 Poster: A snowHead
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Interesting article:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/avalanche-threat-ski-risk#:~:text=With%20the%20climate%20crisis%20causing,right%20now%2C%E2%80%9D%20he%20says.
I suspect the skiing is getting riskier due to climate change was to generate more clicks than an article titled "technology is making skiing safer than ever", which seems more appropriate to the article.
I hadn't really considered the effects of climate change on avalanche risk too much. A quick look at some research papers seem it's pretty inclusive: "Climate change will significantly affect the duration and extent of seasonal snow cover in mountain regions. While these changes are predictable, the effects on the frequency and characteristics of avalanches remain elusive. The overall frequency of avalanches is likely to decrease. As snow cover decreases at lower elevations, the area where avalanches can occur decreases. At higher elevations, where snowfall is still abundant, and might increase in intensity, changes to the avalanche regime might be less prominent. The frequency of human-triggered avalanches might not change, because this depends mainly on the number of winter recreationists."
So maybe, maybe not. Probably depends where you are and what you are skiing.
I don't think anyone would be surprised to hear technology is helping. Better forecasting alone is huge.
Even with improvements in tech, I am amazed we are seeing the avalanche fatalities remain constant despite the huge increase of tourers. It seems like people are more risk taking than ever (back in the day people might wait a day or 2 after a storm for things to settle, whereas today everyone seems to be straight out to get first tracks - more people touring and competition for lines). While many are embracing the snow science and educating themselves, the percentage going out gung ho without any training or even equipment in some cases still seems high.
But quite an interesting article.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There's never been more information available to the public about the effects of smoking on health.
And yet people still smoke.
With a combination of increased cost, limited time in the mountains, and less 'powder days' in a season it would appear that people are not prepared to walk away from a potentially dangerous environment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boarder2020, hmmm, exactly the sort of article that my late father would have liked (he'd had to give up skiing, which he loved, about 1975) - a decent enough summary of the changes and mitigations, that are making an environment with massively more tourers and off piste skiers, safer than ever.
Not quite sure what it have to do with the climate though 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
With a combination of increased cost, limited time in the mountains, and less 'powder days' in a season it would appear that people are not prepared to walk away from a potentially dangerous environment.
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But yet we are seeing significantly more people touring than ever before and the avalanche fatality number stays the same.
While there is certainly more education, better equipment, and more tech (particularly in relation to forecasting), you might still think deaths would increase based on the numbers alone.
At least some of the avy deaths are just stupid cluelessness, rather than people that should know better refusing to walk away.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Less snow = less avalanches.
Avalanche deaths in Europe have fallen -20% in the past 40 years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Whitegold,
“Less snow = less avalanches.
Avalanche deaths in Europe have fallen -20% in the past 40 years.”
What has happened to the number of avalanches in the past 40 years?
Regarding this “revolutionary” Safeback breathing system, I’m sure I’ve read about something similar before several years ago.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
With a combination of increased cost, limited time in the mountains, and less 'powder days' in a season it would appear that people are not prepared to walk away from a potentially dangerous environment.
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But yet we are seeing significantly more people touring than ever before and the avalanche fatality number stays the same.
While there is certainly more education, better equipment, and more tech (particularly in relation to forecasting), you might still think deaths would increase based on the numbers alone.
At least some of the avy deaths are just stupid cluelessness, rather than people that should know better refusing to walk away. |
It's an element of ignorance, bravado, and I've got all the gear so I'm invincible IMHO.
Loads of information out there that's not being read
Easy to rent and/or purchase avalanche safety equipment but still too many heading out with nothing
Self-imposed objectives regardless of conditions
I'd love to see the stats that show there are more people touring
Wherever I've been it's been the same number
Selling the gear does not always translate to people using it for it's intended use
For example, I ski exclusively in touring boots and on touring bindings (both Dynafit) on a pair of twin tip freestyle skis
I spend most of my time within the resort boundary but use the touring equipment because it's comfortable, light, and suits my style of skiing.
Likewise I like the feel of a twin tip freestyle ski in all snow conditions but never go in the park.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
Less snow = less avalanches.
Avalanche deaths in Europe have fallen -20% in the past 40 years. |
More high altitude rain stabilizing the snow pack.
Greater freeze thaw activity stabilizing the snow pack.
Shorter season, less avalanches.
The article seems to be lost in translation somewhere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A bit of a puff piece. We don't know if there's an increase in objective risk at all because Wired could not be bothered to use google to find out.
Drones. No, that's wrong - I've read incident reports where drones were used in seasons gone by.
SBX? Maybe. There's no discussion of other products or the actual stats for this one or.... is this advertorial? What's the commercial arrangement on this piece? That's not an affiliate link I clicked, but I had to double check!
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| At least some of the avy deaths are just stupid cluelessness, rather than people that should know better refusing to walk away. |
I'm not sure that's a terribly helpful way of looking at things. Smoking is objectively a stupid thing to do, but it's a choice many non-stupid people make. I'm struggling to think of any example of where calling folk stupid is helpful. Very experienced folk often point out that however clever you think you are, we're all still playing a numbers game.
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| With a combination of increased cost, limited time in the mountains, and less 'powder days' in a season it would appear that people are not prepared to walk away from a potentially dangerous environment. But yet we are seeing significantly more people touring than ever before and the avalanche fatality number stays the same. |
You're suggesting that several unrelated things taken together magically cancel each other out. That sounds possible but unlikely - where's your evidence for that?
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@phil_w, i don't think the article is by any means perfect. Clearly there are some unreferenced suggestions without much to back them up. I just thought it raised some interesting points.
The article says VT started a drone program in 2019 and it's the "only one of its kind". Kind of vague. I wouldn't be that surprised if it's the only resort with a "drone program". I'd be equally surprised if there were no examples of backcountry skiers and search and rescue using drones earlier.
I'd never heard of sbx. Airbags probably made more of a difference and are much more common.
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I'm struggling to think of any example of where calling folk stupid is helpful.
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The guys, who ducked a rope at lake Louise to ski an area that was closed for high avalanche risk. No equipment either.
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You're suggesting that several unrelated things taken together magically cancel each other out. That sounds possible but unlikely - where's your evidence for that?
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No I'm actually asking why. Why is there an increase in numbers getting off piste (although perhaps this is not a correct assumption?) and deaths not increasing. I don't think there is enough data out there to make a serious conclusion. I thought it could be an interesting discussion to speculate why this might be the case.
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