 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys,
your advice will be much appreciated.  I'm a mid-level on-piste-only skier with a desire to grow my carving technique gradually within the next 2-3 years.
My initial plan was to buy HEAD Shape e-V8. It is great: fun, prefers shorter turns, forgiving, but not for newbies, i.e. is good to improve skillls. Actually "unstable toes at high speeds" was the only negative characteristics I've heard of V8 so far.
However, on the last week I saw a couple of extremely positive reviews of a new Rossignol FORZA 70, which seems to have (at least this is my understanding) all the benefits of V8, but also "stability" and "good for both short and long turns" on top of that. The price is almost identical for both skis.
1. Which model would you recommend and why?
2. I'm not good yet in converting ski geometry into its behavior and I know it's not only about the geometry, but how do you think they differ from that perspecitve? V8: 130-75-112; FORZA 70: 136-78-112
Thank you for your comments!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Probably not a lot of difference. The slightly bigger nose might mean the Forza hooks up a bit earlier and gives you some marginally greater lift in soft snow but it's all pretty much infinitesimal for a mid level skier. What you ate for breakfast probably has a greater impact on absolute performance.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Probably not a lot of difference. The slightly bigger nose might mean the Forza hooks up a bit earlier and gives you some marginally greater lift in soft snow but it's all pretty much infinitesimal for a mid level skier. |
Thank you! But you didn't have personal experience with those 2 models, right? [not to doubt your words, just to understand whether or not I can ask your personal impression]
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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No absolutely no experience of the particular skis. Not really my bag.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I doubt 90% of skiiers will be able to tell the difference between the 2. You don't need ultra expensive skis to learn how to carve.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| luanb wrote: |
| if you have found the Head Prestige to be above your skils, I don't know why you're looking at the Forza 70, the clue is in the name, those skis are meant to be on edge at 70 degrees! for true experts only. |
Didn't know that - thank you! Neither Rossignol nor HEAD write this on their websites (afaik). And what is the degree for HEAD Shape e-V8, don't you occasionally know?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@luanb Thank you for sharing these links - good stuff for Saturday evening! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ToxicInDub, a very intresting question .. but its impossible to answer.
They are both new models and they both sound fantastic so they will be great on the boots of the right skiier.
You say that you are a "mid level" wannabe a better carver.
Sounds a bit like me.
Here is what you need to do...
Find the shop in the resort where you are going.. that sells both of these skis.
And get them to rent them to you. If they are any good they will let you demo them for a few days. Then you'll know if you are right for them and which ones you like best.
I'm fond of Head Supershape Magnums, they always give me a good time .. but I don't know what this model is about.
I also like Hero's but sometimes they dont like me.
I always rent my skis these days, so I can try different stuff that's brand new rather than dragging my boards to the airport.
You only need your own skis if you are lucky enough to be able to drive to the alps every weekend.
So if you work in Stuttgart, Munich or Nuremberg you can treat yourself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
Find the shop in the resort where you are going.. that sells both of these skis.
And get them to rent them to you. If they are any good they will let you demo them for a few days. |
OMG, I wish I lived in this ideal world with unicorns and fairies...
| DrLawn wrote: |
So if you work in Stuttgart, Munich or Nuremberg you can treat yourself. |
Harmisch-Partenkirschen (so - Munich) is close to me, so if you can recommend a shop in the area that can also rent skis I will be grateful. Otherwise, I can only imagine calling them in advance, and there are maybe 30-40 of them around Munich, so this approach is definitely for those who live there and speak German.
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Hi @ToxicInDub, I forgot to say ... "Welcome to Snowheads!"
I'm not familiar with the Harmisch-Partenkirschen area although I used to live in a street called "Zugspitze Strasse".
I'd recommend that you PM @munich_irish as he'll point you to a ski shop that will let you rent unicorns and leprechauns.
I've not made this up ... its common practice with ski shops to let you demo skis before you buy them.
And discount the rental price against the new skis.
If your living down that way go over the Ruette pass and spend a weekend testing skis at Hintertux in November.
Then you can tell us all how you go on with them.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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True race skis are really heavy, the race plate and binding being pretty hefty. Light is not really what you want in a carver but then for general resort skiing light and flex maybe what you need to handle bumps etc.
A true SL ski is a bit of a pig in moguls for instance despite the short length and skinny waist.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rossignol and Head are 2 brands that I have always liked. I'm light (10 stone), so I look for skis that are stable, yet fun and manageable/forgiving.
The closest I've skied to the Head ski you've listed, is the Magnum (which I highly rated) - It is probably quite similar, though a little less forgiving (it's still IMV suitable for decent Intermediate level upwards). I suspect that the Head V8s would suit you very well.
From what I have read, the Rossi Forza 70 is an Expert Level ski, so I agree with @luanb. There seems to be 2 alternatives: The standard version with the Konect system and the version with the R22 Race Plate (which you linked to). The R22 Plate takes an already expert ski and makes it even more demanding.
My conclusion is that the Head is the more suitable ski, given your description of being a "Mid Level Skier"....and if you want a touch more performance/headroom, go up to the Supershape range (probably Magnum).
I think the Forza 70 will be a brilliant ski, but much more suitable to fast, expert skiers (especially the R22 version).
FWIW. I too think it is very likely that you would find a shop selling both Head and Rossi....and that they would let you offset the rental fee if you buy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| I look for skis that are stable, yet fun and manageable/forgiving. |
And so do I - same criteria. I'd probably add "mostly for short/mid turns", but both v8 and Forza 70 fit into that category.
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
From what I have read, the Rossi Forza 70 is an Expert Level ski, so I agree with @luanb. There seems to be 2 alternatives: The standard version with the Konect system and the version with the R22 Race Plate (which you linked to). The R22 Plate takes an already expert ski and makes it even more demanding. |
Nono, if I linked to R22 plate - my bad then.  Of course I'm talking of Konect version with a non-race plate.
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
....and if you want a touch more performance/headroom, go up to the Supershape range (probably Magnum). |
That is the idea: improve skills on v8 or Forza 70 and buy SS (e-Rally probably) in 3-4 years. I'm just stuck on the first phase of this brilliant plan now. 
By the way, can anyone recommend GripWalk compatible non-race bindings for Forza 70? There are so many of them, and I'm a bit lost. I used Tyrolia PRD12 with my Heads and was totally satisfied. Should I go for e-Rally one day, that will definitely be a Protector binding with a better release system (makes perfect sense for higher speeds/risks), but I'm totally unaware of Rossignol bindings lineup. With my weight of 85kg/190lb that could perfectly be a PRD11 instead (I mean its Rossignol sibling of course).
Looks like (I could be mistaken though!) Rossignol's Look SPX 12 is similar to Tyrolia's PRD12. A couple of questions though:
1. Is SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 the same thing as SPX 12 GW B90 GREY ORGANIC (or BLACK), just different color?
2. What is the difference between B90 and B80/100/110 models (whether FORZA 3.0 or Grey/Black)?
3. What's the difference between the SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 (mentioned in #1) and PIVOT 12 GW B95 FORZA 3.0? Visually SPX and PIVOT have different heels, but also that small difference in their "B"-numbers could probably mean smth.
4. SPX 12 ROCKERACE GW are not my choice, as probably (?) require R22 race plates, right?
Thank you for finding time to have a look and comment.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ToxicInDub wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| I look for skis that are stable, yet fun and manageable/forgiving. |
And so do I - same criteria. I'd probably add "mostly for short/mid turns", but both v8 and Forza 70 fit into that category.
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
From what I have read, the Rossi Forza 70 is an Expert Level ski, so I agree with @luanb. There seems to be 2 alternatives: The standard version with the Konect system and the version with the R22 Race Plate (which you linked to). The R22 Plate takes an already expert ski and makes it even more demanding. |
Nono, if I linked to R22 plate - my bad then. Of course I'm talking of Konect version with a non-race plate.
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
....and if you want a touch more performance/headroom, go up to the Supershape range (probably Magnum). |
That is the idea: improve skills on v8 or Forza 70 and buy SS (e-Rally probably) in 3-4 years. I'm just stuck on the first phase of this brilliant plan now.
By the way, can anyone recommend GripWalk compatible non-race bindings for Forza 70? There are so many of them, and I'm a bit lost. I used Tyrolia PRD12 with my Heads and was totally satisfied. Should I go for e-Rally one day, that will definitely be a Protector binding with a better release system (makes perfect sense for higher speeds/risks), but I'm totally unaware of Rossignol bindings lineup. With my weight of 85kg/190lb that could perfectly be a PRD11 instead (or its Rossignol sibling).
Looks like (I could be mistaken though!) Rossignol's Look SPX 12 is similar to Tyrolia's PRD12. A couple of questions though:
1. Is SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 the same thing as SPX 12 GW B90 GREY ORGANIC (or BLACK), just different color?
2. What is the difference between B90 and B80/100/110 models (whether FORZA 3.0 or Grey/Black)?
3. What's the difference between the SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 (mentioned in #1) and PIVOT 12 GW B95 FORZA 3.0? Visually SPX and PIVOT have different heels, but also that small difference in their "B"-numbers could probably mean smth.
4. SPX 12 ROCKERACE GW are not my choice, as probably (?) require R22 race plates, right?
Thank you for finding time to have a look and comment. |
I like a versatile Turn Radius, so ideally 14m to 16m. If I have a default (for Piste), it would be Short to Medium turns, so could live with 13m. I am lucky that I have 2 sets of skis, one with 12m and one with 18m.....but if I had only one set (like most sane people), I like the versatility of around 15 or 16m.
The Konect system ties you into the Look Bindings that work with it. There is a cheaper and more expensive option. At your weight and if reasonably aggressive, go for the SPX 12 (as the better binding). The Look Bindings are GW compatible.
Spyderjon would be better placed to answer your raft of questions.
I can only speak for the Magnums.....but if you are looking for something that you won't grow out of, but is still forgiving enough for your current level - I think they would fit the bill. I would try and test the Magnum vs V8.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've never rented a pair of Supershape Magnums that I didnt enjoy, but I did rent a pair of the Supershape World Cup rebels one day and I just could not turn them, had to take them back within an hour.
They were probably overtuned but a sorry experience.
I'll be renting my skis next time out from Mountain Story in Tignes le Lac ...
I see that the only Heads they have for me are the "Head eXSR" so they are World Cup Rebels, perhaps they will be better than the last ones I tried as they will probably still have the factory stickers on the base as its the first week of December.
And they will also rent me the Rossignol Forza 70 v-Ti, I'll give them a try but I think they are going to be above my pay grade.
So there you have it @ToxicInDub I'll give you a report on the Forza if I make it back in one piece.
As I'm getting on in years now I should be looking for a ski that is a bit softer and and a comfy ride rather than being lairy.
I was quite enjoying riding around on Atomic X7's widebody for the end of season skiing .. with nothing to prove but still lots to improve.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ToxicInDub wrote: |
1. Is SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 the same thing as SPX 12 GW B90 GREY ORGANIC (or BLACK), just different color?
2. What is the difference between B90 and B80/100/110 models (whether FORZA 3.0 or Grey/Black)?
3. What's the difference between the SPX 12 GW B90 FORZA 3.0 (mentioned in #1) and PIVOT 12 GW B95 FORZA 3.0? Visually SPX and PIVOT have different heels, but also that small difference in their "B"-numbers could probably mean smth.
4. SPX 12 ROCKERACE GW are not my choice, as probably (?) require R22 race plates, right?
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1. Don't know what the difference is.
2. The "B" numbers refer to the Brake Width.
3. All the bindings you link to are not Konnect System bindings, but the sort you attach directly to the ski. The Konnect System bindings are not shown seperately on the Rossignol site as they would normally come with the skis.
4. Yes the ROCKERACE bindings are Race Bindings that you fit to the R22 plate.
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@ToxicInDub, the answers above given by @MyKeg are correct but I'll add the following:
1. Yep, just different colours.
3. The SPX 12 and the Pivot 12 share the same toe bindings but have different heels. The SPX is available on the Konect rail whereas the Pivot is only available as a flat mounted binding.
4. Yep, the Rockerace, and their predecessor the Rockerflex, only mount to the R22 plate.
The difference between the same ski with the Konect rail compared to the R22 plate is quite different, with the R22 plate stiffening up the ski quite a bit and, more importantly (as the Rockerace bindings are screwed in to the R22 plate versus the Konect system which develops play between the rail and the bindings), is more positive. IMO to get the best out of the Forza ski you need the R22/Rockerace binding set-up.
I'd also recommend the Dynastar Omeglass Speed Master SL skis with the R22 plate etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@MyKeg @spyderjon Thank you guys for commenting on bindings!
So should I go for KONECT platform I have either to accept the SPX 14 K GW B80 which it comes with, or hope that the seller will agree to change them to SPX 12 (which should be enough for my 85kg/190lb), right?
As for R22 platform:
1) no play between the rail and the binding (vs. KONECT) = more control, but also less forgiveness, hence - less playfulness, right?
2) am I right the width of bindings will be the same (80) or makes sense to choose the different one?
3) the choice of bindings boils down to only SPX 12 ROCKERACE? (SPX 12 and PIVOT are not for R22 plate as far as I understood)
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 16-10-23 8:26; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thank you!
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Yeah, but it's Nurnberg which is 260km from Garmisch-Partenkirschen that I was talking about (and Zugspitze peak in also there).
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You know it makes sense.
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@ToxicInDub, if you live near Garmisch Partenkirchen the you might want to check out these guys
https://ski-performance.com/skiverleih/
They have a good selection of Head skis and are conveniently situated right at the Kreuzeck station
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I see they even have worldcup rebels which my wife spent weeks looking for last winter and eventually imported from a shop in Milan. Looks like they are well sorted!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Steilhang wrote: |
@ToxicInDub, if you live near Garmisch Partenkirchen the you might want to check out these guys
https://ski-performance.com/skiverleih/
They have a good selection of Head skis and are conveniently situated right at the Kreuzeck station |
I'm not near, but not far either and GP is one of my favourite resorts, so thank you for this contact!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ToxicInDub Which option did you go for in the end if any, I'm in a similar mind
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@B36LBX I haven't bought yet, but definitely will in this season. After so many reading and YouTubing both models and also holding them in my hands in the store I will go for Forza. I've always loved and adored Head (and I still do - their quality and thoughtfullness are amazing), but I see that Forza is a same level competitor, at least when those 2 models are considered, so I shouldn't regret giving Forza a try.
The difference in their weight is not significant, so I crossed this point out from my arguments. Forza has a longer edge, so should be more clingy on the slope, especially closer to midday, when it's not so groomed and partially is icy. Besides, Forza has titanal layer, which makes the construction more stable on higher speeds (and titanal's weight partially plays role in this too, however not the major one). The small downside of that is that Forza is a bit more demanding than V8.
TLDR; If you want more chill and will rarely ski at *very* high speeds or complicated surfaces go for V8. Otherwise buy Forza.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ToxicInDub wrote: |
@B36LBX I haven't bought yet, but definitely will in this season. After so many reading and YouTubing both models and also holding them in my hands in the store I will go for Forza. I've always loved and adored Head (and I still do - their quality and thoughtfullness are amazing), but I see that Forza is a same level competitor, at least when those 2 models are considered, so I shouldn't regret giving Forza a try.
The difference in their weight is not significant, so I crossed this point out from my arguments. Forza has a longer edge, so should be more clingy on the slope, especially closer to midday, when it's not so groomed and partially is icy. Besides, Forza has titanal layer, which makes the construction more stable on higher speeds (and titanal's weight partially plays role in this too, however not the major one). The small downside of that is that Forza is a bit more demanding than V8.
TLDR; If you want more chill and will rarely ski at *very* high speeds or complicated surfaces go for V8. Otherwise buy Forza. |
Thanks for this - personally I'm leaning more towards the Forza 60 as it seems a bit more forgiving than the 70 - in your search did you find anything worth sharing in terms of 60 vs 70?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well, I didn't consider 60, because I'd rather buy V8 then, but this is only *my* scenario, because I had Head Prestige before and I liked Head after them. If you have no "history" with Head like me, you can go for 60.
Google the details/reviews though, because there *should* be the difference between 60 and V8 - just I don't know what it is.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ToxicInDub, I recently tested the Forza 60 and the Head WC Rebels e-SL at the SIGB ski test, the Head, for me, was head (!) and shoulders above the Forza, smooth, forgiving, faster edge to edge and better edge grip
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@KenX Thanks for sharing - appreciate it! However the balance between Rebels/60 could differ from that between Shapes/70. Not arguing, just thinking out loud.
In fact, Rebels are racing skis, so no wonder they outperform Forza 60, which are obviously a fun model. Shapes are performance skis, and so is Forza 70. Dollars to donuts they will be much closer to each other.
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FAQ
Those I've listed are 
