 Poster: A snowHead
|
Does anyone have and use the Level Cordura Thumb Protectors (or anything similar) and would you recommend them as fit for purpose of protecting thumbs from typical UCL injuries when skiing?
https://www.levelgloves.com/inside/technology/thumb-protection/
Earlier this year I had to have surgery for a completely torn ligament so want to protect my thumbs as much as possible, as well as those of my teenage kids. We ski weekly on dry slopes and compete in slalom.
The Level Cordura protectors are £90 for a pair but if they do the job I'm more than happy to buy, but just can't find any reviews anywhere or anything else similar out there.
Thanks in advance 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I snapped my thumb on the pole strap a few years ago and it’s not fun. I now have Leki trigger poles and gloves so it can’t happen as there’s no strap to bend your hand back as they clip into a loop on the glove. They should also pop off in a serious fall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
I had those, @4q, but couldn't get the hang of them. I;ve still got them in the back of a cupboard somewhere. For some years I simply haven't used any straps - I just hold the handle! I know two people who had nasty thumb injuries.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I found the separate straps a bit of a faf but the gloves are great, dead easy to clip in and out of.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I don't bother with straps, or ski where poles are essential
I'm with you@pam w,
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I did my UCL when racing at Hillend during my uni days. It took ages to fully heal so anything to prevent that injury would be money week spent.
That particular injury is a result of getting your thumb stuck in the matting whilst the rest of your body carries on down the hill  .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you're going to damage your thumb, would this not transfer the damage to something much more important, like your wrist? Maybe Mr Bell can advise (our resident surgeon)?
edit: this = the thumb strap the OP mentions
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 21-11-23 1:32; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Not with the leki trigger poles, they pop off.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
If you use the pole strap correctly you shouldn't have any problems with it. The OP is talking about thumb injuries from "inserting" the thumb between dendix squares. I did the same, though on snow. No straps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| joffy69 wrote: |
| If you use the pole strap correctly you shouldn't have any problems with it. The OP is talking about thumb injuries from "inserting" the thumb between dendix squares. I did the same, though on snow. No straps. |
Yes, I didn't actually have a strap on my poles, as was using leki wc race poles with guards, but it's the fall against the dendix that caused my UCL to tear off the bone 
I'm just looking for something to protect and support my already weakened thumb joint in case I fall again on the dry slope
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@joffy69, your thumb is at least equally important as your wrist. Your thumb is not just another finger; without thumb your hand loses most of its function. Think about it!
As my GP says: "Never, Never , Never use the straps on your skipoles! Just walk up if you lose the pole. Your thumb is essential"
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| joffy69 wrote: |
| If you use the pole strap correctly you shouldn't have any problems with it. |
I've often shown people how to use them 'correctly' such that the strap goes between forefinger and thumb, then under the palm of the hand and up over the wrist. I was taught that this is to prevent wrist injuries, never thought about the thumb though and not sure this would help.
Having said that, I never use the straps, and usually explain it to punters by simply pointing out that in the event of a major fall the last thing I want near me while tumbling is a long sharp pointy thing. Also, for off piste, a good tip if you're sliding out of control is to slide your hands down the pole and grip it near the basket, using the point to dig in like an ice axe to stop the slide and bring you to a stop with your head up. Can't do that if your straps are attached to your hands.
TBH I've never seen a thumb injured on snow though, but I remember hurting mine when I was first learning on a dry slope at Hemel back in the late 1980s, so this looks like a good idea. Are there still many dry slopes in the UK these days? I know Hemel and a couple of others were rebuilt as indoor snow slopes some years ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Formative years skiing (prior to snow) hooked both thumbs into Dendix at Aldershot dry slope, which was eye wateringly painful. Dont think I broke anything but took a while to recover to painless, weeks not days. Wouldn't want to do that again and can understand @mooster.moo, aims to mitigate.
Managed more Dendix, Sheffield, Chatham, Ringwood ? Bracknell, Hillington, Esher without incident, but favoured "drizzle" early morning damp conditions to make them more snow like. Most of them gone now.
Generally strong hands and thumb, dont use straps skiing at all though. Never seem compromised in usage terms, but enough experience to use the skiers book of excuses to mitigate embarrassing cock up, should they occur now
My original injury was not strap related, just rattling them down the Dendix like a cheese grater from classically low skilled fall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
When my OH badly hurt his thumb on Dendix at Gloucester ski slope the reception desk gave us a slip of paper with directions to A&E (this was before the days of sat nav). When we arrived they took one look at him and knew where he'd come from. He also once stabbed himself in the calf - puncture wound - a different story.
It is my belief that most of us ordinary sort of skiers, most of the time, do nothing useful with poles except shove ourselves along in the lift queue.
It's all very well talking about "rhythm and timing" but watch a good snowboarder - or a pisteur (they routinely ski without poles and there's nothing wrong with their rhythm and timing).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@mooster.moo, I'm not persuaded by the video - while this gadget might prevent a thumb break, as has been suggested by others it is likely to cause an injury elsewhere, such as the base of the thumb. I would want to see the statistics on thumb injuries in skiing, with a breakdown of the type of injury to see which is the biggest risk. I ski without pole straps in any case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| motyl wrote: |
| @mooster.moo, I'm not persuaded by the video - while this gadget might prevent a thumb break, as has been suggested by others it is likely to cause an injury elsewhere, such as the base of the thumb. I would want to see the statistics on thumb injuries in skiing, with a breakdown of the type of injury to see which is the biggest risk. I ski without pole straps in any case. |
That's what my concern was and what I'm now thinking esp after reading these comments. The injury is nothing to do with pole straps, as I don't use those, but more the speed through a slalom course and the impact of a fall. I currently use a Push thumb brace which actually works well and holds the thumb closer to the forefinger and doesn't allow it to expand so perhaps I'll just stick with this underneath my gloves (and maybe have to buy some slightly larger gloves!)
For ref: https://www.thinksport.co.uk/push-sports-thumb-brace.html
Thanks for your comments and suggestions everyone 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It was always talked about a lot at my dry slope, at least when we first started. I think for those of us who actually learned to ski, it wasn't an issue. I mean: it's probably more of a risk for novices. I think there used to be data out there suggesting novice snowboarders faced a greater risk of wrist injury than experienced people; perhaps the same thing works for skiers and their thumbs on plastic.
I can't imagine a "brace" type device would really work, if you think about the mechanics being discussed. That would have to be an extremely strong brace. Wouldn't it be better to just wear mitts and use tape to strap the thumb to your palm, so you can't stick it between the Dendix even if you try? Or learn not to fall that way.
| Quote: |
| It is my belief that most of us ordinary sort of skiers, most of the time, do nothing useful with poles except shove ourselves along in the lift queue. It's all very well talking about "rhythm and timing" but watch a good snowboarder - or a pisteur ... |
The FIS just mandated poles for some aerial events.
When I skied I had to learn to use poles; it didn't come naturally. The argument at the time was broadly as you have there, but it also had some thing about fore-aft positioning, and a little bit (initially) about "up-unweighting"...the pole plant was taught to us with almost a little hop up and forward. The pole used that way possibly had some value in positioning the shoulders, or preventing them rotating early, something like that.
It's an old thing, and slightly odd that it's still taught despite the underlying technology - and what you have to do to drive it - having changed quite considerably. Have they changed the way you're taught to use poles as ski technology has changed? In powder... I don't think they do much. I see a couple of different styles of skiing (bouncing/ not bouncing), but with poles, they just all wave them about pretty much the same way.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@phil_w, Actually a good use of poles can make a huge difference in a number of circumstances, and yes it is still something we teach. A couple of things immediately spring to mind, not an exhaustive list and in no particular order:
Timing - yes, as Pam suggests, they can help some people to get into the rhythm. I use it as a teaching tool on occasion to help with this at an intermediate level when someone is hesitating about their next turn. In slow/medium speed long turns at this level this is really all you're using them for, and it can often look like an ineffectual prod, but for some people it can make a difference, timing it along with the slight uplift as you cross the fall line and start the next turn.
Weight. It's a consistent adage amongst instructors that "the weight's too far back, it's always the weight too far back". OK, not for everyone, but it's one of the commonest faults and biggest hurdles for many adults, but thankfully one that's usually relatively easy to fix. By getting the student to plant the pole ahead and slightly downhill of them you're making them move their shoulders in that direction as well. And it can also dictate some up/down movement often lacking particularly in taller people, as they need to bend ze knees in order to actually get a positive plant of the pole, then as they cross over it (still planted) they will move upward to allow it to travel beneath them.
Turn point selection - particularly in mogulled terrain, by planting the pole on the next bump you're positioning yourself correctly to turn around it, and if you can look at the next turn ahead before you've completed the one you're on then that next aiming point will allow you to adjust your position as needed.
Rotation axis. In some situations, particularly narrow and steep off-piste sections, I will use the pole as a third point of contact, putting some weight downwards through it to help with a slight uplift of one or both skis. Think "jump turns"; pretty much impossible without poles.
These latter two go more obviously hand-in-hand with each other, I realise as I type...
For kids and even adults at an early stage I would normally not use them except to push along on the flat, sometimes even taking them away when they're being used as a crutch or an emergency brake.
Horses for courses, really, but they certainly have their place, both when learning and in more advanced, even extreme, skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@phil_w I understand that poles may not be a necessity for some but agree with @Chaletbeauroc that they can be very useful and necessary in others. In my case, they're needed for going through slalom gates. Having skied for 45 years, I'm no novice, but everyone can fall at times on dendix!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I didn't suggest that poles have no use. Just that from extensive observation I feel that most ordinary skiers, including me, do nothing very useful with them. I'd also suggest that the way some nervous adult beginners clutch them desperately to their chests, or jab them in the snow in front of them, to slow down, means they can be positively harmful.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
First day of ski school (Sol, early 80's), lunch break, me and another of the group decided to practice. Found our way down to the (so called) nursery slopes, which were sheet ice. Skied across the run, fell on the turn, stabbed my right thumb straight into the ice. Got up, skied the other way and did exactly the same on the other hand.
Both thumbs extremely painful on the second knuckle. Taught me to keep my thumbs tucked in. 
Both joints now feel the cold very quickly and a bit of arthritis, but not bad for my age.
Never use the straps except to hang the poles. Thought that's what they were for? 
Worked at Sheffield on ski patrol for a few years. Quite a number of accidents with both thumbs and poles, including one where I sent a young kid to A&E because the handle of the pole had caught him under his ribs as he fell on it. No puncture wound, but thought he might have internal bruising. Best to be safe and have him checked over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Simple solution to prevent "Dendix Thumb" - when I learnt at Pontypool in '76 (aaargh - am I that old  )...
We used to sew the tip of the thumb & forefinger of the glove together, so you couldn't catch your thumb in the matting
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Langerzug, my point is that splinting the thumb (that's what they appear to do) would surely just transfer the forces further up the arm, in much the same way that modern boots have transfered damage to the knee which previously tended to affect the lower leg. My question to any doctors/surgeons is whether they would prefer dealing with thumb or wrist injuries. I popped the UCL on my left hand on the EOSB two years ago. I skied the rest of the week, drove back to London and finally had the op to fix it 2 months later. I doubt I'd have been able to do that with a broken wrist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
