 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hey Snowheads,
I'm planning a first time trip to the European alps, have been stuck going to Japan for the last 10 years so thought It's time I see something new. I'll be going with my partner, we are both advanced snowboarders and are looking at booking 3 weeks from mid jan.
It seems cheapest flights will take us to either Milan/Venice or Geneva. It's overwhelming how many resorts there are to see over there and I'm finding myself trying to cram too much into a small trip but unsure. So far my stripped back plan would be to fly into Venice, head to dolomites to base for a weekish maybe Cortina/Arabba open to suggestion, then head over to the Aosta valley to ride Cervinia/Cormayeu for a weekish maybe duck into Chammonix and Zermatt from the Italian side then back to Milan to fly home.
- Does this sound reasonable for a 3 week trip/ any other places I should include that are must haves ( was thinking maybe duck into austria or switzerland after dolomites)
- Best place to base in dolomites ? Would we need a car to explore the area there or is it pretty well linked if we wanted to check out say marmolada.
- It seems general consensus that car hire from airports in Italy doesn't include winter tyres, or a car that would fit board bags? Is there a local city near dolomites that would offer this that I could train to from Venice -Maybe Bolzano?
- Best way to travel from Dolomites to Aosta? would i also need a car there to explore/ best place to base for the week, definitely want to do the skyway
Open to suggestions but definitely have my heart set on seeing dolomites, understand snow will be average there so wouldn't mind getting a powder fix and some good off piste terrain after that.
Cheers for any help
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Sounds like a fair plan. There are so many mountains to visit. Just pick a couple of regions and do it.
Hertz offers winter tyres in Italy. I’ve just booked a car from Milan with winters.
You do t need a car in the Dolomites but you do in Aosta in my opinion.
Maybe fly into Venice. Get transport to Arabba. Get transport to Milan and grab a car there. Depart from Milan after the Aosta leg.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Ah k might be dated info about the winter tyre situation, it does seem to be an option available on most sites
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@mattkenny,
As above it is quite possible to book cars with winter tyres from Venice and other Italian destinations.
Dolomites are fantastic and unmissable. You may get great snow you maybe riding on man made who knows.
Aosta valley has many good resorts but you say you want powder if possible.
A personal feeling is that you have no idea now where the best snow will be, you won't know where the forecast is till much closer.
It is usually fairly easy to get places to stay in mid/ late Jan at fairly short notice as it is low season. Driving distances in the Alps are fairly short. Why not wait and see where the sow is lying or is forecast before deciding where to head on from the dolomites.
It could be that there is fantastic snow over the Brenner pass in Austria and poor snow in the Aosta or visa versa. Why not wait and see?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Good to know I can book on the go, I would have thought accom be booked out very soon, thanks.
Very true would be an option to stay flexible to chase the snow in case one area is lacking
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I agree with "wait and see". Some long journeys in that itinerary...... Italian trains are not bad though probably not in Japanese class.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The saying goes that there's more than one way to skin a cat...and there must be even more choices when it comes to spending 3 weeks in the Alps! 
But to answer your 4 points...
1. Your ideas don't sound completely unreasonable and you have named some iconic Alpine resorts that would surely be on everyone's wishlist, but you have included some large distances there from one end of the Alps to the other and back again. If you are landing in Venice and doing the Dolomites, then heading north to Austria for a powder fix sounds like a sensible plan as there is nearly always more snow there and it's a lot closer. You could get really lucky (or unlucky??) and have a huge dump in the Dolomites. One year in recent memory, Arabba was cut off for days due to a really heavy few metres of snowfall. But the 'wait & see' option might be better if chasing powder and fresh tracks are a priority. This website has great info and forecasting for chasing pow... https://wepowder.com/en/weblog/2023/11/24/pa1-update-and-outlook and of course our resident snowHeads weather experts on the weather outlook thread on here!  https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=165466&start=440
2. Arabba is probably the best spot for advanced abilities in the Dolomites. You can access a large amount of terrain there in the linked area, including the Sella Ronda, the Marmolada, off-piste routes on the Sella, etc. A car wouldn't strictly be necessary if you found somewhere to stay near a lift, but it would give you maximum flexibilty and may well be cheaper than transfers if there's more than one of you. There would always be the problem of where to get a car from when it's time to move on. There are no hire car offices in Arabba. Cortina is a bigger town and the scenery is pretty amazing, but the ski area is fragmented and not as extensive as what can be accessed from Arabba. You can actually ski over to Cortina from Arabba, but it is a long way there and back in a day. You can drive over too, road conditions permitting.
3. Winter tyres are available in N Italy, but the usual offering is snow chains OR winter tyres, which gets you legal in Italy, so please double-check that you are being offered GUARANTEED winter tyres. If you plan on taking the car into Austria, you will almost certainly need winter tyres fitted due to the more stringent legislation, not just a set of summers with a set of chains in the boot. If you are hoping to chase pow, having winters fitted would be sensible anyway, as you will be actively trying to drive into areas with recent heavy snowfall.
As to fitting board bags in, it shouldn't be an issue. You just need to match what bag length you have and how many passengers you want to carry to the size of the car. Most hatchbacks and estates (station-wagons?) on hire fleets have split-folding rear seats, so you can poke longer bags through. You might need something bigger if you intend to fill the vehicle with passengers and their luggage.
4. Driving yourself would be the most convenient way from the Dolomites across to Aosta Valley. It's a good 6 hours of driving time, assuming the mountain passes are open. If you have to drop back down towards Venice before heading west, hit bad weather or you get stuck in traffic around Milan, it could take quite a bit longer. In the Aosta Valley, the distances between the resorts are quite large, but it is possible to base yourself centrally in or near Aosta and commute to Courmayeur, Cervinia, Pila, La Thuile, Champoluc/MonteRosa, just be prepared for a 50-60min commute each way on some days, you would definitely need a car if this is your plan. Having a car if you're chasing pow is certainly a lot more convenient than trying to pick your way through using public transport which can be irregular or non-existent in some areas.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@mattkenny,
First be aware that much European accommodation is weekend to weekend.
I'd advise flying into Geneva - loads of ski areas accessible from there by hire car, coach transfer or the airport railway station.
Consider doing 3 different areas for a week each, Saturday to Saturday.
Example itinerary:- arrive Geneva & train to Zermatt, with the option to visit Italy for a day trip once or twice.
Return by train to Geneva, then a coach transfer to the French side of Portes du Soleil.
Return by coach transfer to Geneva, then a coach transfer to one of Espace Killy, 3Valleys or Paradiski.
Return by coach transfer to Geneva & home.
This method of getting between ski areas avoids having to hire a car, worry about winter tyres/road conditions,/other drivers/putting on snowchains/cost & booking of parking etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Kenzie wrote: |
@mattkenny,
First be aware that much European accommodation is weekend to weekend.
|
Off season there is seldom difficulty in getting accommodation for non standard weeks or part weeks particularly in Italy.
Ive just booked Four nights in Cortina late Jan/early Feb.
Last year I booked midweek to midweek in La Thuile mid March, both times I've had quite a few options. These are not isolated examples.
Most years I fly and use rental cars, the most painful transfer I've had recently was a miserable Saturday in Geneva, waiting for ever for a scheduled coach.
If at all possible I would avoid Geneva airport on a Saturday.(other days it's fine)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@T Bar,
Without knowing mattkenny's exact dates can only give an approximation. A budget whilst in Europe would also help with suggestions.
Don't disagree that accommodation can be more flexible between the end of New Year week & start of half term holidays.
But Saturday & Sunday have most coach transfer options to & from Geneva airport.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Kenzie wrote: |
@T Bar,
Without knowing mattkenny's exact dates can only give an approximation. A budget whilst in Europe would also help with suggestions.
Don't disagree that accommodation can be more flexible between the end of New Year week & start of half term holidays.
But Saturday & Sunday have most coach transfer options to & from Geneva airport. |
Sure Reading my post it seems a bit critical, so sorry I was not meaning to criticize well meaning advice, just last year I had a very long wait after landing in a very crowded Geneva airport for a Bens bus transfer, landing to resort was over 10 hours and it wasn't even holiday traffic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks all for the great replies, we will be on a tight budget so it seems maybe the better idea if hitting dolomites would be to stay in the east and duck into Austria for some variety and pow hunting
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@mattkenny, what dates are you working to? You generally would be better coming earlier in Jan and missing Feb if you can due to the school holidays...will be cheaper, more accom and the resorts massively less busy.
Link with all the dates here, but basically from 10th Feb until 9th March lots of schools are on holiday from lots of countries, with the 10th Feb-24th being the most busy
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=162546
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Will be hoping to make it over in early to mid Jan, definitely want to avoid the crowds
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| mattkenny wrote: |
| Thanks all for the great replies, we will be on a tight budget so it seems maybe the better idea if hitting dolomites would be to stay in the east and duck into Austria for some variety and pow hunting |
If on a tight budget just choose one of the mega areas & do all 3 weeks there. All 5 of the areas I mentioned above would fall into this category. You won't get bored.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@mattkenny, as Snowboarders familiar with Japow in January just a warning that Dolomites are likely to be a very different experience. Make sure you wax your edges and you probably want to ditch the powder board! Courmayeur / Chamonix more likely to offer you powder opportunities.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I’d think that visiting more than, say, two or three areas will mean you spend too much time in transfers between them, versus actual snowboarding. Somewhere like the Swiss 4 Valleys is just over 400Kms of pistes, even before you try out the extensive off-piste areas it includes. You could do three weeks there and still not exhaust all the potential excursions.
I’d fly into Geneva, given the choice. There are far more transfer options from there, including public transport to places like Verbier and Zermatt. And it has arguably more resorts within its radius.
caveat: we are based in the 4 Vallées so the following is biased!
It is possible to do Switzerland on a budget but you have to do the research. For example, you can ski Verbier and the 4 Valleys based in somewhere like Le Chable in the valley, or one of the satellites like La Tzoumaz or Nendaz. Both can be reached by public transport. Just as a guideline, our 2-bedroom 68m2 apartment in La Tzoumaz, a connected satellite of Verbier, would be about €750/week including heating and hot water with underground parking. Not a sales pitch, as we usually go the same time as you, late Jan through Feb, before the February half-terms, which are the quietest and most snowsure weeks. You’d probably opt for a studio. Like many owners, we’ve no problem with weekday bookings but many rental platforms aren’t set up to handle these, so you may need to msg agencies.
I’m fairly sure some of the Verbier residents will chip in here and say that even Verbier can be done cheaply during the post-New Year to Half-term period, which is the quiet time of the season. This might especially be true if you were committing to three weeks of rental - you may even get a discount because rentals then aren’t guaranteed i.e. better for an owner to get 3 weeks at 60% than one week at 100%. You could still do day excursions elsewhere from Verbier but I suspect that you’d end up staying put and skiing the whole area. Just a thought. Doing just Verbier would mean you’d not need a car - factor in CHF 104 pp return from GVA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @mattkenny, as Snowboarders familiar with Japow in January just a warning that Dolomites are likely to be a very different experience. Make sure you wax your edges and you probably want to ditch the powder board! Courmayeur / Chamonix more likely to offer you powder opportunities. |
Happy to be in the dolomites purely for the scenery and food, understand it will mostly be hard pack on piste riding so definitely want to find some better snow and off piste riding second half of the trip, Austria sounds like it may be a good option from the Dolomites.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| mattkenny wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| @mattkenny, as Snowboarders familiar with Japow in January just a warning that Dolomites are likely to be a very different experience. Make sure you wax your edges and you probably want to ditch the powder board! Courmayeur / Chamonix more likely to offer you powder opportunities. |
Happy to be in the dolomites purely for the scenery and food, understand it will mostly be hard pack on piste riding so definitely want to find some better snow and off piste riding second half of the trip, Austria sounds like it may be a good option from the Dolomites. |
Check your hire car will allow crossing borders, most do, but some charge extra.
You can slip over the Brenner Pass into W Austria if it looks good there, the Arlberg region is statistically the snowiest in the Alps, so a good chance you will find something there.
https://www.bergfex.com/lech-zuers-arlberg/schneebericht/
There are various multi-resort lift passes in the Tirol which might save you money if you were doing 3 weeks there: https://www.tyrol.com/things-to-do/sports/skiing/ski-pass
You can also head further East via Lienz and then North through the Felbertauern tunnel into Salzburg region. Konigsleiten in the Zillertal Arena and Obertauern are reporting 200cm snow depths. There are so many resorts in this region.
You can buy a regional pass there that covers 85 ski resorts: https://www.superskicard.com/en/ski-areas.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
