 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All, I have just received a French speeding fine, 8 months after the event. Am I obligated to pay this? I was in a hire car if that makes any difference.
I’m sure in the UK you have to be contacted within a certain time no?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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wont the hire company dock it from your CC at some point?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Coco, i'm waiting for one from last New Years day, and one from the back end of April. We've since upped sticks from the UK, so not sure what'll happen with those 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ignore it@Coco,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You were speeding, you got caught, pay the fine, its not a lot of money..........
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It is actually, €144. I’m merely ask of the legal technicalities of receiving a fine 8 months after the event
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That's quite a lot. How much over the limit were you?
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| Coco wrote: |
Hi All, I have just received a French speeding fine, 8 months after the event. Am I obligated to pay this? I was in a hire car if that makes any difference.
I’m sure in the UK you have to be contacted within a certain time no? |
do not know for France but e.g. in Germany is 3 Months.
But...there was a hire car. So the city start the process maybe in 2 months? but then they have to wait for the answer for the hire company, then this and that ... really do not know when officially this time limit is overpassed.
However i had such a fine in 2011 from Austria, and didnt paid it. It is not that i do not wanted, i totally forget it.
After 1,5 year it was almost doubled . The amount was not a bit deal at all...from 10 Euro i think i was 22,7 ??? or something like this.
I had to pay it, or choose to go to prison in AUT for 32 days or something like that.
So i suppose if you do not pay, it will come back sometime...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Who is the bill from?
It’s normally the hire car company. Normally, as Davidof says, they will charge your card.
If it’s from the French authorities, they have got your name and address (and probably ID details) from the Hire Car company, in which case, if you want to travel to France again you’d better pay up. The amount my rise if you don’t.
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| Coco wrote: |
| It is actually, €144. |
Christ, what speed were you doing? last one I got was 60 & if you paid it in 28 days it was 30.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Coco wrote: |
| It is actually, €144. I’m merely ask of the legal technicalities of receiving a fine 8 months after the event |
In the UK, the 14-day limit for a NIP is based on its delivery to the vehicle owner (hire/lease company), not the delivery to the driver.
If you're looking for loopholes, these are not the droids you are looking for.
In my experience, the hire company charges an admin fee for the enormous task of passing your name and address onto the authorities.
You are then independently responsible for paying the fine. Since I've always paid mine immediately, I've no idea what happens if you don't. However, I do recall that the fine goes up the longer you faff around looking for loopholes. Yours may already have increased by 2-4x. I've no idea if the police have an option to recover from the rental company, but if they do, you definitely don't want to find the fine has risen to €750 by the time they do.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I expect you may have trouble renting from the same company again if you don't pay.
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| Coco wrote: |
| I’m sure in the UK you have to be contacted within a certain time no? |
It's complex, but in 99.9% of cases in the UK they have 14 days to contact he Registered Keeper of the Vehicle in the first instance. This may or may not be the driver of the car at the time of the offence. In a hire car case, the car is probably leased so a finance company, so in the first instance the finance co will get the initial request for information on the driver.
The Finance co will then nominate the Hire Car Company as the 'person' responsible for the vehicle at the time. The police will then send a second letter to the Hire Car Co. There is NO TIME LIMIT on this second (and subsequent) letter(s).
The Hire Car Co will respond to the second letter by grassing "Coco" up. The police will then send a third letter to Coco requesting (ordering!) Coco to either grass themselves up, or to nominate someone else who was driving at the time. There is NO TIME LIMIT on this third (and subsequent) letter(s).
If Coco nominates someone else (there could be 2 or more drivers on the hire car contract) then the police will send out a fourth letter to whoever Coco nominates, demanding that the nominee grasses themselves up, or nominates someone else. There is NO TIME LIMIT on this fourth (and subsequent) letter(s).
The police letters continue down the chain of responsibility until someone grasses themselves up. There is NO TIME LIMIT on any letters except the initial one to the Registered Keeper.
Once someone has owned up to driving at the time , they will either offer a speed awareness course, issue a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty, or be taken to court. If the offender 'fails' the speed awareness course, or doesn't pay the CoFP, then it goes to court.
The only other time limit is that they have 6 months to bring any charges to Magistrates court. They will NOT offer a CoFP or allow a speed awarness course if more than (about) 4 months have passed since the date of the offence. It will almost certainly go straight to court because they won't want the case to 'time out' at 6 months.
So yes, a UK speeding case would have timed out by now.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Coco wrote: |
| It is actually, €144. |
Christ, what speed were you doing? last one I got was 60 & if you paid it in 28 days it was 30. |
If my French translation is correct, it has already been increased, although this is the first letter i have received
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| chocksaway wrote: |
Who is the bill from?
It’s normally the hire car company. Normally, as Davidof says, they will charge your card.
If it’s from the French authorities, they have got your name and address (and probably ID details) from the Hire Car company, in which case, if you want to travel to France again you’d better pay up. The amount my rise if you don’t. |
This.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Their is no time limit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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There*
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Coco wrote: |
| If my French translation is correct, it has already been increased, although this is the first letter i have received |
€144 is an odd amount - doesn't match any of the official late payment fees. https://www.frenchentree.com/living-in-france/driving/driving-offences-and-penalties-in-france-fines-tickets-points/
Is the letter from the hire co or the Police? I'd certainly pay it if it's the Police, if they've managed to track you down to the UK, you don't need any crap at customs next time you go.
Might be worth contacting them first to explain that it's the first you've heard of it and ask to pay it at the original reduced "quick payment" level. I find the French are far more reasonable when it comes to these things than the UK.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In Portugal it’s two years  . And they ask who was driving. After 6 or 9 months I always tell them that I don’t remember if it was me or wife. Because I don’t.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You were speeding, you got caught, pay the fine, its not a lot of money.......... |
This. Absolutely this. Can you really not envisage an obvious way that this could escalate in such a way that a future trip to France is completely ruined? Just pay up!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Check the new rules after Brexit in 2021.
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| thecramps wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You were speeding, you got caught, pay the fine, its not a lot of money.......... |
This. Absolutely this. Can you really not envisage an obvious way that this could escalate in such a way that a future trip to France is completely ruined? Just pay up! |
Both of these!
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My advice would be to get it sorted, either pay it or appeal it, especially if the letter is from the French authorities rather than from the hire car company as this means your details have been passed on.
I received a hire car speeding fine through the post from a trip to Holland a few years ago.. I was sent 3 letters but I ignored them. 18 months later I went back to Amsterdam for a business trip (no hire car) and on my way back through passport control I was stopped and taken to the police office in the airport, I spent the first 15 minutes trying to remember what I might have done wrong the night before  .
I was told I had an outstanding speeding fine, I actually wanted to contest it as I wasn't driving, it was my mate driving but the car was booked in my name as I had a broken wrist (après ski accident in an Andorra night club).
The office said 'no problem' you can contest the fine in court tomorrow but tonight you will stay in a cell.......10 minutes later I had paid the 60 euro fine and still made my flight home.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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That's annoying. If you get caught 20 km over or less, it's just 45 euros but they only give you 15 days to pay, it escalates quickly from there.
Living in France I get a few tickets a year. It's inevitable. I got one last summer doing 86 in an 80 zone. Grr.
My latest was 105 in a 90 zone. It had just gone from 110 and I saw the sign too late. Did I mention I hate speeding cameras? I'm all for road safety but it's really just a way to generate revenue. 86 in an 80 is honestly just speedometer error.
I guess I'd just pay it and forget it.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
That's annoying. If you get caught 20 km over or less, it's just 45 euros but they only give you 15 days to pay, it escalates quickly from there.
Living in France I get a few tickets a year. It's inevitable. I got one last summer doing 86 in an 80 zone. Grr.
My latest was 105 in a 90 zone. It had just gone from 110 and I saw the sign too late. Did I mention I hate speeding cameras? I'm all for road safety but it's really just a way to generate revenue. 86 in an 80 is honestly just speedometer error.
I guess I'd just pay it and forget it. |
Everybody in Chamonix, and I do mean everybody, has been caught by the current temporary camera in Les Houches. And it goes off at 53kph, sometimes 52kph - Well under the exeptable error of your car speedo!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My feeling has always been don't do the crime if you can't do the fine. But having said that, all of the fines I've had in France on the roadside I've paid. None of the fines that have come through the post have been paid. But they've all been in my own vehicle though. 144euros, hm, that's got to be well over a ton ten on the autoroute, good effort!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We got our speeding fine in 2 weeks from France €45 - I was not driving but even I was amazed at how efficient they were in billing.
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Does the fact lots of people who live in France seem to get regular speeding fines but without getting banned, mean the French don't have the same licence points system that we have in the UK?
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You know it makes sense.
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I've had a couple of speeding tickets in France that arrived very late to the UK, one each side of Brexit. I contacted them and argued the delay wasn't my fault and they gave me the minimum penalty. I didn't fancy any issues at the border or with long stay visa applications
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Idris wrote: |
| Everybody in Chamonix, and I do mean everybody, has been caught by the current temporary camera in Les Houches. And it goes off at 53kph, sometimes 52kph - Well under the exeptable error of your car speedo! |
There is no acceptable error for a speedo to under-read; European regulations prohibit this. They can over-read by up to 10% (i.e. can read 55 when you're doing 50) but not the opposite.
The French speeding tickets I've had, have all stated the speed _after_ the deduction of a ?5%? tolerance, so when it said 92kph, I was actually doing 97kph.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| snowdave wrote: |
There is no acceptable error for a speedo to under-read; European regulations prohibit this. They can over-read by up to 10% (i.e. can read 55 when you're doing 50) but not the opposite.
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This is true for EU type approval, but incorrect for US type approval. The US regs are +/- 5%.
It then gets complicated because there are various trade treaties between the US and EU whereby each agree to accept the others type approval standards for imported cars. Therefore it is possible to legally buy a car in the EU which is/was produced in the USA to US rules which could read 5% over. In the UK VOSA queried this with the DoT (whilst we were still in the EU) and were basically told not to rock the boat.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Judwin, thanks, wasn't aware of that. Does it, in reality, apply to anything other than early Tesla models? Can't think of many volume vehicles manufactured in the US and sold in Europe.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just to add I do about 15-20K per year in France and have never had a speeding ticket, so it is possible but I agree that speed limits are not always clear and you do have to pay attention.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@snowdave, Certainly not Tesla I was told about it over 10 years ago. I think the case in point was actually either a BMW or Mercedes, manufactured in the USA. The inspector that picked up the issue was a German on an exchange posting to VOSA (or DVSA or whatever they're called this week) who was from either Stuttgart or Munich 
There is a similar story about Japanese manufactured cars and their remote locking key fobs. Supposedly some of them use (or used) frequency bands not approved for that use in the EU.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You were speeding, you got caught, pay the fine, its not a lot of money.......... |
I bet that you're a laugh to have a beer with.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You were speeding, you got caught, pay the fine, its not a lot of money.......... |
I bet that you're a laugh to have a beer with. |
We have no idea what he's like down the pub, but he's got this right.
Pay the €144 and the problem goes away forever.
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I think the OP's long since either paid up or gone into hiding. Alert Interpol 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mollerski, like chancing an overnight stay in a French cell, rather than just face the deed?
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| ster wrote: |
| @Mollerski, like chancing an overnight stay in a French cell, rather than just face the deed? |
Extradition for non payment of a speeding ticket?? Be sensible. 
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