 Poster: A snowHead
|
I'll be spending few months in VT this coming season, and starting to think about gear.
Like most 18 yo my budget is slim, and I would like to spend as little as possible while still buying gear I would enjoy using. If I learnt anything from browsing skiing forums is that boots should be fitted, I definitely plan on going to a boot fitter and I am willing to splurge on the boots. Which means I probably should save as much as possible on the skis (again, while still meeting the requirement of being quality and enjoyable).
I am under the impression that buying skis online should be cheaper than in resort, so I have tried to search and narrow the endless options.
probably useful context:
I am around 170 cm and 61 kg.
I have skied around 5 weeks, I manage to go down about everything on piste though not always in style. I like to be somewhat silly on skis (spinning, jumping on the side of the piste, trying to ski only on the tails). I haven't really been off piste much, but I would like to experience and gain confidence off piste during the season.
Firstly, after some reading online I have decided to limit my search to all mountain skis that are 160 - 170 cm long and have a waist width of between 85 - 100 mm (feel free to correct my ranges, I feel like a lot of the information is mainly based on North America experience), also I prefer skis with rocker/camber/rocker.
Then, with no real good reason I've picked a few brands that I recognize and found their skis that fit my hard criteria.
the list is as follows:
volkl kendo 88
volkl M6 mantra 96
atomic bent 90
atomic maverick ti 95
atomic maverick ti 88
nordica enforcer 94
salomon qst 92
black crows Mirus cor 87
black crows serpo 93
black crows camox 97
after I have read reviews about each, I really didn't found a favorite or two (though the Mirus cor does sound the most fun and is the coolest looking by far, its ability to preform as a 1 ski quiver was questioned).
Honestly I came to think that it doesn't really matters which ski I'll get, I have nothing to compare it to, apart from rentals which I have never bothered noticing how they felt.
This is where I am looking for reassurance, would I ultimately be happy with any of these and should just get the cheapest? (which btw currently atleast the QST 92mm 168 cm wins in that department by a mile as I have found last years model for 300€)
Those are the prices I found for those interested:
volkl kendo 88 (€640)
volkl M6 mantra 96 (€670)
atomic bent 90 (€430)
atomic maverick ti 95 (€710)
atomic maverick ti 88 (€600)
nordica enforcer 94 (€600)
salomon qst 92 (€300)
black crows Mirus cor 87 (€870)
black crows serpo 93 (€830)
black crows camox 97 (€750)
Also, some of the shops offer the skis as a set with bindings. do I need to take the time researching bindings or anything goes? should I even get the bindings in the set considering I yet to have the boots to give the dimensions of for mounting, or am I just better of buying bindings in resort with the boots?
any other tips regarding everything I should know as a first time (almost) seasonaire would be highly appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
When are you going out and wear are you doing it there (apart from skiing). It would be a good chance to blag some skis to try from a hire shop in return for sending punters their way, if that's part of your remit? Or borrow some from folk who are already over there?
If you are buying, I'd go for a decent piste ski (sub 75mm) because it will help you learn better than a wider ski. Your technique is likely to improve significantly during an extended period and you probably won't like the ski you started with by the end of your stay.... Also, I can't stand all mountain skis!
Have fun.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
As someone who is also light, this would be my advice to someone with 5 weeks experience, who is about to get a lot more:
- As stated above, making Boots a priority is very wise.
- Try to get the odd lesson
- IME. It absolutely matters what ski you go for. There is a big difference between a forgiving light playful ski, with no metal in it; and a heavy, damp charger, with 2 sheets of metal. If you are light, you will need to be going fairly fast to bend the latter. There are of course skis that fall somewhere in between the extremes.
- You are in the right place to try stuff out...and you will be drawn to skis that suit you.
- The width will depend on how much you intend skiing away from the Piste...but you are light, so can get away with narrower skis than you would if 90kg
- You need skis that will give you confidence at the start, but have enough headroom to improve - and improve you will. You will be a completely different skier at the end of the period, than you were at the start. You don't want skis that remove your confidence at the start; or that you outgrow after a month or two.
- With 5 weeks experience, I wouldn't go too wide...and if going AM, get ones that are very Piste oriented, like the 82 or 86 Elan Wingman and Rossignol Experience. Both brands have a softer and stiffer version. I agree with @Klamm Franzer about learning the ropes on a more carving type ski.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 19-11-23 21:02; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Check out the old model Blizzard Rustler 9 and the Ripstick 88.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Agree that you should progress on a 68-72ish waist carving ski. That is grand, even if you want to ski 'off piste' at the edges of the piste. Being able to easily roll edge to edge and bend a narrower carving ski will be much more enjoyable and build technique.
If you really must for slightly fatter I agree the cheaper (not CTi) Wingman 82 is a great ski. Elan skis in general are brilliant value for money, I'm a big fan.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@IhaveAchance,
Firstly definitely spend the bulk of your budget on boots, but also remember that after a couple of months skiing you will probably need a more advanced boot next season. For me the next consideration for your budget would be lessons, lessons and more lessons because that is how you will improve fastest. I know it sounds boring but the worst thing you could do is try to self teach and end up in a position where you have ingrained bad habits to a point that it is a monumental effort to undo it all and then learn the good habits.
Last on the list would be skis. They are definitely the sexiest piece of equipment and the manufacturers have an easy job selling them as a result but they probably have the least effect upon your progress so my advise would be find something secondhand to start with. I think the waist widths you are looking at are definitely on the fat side - 73 -83 might be better range, especially given you seem to weigh as much as a feather and should be able to get a lot of float in powder on a relatively narrow ski. Lastly I would also consider twin tips given you seem to have a taste for tricks and flips 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@IhaveAchance, the QST 92 is ideal for what you want at that price. But not in a 168cm, you should buy the 176cm. Don't go below head height on a twin rocker/riser ski - by the end of the season you'll be a 20+ weeks skier and 168cm is too short, even at your weight.
The Bent 90 probably works, the Nordica 94 definitely does but the lengths aren't as suitable for you, the Black Crows will have the most theoretical credibility with your seasonaire mates but 5 week skiers don't really have credibility - it's more likely you'll get an "all the gear no idea tag" than respect. I don't think they're a suitable development ski at all and €570 buys a lot of seasonaire beer!
I assume you're looking at the QST 92 on Sport Conrad - they have the 176cm too and that's ideal. Get a suitable binding with the deal but don't have it fitted - you can get that done in resort for about €25 once you've got your boots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@IhaveAchance, And a word on bindings - if the boots you get have grip walk soles make sure the bindings are compatible 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Good point above - get GW or MNC bindings then it won't matter what boots you get.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
the Black Crows will have the most theoretical credibility with your seasonaire mates but 5 week skiers don't really have credibility - it's more likely you'll get an "all the gear no idea tag" than respect. I don't think they're a suitable development ski at all and €570 buys a lot of seasonaire beer!
|
Agree 100% - if you must have Black Crows then the only one I would consider at your level is the Vertis. Even then and having skied both, the Elan Wingman 82 Ti is a much better ski. Plus Elan are way better value and so you won't cry when some tramps over it in a lift queue and scuffs the topsheet.
As for bindings, you'll struggle to buy any binding in the recent model years that isn't GW compatible. It is the new assumed standard for all boots nowadays.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sorry, recommending a 90mm+ wide ski as a do it all for someone with 5 weeks of experience is madness.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| clarky999 wrote: |
....the reality is that when in resort for a season you're going to end up skiing off-piste/in the park at least as much as onpiste*, and as you don't have the budget for a quiver you can't really afford to get such a specialised ski.
|
That is the other side of the argument - and it absolutely should be made....even at the risk of confusing the OP.
The middle ground, is around 86 underfoot....and at the OP's weight, should give reasonable float.
The problem is - the ski that is best suited for the ability of the OP at the start of the season, is not necessarily the ski that is best suited at the end.
I suppose it depends on the standard the OP is at.
I think it's fair to say that learning the Carving ropes is better done on a more carving orientated ski....which then gives the foundation for improvement in all other areas. I suspect that the Seasonnaires you are referring to, are already very competent skiers, with many weeks under their belt. Unless the OP has had 5 weeks of intensive Private Lessons, they will still be at the Intermediate stage (at least at the start).
I think the OP has some head-scratching to do, re what his goals are.....and why testing stuff out is important.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| Sorry, recommending a 90mm+ wide ski as a do it all for someone with 5 weeks of experience is madness. |
No it isn't, it's pragmatic.
If they had 5 weeks of experience and were buying skis to go on holiday with I'd agree with you, but not as a single pair of skis for an 18 year old for a whole a season.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| Sorry, recommending a 90mm+ wide ski as a do it all for someone with 5 weeks of experience is madness. |
I've got to laugh, I've had some right rows on here over the years saying exactly the same thing, telling people they should be on a mid 70s ski for development rather than something wider.
But the OP's 18 and not interested in technical development, they
| IhaveAchance wrote: |
| like to be somewhat silly on skis (spinning, jumping on the side of the piste, trying to ski only on the tails). I haven't really been off piste much, but I would like to experience and gain confidence off piste during the season. |
A narrow, piste biased ski that'll likely have a flat, mostly straight cut tail and comparatively stiff flex pattern simply isn't going to meet the brief, so it is what it is. Might as well just answer the OP's question.
The OP'll know by the end of the season if they want to get more technical or not and then they can invest in a higher level piste ski that's more appropriate to their end of season ski ability level rather than where they are now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I'm going to take a completely different line. Depending on what you're doing in resort you might find you can beg, borrow or steal, some skis. My son, when cooking in Val d'Isere, admittedly in very high end places, skied most of the season on a pair which a punter had deliberately left behind in the chalet, having bought himself some flash ones. They were knackered and died when he had a huge crash up on the Grand Motte and had to ski back down into Val d'Isere on the remaining one. He was a good skier (being on one ski didn't slow him down much though he did swap legs every now and then and gave the fatally injured ski to his young cousin to carry) but wouldn't have spent big money on skis. You sound a bit like the same sort of skier - just going for it. You'll be fine, whatever you're on, having not noticed what you've rented before. You can try some skis belonging to the mates you end up skiing with, and get a better idea of what you want before splashing out.
Have fun!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@Je suis un Skieur, You have nailed the position exactly.
There are 2 ways the OP can go. A lot of the forum is made up of older skiers who know the importance of a good technical foundation and find it hard to get past that.
Going for a wide, soft ski to have fun on and worry about the technical stuff later, just seems to be the wrong way round....but may suit the brief of the OP.
At least the arguments for each position have been made.....and either the case for technical development first has been made convincingly - or it hasn't. Either way, I hope the OP has a ball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Or split the difference - buy the QSTs, rent a pair of basic beginner carvers for a week or two, get a few lessons, then realise you were right to buy the QSTs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm with @clarky999 and @Je suis un Skieur here.
OP is a young kid who wants "a do it all ski" not a technical piste ski.
And I say that as an old fart - all be it one with the two older teens.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
As a few others have suggested - I'd wait until you're in resort.
If you're there working you might just get given a pair as part of the job, or a good deal on a pair from a hire shop in exchange for saying "I get my skis from XXX" if any punters turn up and ask where they should get skis from.
And even if you're not working there you will have an EU address, so can buy online and get them shipped there. Yes if it's just an appartment block you might need to take a off the mountain to take delivery/take a day trip to collect them - but you WON'T have to pay the UK import duty!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the opinions, honestly this thread convinced me that I am right. There's no one right answer and the suggestions vary wildly. I'm going to embrace the beloved  it mentality, which usually results in me being more content than when I overthink and compare endlessly.
That being said, I do think I should at least give some thought to this point:
| Quote: |
the QST 92 is ideal for what you want at that price. But not in a 168cm, you should buy the 176cm. Don't go below head height on a twin rocker/riser ski - by the end of the season you'll be a 20+ weeks skier and 168cm is too short, even at your weight.
|
Most of the advice I have read suggest that skis should be between head to chin height, are they just more relevant to flatter skis?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@IhaveAchance,
Yes that is more relevant to fully cambered skis. With a tip and tail rocker (and the amount of rocker varies quite a lot between skis) then the length of the effective 'carving edge' is shorter so go longer with this type of ski.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| IhaveAchance wrote: |
| Thanks for all the opinions, honestly this thread convinced me that I am right. There's no one right answer and the suggestions vary wildly. I'm going to embrace the beloved it mentality, which usually results in me being more content than when I overthink and compare endlessly. |
As you have said, there is no one "Right" answer - but - once you have decided what you want from a ski, then it is much easier to make a recommendation that is "Right for what you will be skiing".
Now that you are comfortable with your original brief, I think the QST will work exceptionally well. As Ski Essentials have said, "If you don't know what ski to buy, get the QST 92". From their description:
- It is playful, fun and a doddle to turn
- It will be very versatile across all conditions
- It's profile means it will have decent float, especially for someone light
- It's softer flex and Tail Rocker make it a good bump ski and very easy to skid/pivot
- It's turn radius (15m @ 176), means it is versatile and nimble....At 92 underfoot it is still not overly wide
- It has enough headroom that you won't outgrow it. It does have some metal in it
- It is decent value
- I would absolutely go with the 176....for the reasons given above. It will feel short On Piste and feel its full length Off Piste
One thing I would advise, given the skis will be brand new for a while - get a Ski Lock (helps stop the opportunist / being taken in error) and try and mix and match with someone who you are skiing with.
If your goal is to have a fun, forgiving ski, that you can take anywhere and won't outgrow - it should be at the top of the list.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Mon 20-11-23 19:49; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@IhaveAchance, I doubt if the effective edge length on piste of a 176cm QST 92 is much more than about 160cm. Something like a Head supershape piste ski in a 168cm would also be about 160cm, maybe 162cm. So apart from the obvious width/flex differences they ski similarly on piste and are both between head and chin height for effective length.
The difference is that the piste ski would only gain around 4cm off piste whereas the QST 92 is going to gain around 10cm, and that's where you want the extra length to give you float. It'll still only ski around 170cm in most off piste conditions unless it's the very deepest and freshest snow. And if you get some of that, you'll be more than grateful for something that skis a bit above your head height because you'll need it!
Don't make the mistake of buying the punter length (168cm) for your stats, 176cm is the seasonaire length.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 20-11-23 23:26; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| IhaveAchance wrote: |
| Thanks for all the opinions, honestly this thread convinced me that I am right. There's no one right answer and the suggestions vary wildly. I'm going to embrace the beloved it mentality, which usually results in me being more content than when I overthink and compare endlessly. |
As you have said, there is no one "Right" answer - but - once you have decided what you want from a ski, then it is much easier to make a recommendation that is "Right for what you will be skiing".
Now that you are comfortable with your original brief, I think the QST will work exceptionally well. As Ski Essentials have said, "If you don't know what ski to buy, get the QST 92". From their description:
- It is playful, fun and a doddle to turn
- It will be very versatile across all conditions
- It's profile means it will have decent float, especially for someone light
- It's softer flex and Tail Rocker make it a good bump ski and very easy to skid/pivot
- It's turn radius (15m @ 176), means it is versatile and nimble....At 92 underfoot it is still not overly wide
- It has enough headroom that you won't outgrow it. It does have some metal in it
- It is decent value
- I would absolutely go with the 176....for the reasons given above. It will feel short On Piste and feel its full length Off Piste
One thing I would advise, given the skis will be brand new for a while - get a Ski Lock (helps stop the opportunist / being taken in error) and try and mix and match with someone who you are skiing with.
If your goal is to have a fun, forgiving ski, that you can take anywhere and won't outgrow - it should be at the top of the list. |
that's one hell of a reassuring reply.
Thanks everyone! truly appreciated
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@IhaveAchance, The idea of putting forward the alternative argument, was to get you to think about it before going ahead with your original brief.
The assessment of the ski is from Ski Essential's description, as I have no direct experience of this model....but their description matches others that I've seen.
Come back and tell us what you bought and how it's working out. Updates of your progression throughout the season would also be welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@IhaveAchance, Go for the Volkl Kendo. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| skimastaaah wrote: |
| @IhaveAchance, Go for the Volkl Kendo. |
That would be a good choice I think.
That said, I personally would go round the hire shops and see what they have from last season's stock that they would sell you cheap. Then buy something late season in the sales when you know exactly what you want after your skiing has improved massively. Which it will if you want to work at it.
And yes - have a great time!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Another vote for the QST's as a great all round option that you can grow into and will still feel like a strong enough ski as you progress.
I like the QST's as a fun on and off daily ski so much that I've bought 2 pairs including the latest version. I'm about the same height / weight as you and was skiing on the 169's before which never felt too short for most things (the older models didn't have quite as much tip and tail rocker as the latest model anyway). Really good on piste, fun in the bumps and through the trees and definitely enough float. I do have longer / fatter skis for the big days but doubt you'll need that until you have your first season under your belt.
There's good advice been posted about possibly waiting until you get to resort and picking up a cheap pair and working out what suits you best over the season. But if you are really keen on the QST's then I was looking at listing my older ones for sale (the orange / black ones, 2019 I think) with Warden bindings.
This isn't the equipment sales thread so PM me if interested for details. Good luck with whatever you choose.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| snowheid wrote: |
@IhaveAchance,
Firstly definitely spend the bulk of your budget on boots, but also remember that after a couple of months skiing you will probably need a more advanced boot next season. For me the next consideration for your budget would be lessons, lessons and more lessons because that is how you will improve fastest. I know it sounds boring but the worst thing you could do is try to self teach and end up in a position where you have ingrained bad habits to a point that it is a monumental effort to undo it all and then learn the good habits.
Last on the list would be skis. They are definitely the sexiest piece of equipment and the manufacturers have an easy job selling them as a result but they probably have the least effect upon your progress so my advise would be find something secondhand to start with. I think the waist widths you are looking at are definitely on the fat side - 73 -83 might be better range, especially given you seem to weigh as much as a feather and should be able to get a lot of float in powder on a relatively narrow ski. Lastly I would also consider twin tips given you seem to have a taste for tricks and flips |
Just stumbled upon this excellent thread and going to comment even though it’s out of date as it might be relevant for the next Snowhead doing a season.
Personal question first though. Snowheid which Scott skis are you Skiing on in the photo sharkyMark posted in GnarliBug and do you rate them? I’ve had the sagebrush and currently use the Slight 100s.
Back to topics
1. If you’re doing a season. Start on absolutely anything you can blag at home or from your employer then try out whatever your mates have got and see what suits your style.
2. You probably won’t be able to afford lessons but ask around and see if you can find someone who will moonlight as an instructor for some favours that you can offer. If you can’t do that find a girlfriend or boyfriend who can Ski brilliantly and make use of them. Bartering your skills whatever they are is a very large part of living a season in the ski resort. You can probably borrow or earn a pair of old skis for a Shop simply by doing a few hours work for them in the evenings.
3. If you actually want to buy some skis, I’d thoroughly recommend Ski d’occasion (French for secondhand skis). They sell everything from Test skis that have been used for less than a week through to some real bargains that I’ve seen a seasons Hire. I bought two pairs of extra rental Rossignol soul seven skis for less than a week’s Hire 10 years ago and my wife and son still use them for off piste.
4. You can also pick up some amazing deals on eBay during the off-season. Also, if you’re going to buy for a shop in Europe, get them to deliver them directly to wherever you’re going to stay which will save you both on postage and UK input duty thanks to Brexit.
5. Do whatever you can to make friends with a Ski technician who can edge and wax them for free for you.
6. do six months of Duolingo in the language of the place you’re going to wherever it is as that will give you a much much better chance of negotiating deals with the locals.
I know I’m writing this in retrospect so I hope you had an absolute fabulous season in one of the best resorts in the world.
Maybe we will get Ski together in the coming season.
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
A lot of people don't really relate ski width to skier weight, but I think it is important to remember that wider skis were "invented" to give better "float" in deeper snow & weight/ski surface area = float
At 61kg, you are about 2/3 of my weight, I ski on 110s so 80s will give you a similar float to me on my 110s.
I bought my 110s as last years graphics, £530 instead of £800 list
My first wider skis were 95s, 2nd hand but virtually unused for £175.
Keep an eye on fb market & ebay before you go.
Once in resort, you will have plenty of opportunity to try all manner of skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@rickboden, and how is anyone heading for a season going to find this thread? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| tangowaggon wrote: |
| At 61kg, you are about 2/3 of my weight, I ski on 110s so 80s will give you a similar float to me on my 110s. |
Not saying you are wrong but does it really work like that?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@rickboden, Ebay has a vast range of out of season bargains, and around now is the best of times prior to the new stock arriving. And don't worry about buying from the US, some shipping costs are the same as the EU. The trick is to know your skis!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Never had this problem when I started skiing, skis were all the same width! Default length was 200cm.....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
and now I think back to my 18yo self I made some terrible ski choices but no one would have told me different at the time... so new advice: skiing is all about having fun - just go for it 
