured. Temperature 23degrees. Boot closed to specific restisence. Boot flexed through 15degrees forwards, 8back. Boot flexed 30,000 times, resistance curve measured. Machine uses energy, measured in joules. We can divide the energy used and divide by the amount of times the test is performed. This gives us a theoretic number giving us restisence. If this number is between 96 and a 104 then whammy!!!! You got yourself a 100 boot!!!
@CH2O, I think @Hurtle, is gently indicating that we have drifted off the subject of this thread so I think I will start a new one as I for one am interested in the answers
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
