 Poster: A snowHead
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This Guardian story may be as predictable (but more accurate than) the annual Express/Mail prediction of 50 year winters.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/dec/26/ski-resorts-battle-for-a-future-as-snow-declines-in-climate-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
As an illustration last week’s mega dump superseded by very high temperatures with heavy rain in lower resorts and heavy off piste at higher resorts. This time around 15 years ago I enjoyed skiing Chamonix’s Pas D’ Chevre all the way to the MdG then the James Bond run back to town, now this rarely gets done in a season due to lack of sufficient snow. I still enjoy skiing but after too many ever more expensive trips with poor off piste conditions (maybe I’ve been particularly unlucky?) I’ve decided to reduce my skiing to one January week a year at snow sure(ish!) high level resort, taking all mountain skis to enjoy the pistes but able to take advantage of an occasional off piste day if I’m lucky.
I’ve decided to concentrate my time and cash on non-snow dependant sports. Is anyone else taking or considering a similar transition?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 26-12-23 10:11; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's been the best early season conditions for a while in Zermatt, I've decided to do more skiing. I never believe anything in the Guardian, the mail or express are much better.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@On the rocks, yeah, I think you are right. Give up skiing and move onto something more environmentally sound, eg lawn bowls.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| @On the rocks, yeah, I think you are right. Give up skiing and move onto something more environmentally sound, eg lawn bowls. |
Real grass or artificial?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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lol
It is an El Nino year & rumored to be a strong one...
Nov/Dec snowfalls have been above average & there is plenty of precipitation in the air.
Just need the russian cold air to move across & a blocking event to push the cold air south
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I've had some great trips at this time of year, and some poor ones.
The worst ever, no snow at all, was in 1987...before global.warming was invented.
Does.my experience make me a denier?
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Conditions will vary and always have. Still I think most people who have skied regularly will have experienced a deteriorating trend.
Back in the 80's poor snow was usually due to blocking highs with low temperatures rather than heavy rain at altitude in the winter months.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Ram80, In that case I’m curious as to why you have posted a link explaining how global warming due to man made climate change has dramatically overridden the natural cycles 
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I'm sure the skiing is going to last longer than my knees will.
Would I choose a resort at 800m for christmas or March unlikely
I suspect fewer young people (from the uk anyway) will take up winter sports in the future as there are ever increasing demands on their incomes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| T Bar wrote: |
Conditions will vary and always have. Still I think most people who have skied regularly will have experienced a deteriorating trend.
Back in the 80's poor snow was usually due to blocking highs with low temperatures rather than heavy rain at altitude in the winter months. |
Exactly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| T Bar wrote: |
Conditions will vary and always have. Still I think most people who have skied regularly will have experienced a deteriorating trend.
Back in the 80's poor snow was usually due to blocking highs with low temperatures rather than heavy rain at altitude in the winter months. |
And it’s accelerating. The temperature peaks on the warm side have taken the occasional rain at 2200m up to 2500m, 2800m and even 3000m during the last couple of seasons. I don’t remember this happening even 5 years ago
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I'm not going to comment on the climate since I'm not an expert, but the Guardian is a complete rag and does not do anything close to journalism. They do click farming.
I remember being called as an expert by the Guardian for one of the most ridiculous "Trump Bad" stories (plenty of bad things to say about him, but this was absurd). I told them the entire premise of the article was wrong and the trend they were seeing was normal and had nothing to do with Trump. Of course they kept calling people until some idiot told them what they wanted to here for a quote and printed it.
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You know it makes sense.
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No comment on the article cos I haven't clicked it, however 10 degrees on the Ahorn right now....
And yes I'm starting to feel the same way as the Op
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Bergmeister, i’m finding its a matter of diminishing return in terms of time and costs, the latter seems to increasingly exponentially. Rather than lawn bowls I’m finding sea kayaking and rock climbing much more rewarding these days, particularly as the UK offers plenty of world class sea kayaking all year round.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| stevesie wrote: |
| .... but the Guardian is a complete rag ... |
I do think this article is something all the papers do as a pseudo-news story at a time of quiet news. It wasn't a serious discussion with properly presented facts and trends, though obviously it is a real ongoing issue.
However you have to accept that the Guardian is about the best there is in British journalism. All the other national titles are mouthpieces for their rich proprietors' pet political views and commercial self-interest.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Last season was all time conditions in Tahoe. Europe had a poor season, but Canada and central Asia had decent seasons.
This season Europe got off to a great start. Whistler is awful, but most of north America seems decent. But it's still Christmas, which is early season and iffy conditions are to be expected.
Most people are happy enough just on piste, which doesn't need much snow. Great powder skiing has never really been guaranteed outside Japan. I think social media has probably gave a lot of people unreasonable expectations of just how often you get deep powder days. I've done multiple seasons in Canada and if you offered me 10 proper bottomless powder days per season I'd take it every time - they are a lot rarer than you think. Of course go touring/Heli skiing and there's plenty of powder to be had but comes at a bit of effort/high cost.
I think costs are killing skiing more than weather. Although I do expect to see lower resorts close.
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Temps and rain are increasing.
Snow and frost are decreasing.
Skiable glaciers worldwide are all but gone.
Winter season is getting hotter and shorter.
Offpiste is all but over in many parts of Europe, North America, and Asia.
Global boiling is taking hold.
The weather trend is headed in the wrong direction.
SnowHeads may become RainHeads.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Offpiste is all but over in many parts of Europe, North America, and Asia.
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After the best Nov/early Dec conditions in years around here this is patently not true. The snow depths at 2500m are at record levels (records dating back to early 90’s) and twice the seasonal average
The issue is that after the epic pow days the warm fronts have blown in with rain to high altitudes wrecking the snow.
Fortunately the resets have been regular this early season at altitude. But while it may be fabulous at 3000m, at 1500m the base isn’t there and/or you’re skiing on rain crust.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| Conditions will vary and always have. Still I think most people who have skied regularly will have experienced a deteriorating trend. |
In a nutshell...
While winters will always be variable I certainly notice a deteriorating trend.
| BobinCH wrote: |
The issue is that after the epic pow days the warm fronts have blown in with rain to high altitudes wrecking the snow.
Fortunately the resets have been regular this early season at altitude. But while it may be fabulous at 3000m, at 1500m the base isn’t there and/or you’re skiing on rain crust. |
Yup - An alpine isotherme of 3000m+ in January / February was unheard of 20 years ago.
There seems to be more precipitation - but higher freezing levels mean more of that falling as rain to higher levels.
Snow line seems to be getting higher in the alps and good tree skiing (with a proper base) becoming rarer.
| rungsp wrote: |
| The worst ever, no snow at all, was in 1987...before global.warming was invented. |
I think that was the winter that precipitated mass investment in snow making though ?
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We’ve known about climate change for nearly 40 years now. The prediction has always been for warmer temperatures and more marginal snowfall, which seems exactly what we are getting as the snow line climbs above the summits, more often.
2023 has been an exceptionally warm year which means more saturated air and consequently heavy snow on the higher runs but rain lower down. Sadly there is a distinct absence of deep cold in the Alps now.
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| Quote: |
The worst ever, no snow at all, was in 1987
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@rungsp, no, the worst ever no snow at all, all season (in France) was something like 1956 ...
1987 wasn't great (I wasn't there, but heard about it) , 1988 had a blocking high for 6 weeks or so after a decent start, 1989 had a blocking high for 9 weeks or so, to the extant that Avoriaz was down to 6 pistes and 2 chairs 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Past snowless winters mean nothing, really, in the context of climate change. There will still be good years and bad years but the average will get worse.
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@pam w, indeed, that.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
There will still be good years and bad years but the average will get worse.
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Apparently some places like Banff that have traditionally not got a lot of snow due to it being "too cold" are now going to do better. So it may be that there is also an element of the ski destinations changing. Perhaps central Asia will come into its own (some big euroresorts are scouting out there to put in lifts and diversify). Perhaps skiing goes further north - a video of Cody skiing aleyska resort in Alaska looked pretty good conditions already. There have been rumours about the likes of vailmount and jumbo in northern Canada. Perhaps the Norwegian resorts expand, or a big new resort there?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boarder2020, it would be somewhat ironic if people started flying from Europe to Asia to reach resorts not (yet) adversely affected by climate change.
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boarder2020,
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jumbo in northern Canada.
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Jumbo has been talked about on and off for around 30 years or so, and still not really got anywhere and by all accounts never will 
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You know it makes sense.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| It's been the best early season conditions for a while in Zermatt, I've decided to do more skiing. I never believe anything in the Guardian, the mail or express are much better. |
Having been lucky enough to spend most of December in Zermatt I can completely concur; it's been the best season start for many years there.
I think that, unfortunately, the trend is nonetheless not a good one in terms of snowfall and temperatures but I have no intention of throwing in the towel yet. I think the key thing is to set expectations reasonably; I love to ski off-piste but I've also never lost my love of high speed carving or bumps or other piste-oriented aspects of our sport. As a result, if the lifts are running I know that I'm going to have a great day.
I think that we have at least another thirty years (well, I won't last that long) of skiing ahead of us and, as an optimist, I suspect that we will at least partially be able to mitigate the effects of global warming and extend this into the far future. Either way, let's enjoy what we have now.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I am giving skiing a rest this season. Thereafter not sure - but I may call an end to it. I have had a very good run. Haven't thought of lawn bowls - but I shall spend useful time getting ready for model aircraft flying during the winter.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BobinCH wrote: |
After the best Nov/early Dec conditions in years around here this is patently not true. The snow depths at 2500m are at record levels (records dating back to early 90’s) and twice the seasonal average
[t. |
Biggest el nino for 50 years
Bigger than 2015 & the mid 1990s
Need that blocking to invite russian cold air for an epic season. Clouds are saturated
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The end of skiing has been a wet-dream for Graun readers since the year dot.
It's number 3 on the their fantasy top ten behind private jets and V8s
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @boarder2020, it would be somewhat ironic if people started flying from Europe to Asia to reach resorts not (yet) adversely affected by climate change. |
Why is that ironic?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @boarder2020, it would be somewhat ironic if people started flying from Europe to Asia to reach resorts not (yet) adversely affected by climate change. |
Why is that ironic? |
Perhaps "ironic" isn't quite the right word. My observation is that people flying further afield to get to resorts not (yet) affected by climate change would add further to climate change by making more / longer flights, so in the long run potentially make things even worse.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Jumbo has been talked about on and off for around 30 years or so, and still not really got anywhere and by all accounts never will
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I'm sure there are other suitable areas in the north of Canada that would make epic resorts. Of course it would take a huge financial investment building roads (maybe even an airport would be necessary). Of course right now it still doesn't make sense, there are too many more accessible great snow sure resorts to make it a good investment.
Like I say one of the biggest ski domains in Europe was flying helis around kyrgyzstan last year scouting out terrain for new ski areas. I have to think some of that is diversification to a place they consider is more snow sure.
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My OH is feeling quite smug, as in her well researched feature she wrote back in mid-November much is coming true...
https://www.stylealtitude.com/snow-forecast-for-winter-ski-season-2023-2024.html
For three years, La Nina has dominated global weather, the girl child kicking up some petulant snow storms, especially over the western side of North America, last winter, but leaving Europe underwhelmed. Now it's all change with the boy child, El Niño, taking over the meteorological nursery and shaking the snow globe.
That said we now have not had a decent season for around 8 years, and my definition of that is good skiing November through to ski touring in May and not having to scratch around on emtbs and the like to get to good snow.
And it's not only winter temperatures too be concerned about, again this year atop 3000m it was often 35° !!!
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| Gored wrote: |
lol
It is an El Nino year & rumored to be a strong one...
Nov/Dec snowfalls have been above average & there is plenty of precipitation in the air.
Just need the russian cold air to move across & a blocking event to push the cold air south |
Can I give myself a pat on the back?
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Yes you can, getting excited looking at webcams.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Bones wrote: |
boarder2020,
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jumbo in northern Canada.
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Jumbo has been talked about on and off for around 30 years or so, and still not really got anywhere and by all accounts never will |
Dead as a dodo as the local indigenous people won their 30 year court case in 2020 I think and all leases issued were revoked or purchased by the govt for them and it turned into a massive protected space for them and the grizzly bears.
I think the developers moved 500 miles further along and are not being fought on it. Something like 15,000 skiable acres in their new one - Valemount?
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| Peter S wrote: |
| We’ve known about climate change for nearly 40 years now. |
Over a hundred years to be more accurate; there was even a dystopic scifi thriller about it in the early 70s.
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FAQ
. It was our best-ever off piste season 