 Poster: A snowHead
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This is quite an intriguing jacket, anyone tried it out?
Natural waterproofing whilst being very breathable sounds great, would love to know if anyone (not associated with the company) has tried it out? Some bold claims on the website (and I know the history of the company and have used them many times myself)
Most Sustainable ski/Snowboard Jacket EVER
Most Breathable ski/Snowboard Jacket EVER
Most Waterproof Jacket EVER 100,000mm
https://www.snowshepherd.co.uk/store/SNOWSHEPHERD-LOTUS-JACKETS-c154429762
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 10-10-23 10:29; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is it insulated?
But it doesn’t seem to have got a lift pass pocket on the forearm. Disaster . 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@kitenski, Nice looking jacket, also available in black and pink.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| kitenski wrote: |
This is quite an intriguing jacket, anyone tried it out?
Natural waterproofing whilst being very breathable sounds great, would love to know if anyone (not associated with the company) has tried it out? Some bold claims on the website (and I know the history of the company and have used them many times myself)
Most Sustainable ski/Snowboard Jacket EVER
Most Breathable ski/Snowboard Jacket EVER
Most Waterproof Jacket EVER 100,000mm
https://www.snowshepherd.co.uk/store/SNOWSHEPHERD-LOTUS-JACKETS-c154429762 |
weirdly little info on what this miracle fabric actually is?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Doesn't look like a helmet compatible hood. I had a purple Nevica jacket in a somewhat similar design back in the 90's . It's got a hint of Paramo Velez about it.
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I found the same when looking for the fabric but the vendors seem to suggest it is a silk like fabric for fashion items like scarves. Anyone know how it works for outdoor applications unless it means saturating it woth TX10 etc like Paramo?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sizing looks odd - small to fit 39-41 inch chest?! Obviously targeted at (ski) gods with unearthly physiques, or perhaps sized for the future population of the Western world.
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I've never seen any clothings waterproofness rated that high. Would be interested to know what lab even has a 10m tube for testing! Obviously complete overkill, even a good expedition tent doesn't need to be that waterproof.
Not sure when people will finally clock on nothing that is extremely waterproof is going to be that breathable. As much as companies want to spend on material design and marketing, big pit zips are the low tech, widely available, and cheap solution.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@albob, yeah would go down to my knees
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£400 plus. Can't help feeling I would be better off with norrona lofoten shell.
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You know it makes sense.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ...nothing that is extremely waterproof is going to be that breathable. As much as companies want to spend on material design and marketing, big pit zips are the low tech, widely available, and cheap solution. |
I think we've figured that out. At least those of us who used to use bin bags to keep the rain off. This one has side openings like the Buffalo shirt thingy, which presumably is how they deal with that. But my bin-bags have presumably a fairly large "waterproofness", depending on precisely how one does the measurement.
But more choice is always good. The market they're aiming at is clear enough.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
I've never seen any clothings waterproofness rated that high. Would be interested to know what lab even has a 10m tube for testing! Obviously complete overkill, even a good expedition tent doesn't need to be that waterproof.
Not sure when people will finally clock on nothing that is extremely waterproof is going to be that breathable. As much as companies want to spend on material design and marketing, big pit zips are the low tech, widely available, and cheap solution. |
That was my thinking and why I looked for more info on the fabric. It sounds like magic so I would want to see a bit more evidence and there is none. I find it weird give snow shepherd have a good reputation.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| £400 plus. Can't help feeling I would be better off with norrona lofoten shell. |
Isn't that like saying 45k for a VW ID3, I'd be better off with a Taycan? How much does a lofoten cost now? 700? more?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The bright yellow norrona lofoten shell same design as the lotus jacket us £400 on norrona outlet website. All sizes and free del
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| The bright yellow norrona lofoten shell same design as the lotus jacket us £400 on norrona outlet website. All sizes and free del |
good buy then! If you can live with bright yellow I guess
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Maybe ask @snowshepherd - they're on here aren't they?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| eps wrote: |
| Maybe ask @snowshepherd - they're on here aren't they? |
you'd think they might have responded, wouldn't you?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tim/livetoski hasn't posted much recently, and did say earlier in the year his son had taken over a lot of the business - and the son might not be on here much?
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=163560
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I thought it would be worth while to update about Snowshepherd, I have decided to take a very much back seat in the operation, and let my son Brandon run the business, a bit of youth and a new approach is needed. As old friends will know I started Snowshepherd back in 2009, as an off piste opertion, but over time it devolped into us being a Glove manufactuer!
.... |
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| jedster wrote: |
| eps wrote: |
| Maybe ask @snowshepherd - they're on here aren't they? |
you'd think they might have responded, wouldn't you? |
Probably busy making/selling stuff
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I found SnowShepherd! At the ski show, with jackets to look at 
Edit: had a chat about the jackets - they are very nice in person.
Tim said he'll pop back on the forum at some point to answer questions
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mishmash, Norrona
May have got it from Bergans or Paramo.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Hi all, sorry for slow update, as you can imagine have been a bit busy recently ! And I don't post often nowadays here.
So, yes we launched the new snowshepherd
Lotus jacket today at the NEC show.
I met @fixx who told me about this thread
So yep 3 different colours of jackets pink, black and snowshepherd yellow to match our gloves.
The fabric is lotus flowers steams woven into a fabric, the waterproof level is 100.000mm yep the highest ever. And they are fully breathable no chemicals plastics or anything other than the zips.
This is not magic just almost 2 years of research and rnd by my son brandon, and testing last year, plus he went to the factory recently to to see the production.
Many of you know me personally on this forum, so I can assure you, we always try and do something different, I can assure you that this jacket breaks new ground.
And hopefully other brands will take notice and stop greenwashing their plastic jackets.
Sustainability is not a choice its a responsibility for the generations to come.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@livetoski, well done, looks a great product
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Interested material, not in the market for one, but will have a look if its at the London show as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ster, Thanks yes we are at London next weekend 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| livetoski wrote: |
| @ster, Thanks yes we are at London next weekend |
Cool, will see you there!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@livetoski, considering 30,000mm is considered highly waterproof (and good enough for expedition tents and fly sheets), is 100k really any different in practice? I suspect many companies have waterproof ratings well above 30k, but don't bother testing any more as simply reporting 30k is pretty much "gold standard".
The most breathable jacket ever is quite a claim, especially for something far more waterproof than traditional breathable materials. What was the breathability rating?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@boarder2020, hi, I really do beg to differ !
Tents are a totally different ball game for the waterproof rating as its a flat surface.
There are lots of brands that offer over 30k ratings, and yes it makes a huge difference the higher you go.
I have a Ortovox jacket that is 50k it gets wet after about an hour of rain, I have a RAB downpour 25k that gets wet through during a short drizzle lol.
Put it like this, the 100% natural, lotus stem fabric you can submerge it in water for 2 months take it out give it a small shake and its dry !
Its breathability is really high its a totally natural product with not one chemical in it or added to it.
The ratings are due to its natural properties, suggest you Google and read up on the life cycle of Lotus Flowers, during the night time the flowers and stems submerge into the mud of the lake, they reamerge the next morning dry and with no mud on them, no its not magic its nature at its finest
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@livetoski, well done, sounds like it could be a real game changer and raised the bar with a natural product also, hope you've patented it before the big brands get a whiff of those lotus flowers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@livetoski, you seem to be dodging the question about breathability. I assumed you would have had it tested to make the claim it's the most breathable jacket? You are really suggesting this is more breathable than a lightweight less waterproof jacket?
What lab was the waterproofing rating tested in? Would be good to know where has a 10m tube.
It's all well and good talking about lotus plants, but I'm not sure that directly translates to the processed jacket you end up with.
It's definitely good you are using sustainable options. (Although I'm not sure many consumers really care). I'm sure it's a good jacket. I'm just a little skeptical about some of your claims which seem a little too extraordinary.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| livetoski wrote: |
Hi all, sorry for slow update, as you can imagine have been a bit busy recently ! And I don't post often nowadays here.
So, yes we launched the new snowshepherd
Lotus jacket today at the NEC show.
I met @fixx who told me about this thread
So yep 3 different colours of jackets pink, black and snowshepherd yellow to match our gloves.
The fabric is lotus flowers steams woven into a fabric, the waterproof level is 100.000mm yep the highest ever. And they are fully breathable no chemicals plastics or anything other than the zips.
This is not magic just almost 2 years of research and rnd by my son brandon, and testing last year, plus he went to the factory recently to to see the production.
Many of you know me personally on this forum, so I can assure you, we always try and do something different, I can assure you that this jacket breaks new ground.
And hopefully other brands will take notice and stop greenwashing their plastic jackets.
Sustainability is not a choice its a responsibility for the generations to come. |
It's actually woven from stems or some fibre is extracted from the stems, spun into thread and woven?
2 years seems like an incredible SHORT r&d time for an entirely novel performance fabric or did the fabric exist for other applications and you've repurposed it for this application.
Your pricing also sound very low if the fabric is being made in small quantities. I mean ventile cotton makes things much more expensive and must have much better scale economies.
Excuse me if I sound unfairly sceptical but when someone says they have come up with a new material superior in every important specification with a couple of years it just sounds too good to be true. I'm sure you can understand that reaction. I'd have though you would want a much fuller discussion of how it works on your website to address that?
The other thing is that if it is as good as you say why not sell it to e.g., Patagonia it would fit their brand ambitions and they'd be able to monetise the tech much more effectively I'd have thought?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@jedster, good shout regards Patagucci, right up their Strasse you'd think, also Norrona both great sustainable brands.
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https://samatoa.lotus-flower-fabric.com/eco-textile-mill/lotus-fabric/
google found me this - someone selling handwoven textiles form lotus stems. The stems are spun into thread and then woven. The site says that the fabric is very breathable and doesn't wrinkle but makes no claims on waterproofness. Must be some additional process that provides the waterproofing I guess?
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@jedster,
Thanks really good response, the material is woven in Cambodia, from stem extract its an ancient process, reinvented a few years ago.
The fabric was developed by them, its just that they don't publicise it on their website.
Our factory have made a jacket before of this fabric but not for the ski industry, actually for a more water based sport lol
Your very right about the price I wanted to go much higher!
When you consider it takes 40,000 stems to make 1 Square meter of fabric and all this is done by hand with zero emissions
I hope other brands look at it but their margin requirements are huge, so they may well have looked at it already and decided that charging well over £1000 a jacket would not work.
I will try and get some sort of video out to you guys to show the waterproof nature, maybe an old git like me stood in a cold shower for an hour might do it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@livetoski, send me a demo jacket to Leeds and I'll wear it in the forecast rain storms up a Yorkshire hill then post it back to you!
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@kitenski,
Will see what I can do
Nice to see your still active on Snowheads
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