Driving to Tignes routes and snow socks vs open/tread chains

A snowHead

Hi All,

So doing a test run down to Marseilles to watch the rugby, if all goes well I am planning on driving to Tignes last week of January coming back first weekend in February.

Three questions-

1. Is there an easy way to take the scenic route via bourg en bresse. Now that I am starting to drive to Europe my Mum has been reminiscing about the long journeys she did with my Dad and mentioned that when ever they went to the South of France or Northern Italy in the summer they would always drive the route via Bourg en Bresse, and then over the mountain passes, she said it always beat the Auto Routes nicer hotels, better food, better scenery etc. Also, how much time roughly would it add on?

2. I have a Saab 9-5 with Aero Wheels which you can't fit normal chains onto, now being Swedish they expect any sane person to put on their winter tires but living in the South of England if it snows I just don't drive. For the final bit of the drive are modern socks a viable alternative even if I crawl up the mountain with them on, the only other option is an open/tread chain like the Konig which is significantly more expensive for what could be a one time use (hence the reason for not getting a set of winter tires, if this becomes my chosen method for getting to the mountains I'll get proper chains/ winter tires).

3. Any advice for driving on proper snow not the slush we get in the UK.

Thanks in advance

A snowHead

@dorhar, . "Any advice for driving on proper snow not the slush we get in the UK."

Generally feared is the getting stuck element, not being able to get up a gradient, when we should be equally to more concerned about going down and stopping. It's real heart in the sphincter Very Happy

stuff when you can't stop the vehicle and start looking for the least damaging place to crash Shocked

Pure (non all season tyres) id treat with significant caution, especially no ESPECIALLY going down gradient in snow.

Socks do a decent job in low grip situations, but are effectively contingency for getting out of immediate short distance problems. Significant mileage on very low grip surfaces you'll welcome the definite advantage a good all season tyre will give you, and offers likely the most sensible choice for all year round driving with some snow trips.

Chains are similarly limited, by speed and, sensible distance to socks. They offer solution in the more extreme slippery conditions, but aren't realistic for longer travel in that respect.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Ha! Stand by for a blizzard of conflicting advice, @dorhar. You'll be in Tignes, which is up a long way, for many weeks and you'd be unlucky not to get some show-stopping snow in that time. Perhaps more likely to run into problems there than en route.

Any chance you could get a set of good all-season tyres? It won't cost you extra, except the actual cost of changing. Or even a set of basic wheels? I'm not a car person so don't know what Aero Wheels are. If not, practice with socks before you go and put them on at the first hint of loss of traction

No mystique about driving on snow - same as slush, really. Stay off the brake as much as possible, stay in as high a gear as possible, be especially careful changing down and on downhill bends, leave plenty of space in front of you. Commonsense. Be prepared to have to buy a new set of socks if you have to use them in anger. They are effective, but don't last long. Carry a shovel. NEVER overtake a snow plough. Have emergency rations in the car. Enjoy yourself.

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Its genuinely a good part of a ski holiday though, driving there, in your own schedule and comfort.

Well worth the preparation and planning in my view.

Route wise, depending on where your destination is, there's some nice non autoroute bits to mix in with some of the longer distance on main roads to make the trip more interesting.

To Tignes, we regularly go via autoroute to Dijon, turn east toward Geneva, get off auto and travel through Annecy, down along the lake is beguiling and beautiful, to Albertville and then onward to Tarantaise valley to give a interesting approach to the mountains. We ordinarily avoid peak traffic times on this route to get a relaxed run through there.

Coming back, through Champery and up the lakeside then west toward Belley a nice alterative to then join autoroute near Dijon is a forum favourite.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Tignes in January without proper precautions is a high risk strategy. All climates and snow socks would reduce that risk but you’d still need to keep an eye on the weather and pick your timings for ascent and descending.

Ref drive, the Belley, tunnel du chat is a nice drive and saves on tolls, a good escape from the autoroute.

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@dorhar, can't really say on #1 as we haven't been definitely been discussed on here so I am sure someone will answer.

#2 not used socks but discussed plenty and seems to me the logical option in your circs. Personally I would have gone to a lower town than Tignes to mitigate a little. Early March means you could easily stay somewhere like Le Praz or Montchavin where it's likely to have problems with snowy roads. That said if a storm blows in... to which I would definitely keep an eye on the forecast. If it's a really bad day/night you could delay the drive in a day or leave a day early. When I was in Tignes a few years ago I made the mistake of not bailing out on a benign Friday evening and ended up spending Saturday night in the shelter they set up at the sports centre!, Having driven dozens of times though I'd say the odds are you will be fine though with socks as back up.

#3 I always let the missus drive as she has more experience driving in snow and more relaxed about it!!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

i dont know which routes do you describe, not know so much from France either
But driving in Winter over mountain passes without winter tires i find it a little bit (or more) risky.
I lived in Greece till 2012, and i used to had winter tires for the 3-4 times pro year i had to drive to the Alps and for visiting the small ski resorts in Greece. And i think in Greece is more warm as in S.England

Dont forget that driving through mountain passes mean that you maybe has to stop to put the chains or socks and again stop to put them out.
Sometimes maybe the road has snow, meaning you need the chains, then many km without snow because of the road is too "sunny" then again a part with snow ....

If you keep the chains you have to drive with 50 pro h, if you have socks you have to take them out otherwise they will be destroyed....

but generally speaking you will stay almost 40days in Tignes meaning at 2.000 m.
I dont think it is wise without winter or at least all weather tires

After all it is free

I think the OP is thinking of doing any mountain passes now, driving to the rugby, so should be no problem!

@dorhar, are you not planning on driving while you're there, seeing as you're planning on being there for a month?

Trips to bourg st maurice for a proper food shop etc?

I'd say get some winter tyres. It's likely you'll need/want them while you're there.

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Should have read February, I am there for a week not a month! Sorry for the confusion, if I was there that long I would get the set of 15/16 inch rims I know my mechanic still has lying around fitted with winter tires. As most of the drive is motorway the 17 inch rims are much better.

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@dorhar, the D1504 is a very scenic route that will take you from Bourg en Bresse to Chambéry and hence onto to Albertville and Tignes. The eastern side of Lake Annecy is also an attractive drive, sadly in winter you cannot take the beautiful Cormet de Roselend shortcut to Bourg st Maurice.

Legally to drive in the mountainous areas of France in winter you will be required to have either approved tyres with the three-peak mountain snowflake (3PMSF) symbol on them or snow chains. I'm not sure where socks fit into this.

As to driving on snow my advice is simply to allow plenty of distance and time for things to happen and anticipate everything. I actually find driving on slush much harder and scarier than snow; the loss of grip is much more sudden as you aquaplane.

You know it makes sense.

I was there last Christmas, in an apartment overlooking the main road/hill up towards the office de tourism in Le Lac. On our last afternoon/evening it snowed, not a lot, but enough that people with no chains/socks couldn't make it up, presumably on summers? And even some with socks weren't getting on too well. I on the other hand with winter tyres on, had no issues getting around.

Take your chances I suppose.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

for one week i think you could manage it with chains or socks

my opinion : better chains
used them both , and with chains you dont bother if there is a sunny part of the road with no snow e.g. 400m
the socks as fas as they are out of the snow part of the road, are "in dangerous"

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@dorhar, One summer when my wife and I were pootling around europe on our motorbikes we came up from Briançon (we's been climbing in Barre de Ecrin area) over the pass into Italy and onto the Mont-Cenis pass then over the Col d'Iseran and the Cormet de Roseland to camp at lake Annecy. It was a tiring day of the sort that the cyclist of the TdF seem to happily manage. I have to say it was very scenic.

You could then head straight south from Briançon past ski resorts like Risoul to the Riviera. Or head a bit further west and pick up the Route Napoléon.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Worth checking Facebook etc for any 2nd hand chains that would work on your wheels, you'll save a lot of money that way

After all it is free

I drove up to Tignes in a blizzard last year in a French hire car from Geneva with summer tyres and socks. Took a wrong turn early on and went via Megeve in the snow and got over ok. Snow started again leaving Briançon It hadnt been snowing long but full snow cover (2-3") and ploughs hadn't been out yet. I got to SainteFoy (further than most) before I put socks on and no issue after. 6" by Tignes.

Would I go by choice without winters... NO!

And just for reference, your winter tyres aren't just for snow. They'll will give you more grip in the dry below 7⁰c than standard tyres; enough to stop as much as 2m shorter from 30mph (or the width of a zebra crossing).

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@dorhar, if you do decide to go the winter tyre route I have a set of 17" alloys with winter tyres that came off my dear departed 9-5 Aero estate. Bargain price for a fellow snowhead! The smaller wheels don't fit over the big brakes on the Aero. Great car for long distances!

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We had a spare set of wheels at one point, because we could change them ourselves. They weren't alloys though. Tatty ones which weren't remotely precious! My OH arranged stowage for them on the garage wall. But we were spending every winter in the Alps - it's not worth it for a week!!

@dorhar,
If the police say you need to put chains on then you either put them on or turn around & go back down the mountain.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Anyway thanks for all of the help, it sounds like as long as the drive to Marseilles goes alright in a couple of weekend times driving to Tignes is doable.

Thanks again, this forum has been super helpful over the years even if I don't always take your advice it helps me shape my decision making!

Just need to do a snow dance for the next 3 months.

A snowHead

@dorhar, Back to your original question. Yes you can go via Bourg en Bresse and pick up the A40/ Autoroute Blanche or Autoroute des Titans. It doesn't add too much the overall journey. Check Via Michelin for actual mileages and any tolls. The road winds it's way over the southern Jura range, then into the pre-Alps/Alps.

First time I drove it was on a clear, sunny Winter's afternoon. It's a stunning bit of engineering with umpteen viaducts and a few tunnels. However, I've also driven it twice in awful, stormy, snowy weather and it's very exposed. It heads towards Geneva, but we exited towards Annecy, then by the Lake and on to Albertville. We did overnight once at B en Bresse in early January. The chicken capital of Europe. But it was very quiet with just a few restaurants opening in the evening.

FWIW, I run full "Winters", and carry chains. In bad weather on a transfer day the last few miles of road up to Tignes and Val d' are littered with chewed up snow socks.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've been doing the drive for the past 15 or so years, in a variety of completely unsuitable cars (Rear-wheel-drive v8 BMW, Audi's with 4wd but 300+ bhp) and a couple of times in a suitable car (landcruiser).

My experience is thus:
1. I'm not sure how "scenic" you want. I've sometimes taken the A39 from Dijon past Dole and then past the Big Red Chicken (sculpture at the Aire). You could then take the D991 which skirts the lake at Aix-les-Bains or keep to the motorway past Geneva and then take the Annecy route to Albertville. Both hav a "lakeside" element which is quite scenic. Since I drive through the night it's sometimes nice to take this route and watch the sunrise. Mostly though, I stick to the motorway since I'm driving not sightseeing and it can take an hour longer (due to lower speeds).

2. I used "SpikesSpiders" on the BMW and drove up a snowy road that people were skiing down past me. For the past few years I've had SnowSocks and apart from practicing I've never had them out of the bags. My rule is this: Wait. Find the resort websites which have webcams. At the bottom of the hill, checkout the webcam to see how snowy the road is up in the resort. If they haven't cleared it, then don't go up. Let the coaches/transfers with their wintertyres and JCBs with their ploughs clear the road first. For the sake of a couple of hours waiting it is better to be safe than very very sorry.

3. Be Slow. Accelerate gently, Brake gently. if in a manual, second gear with low revs. if in an automatic, see if you can force it to run in a low gear. Don't worry about the people in your rear-view mirror. If they're locals on winter tyres they'll overtake you anyway.

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I know those Saab Aero wheels all too well. Chucked 'em as soon as I could on my old 9-3. Brutal with low-profile tires...

But i digress a bit. a set of steel wheels that will allow you to fit higher-sidewall snow tires are not very expensive and well worth the gains, I think. Generally go -1 or -2, i.e. if you have 19/XX now, go 18/-10 mm. That will give you sidewalls that are 0.5 inch taller, I believe (or even 17/-20 mm). You'll also gain some space in the wheel well to fit chains in extreme conditions (chains + snow tires + Saab is nearly unstoppable). If this is a drive you expect to make a number of times in the future I think it's worth investing in dedicated winter tires.

I have used fabric and webbed snow socks in the past (and still keep a set in the car) but you can't go very fast and they have a tendency to disintegrate or even fly off. That said, 90% of the time that's all you need.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I know the road very well (ex transfer driver). For what you need and when, it will be busy enough that the road will be in good enough condition for you regardless of socks or cable chains. Personaly as my own vehicle is 2wd I have winters and full chains, but I live here and commute in all weather as a ski patroler. As a backup I have the wifes jimny with M+S and chains for all 4 wheels, if that won't work I think I need a Pisten Bully!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Deleted

After all it is free

Definitely recommend the Bourg-en Bresse and Annecy route to Albertville.

In France you will need a set of tyres (if you can't fit chains) that have the 3 Peaks symbol. M+S are no longer "legal" in France for winter tyres (not sure anyone would stop you if you only had these though). However, if it snows then the Police WILL stop you going up the mountain if you only have summer tyres.

If you are going to go regularly either:

1) Fit all Season Tyres (as others have said) or
2) Buy a set of wheels/rims//tyres off ebay that are winter legal

I did 2) and got a set of wheels and tyres off eBay for £340.

I also carry chains but that's because I like a backup to my backup!

FWIW I drove to Tignes last Christmas. It rained (more like a biblical downpour) all the way up to Tignes 1800. We didn't need the Winter Tyres on the road. However, we DID need them to unload at the apartment as whilst the roads are clear, the last 50m into the parking was an ice-rink. So be aware that you are more likely to get stuck in the resort on a side road or private road than on the way there!

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The first time I went skiing in France I had to abandon my rental car (no winter tyres or chains) on the side of a snowy road. Luckily only a few hundred yards from the resort car park I was aiming for, but it really stressed me out and ruined my day. Fortunately, the afternoon sun thawed out the road and I was able to retrieve it.

Now I have dedicated our second car to be the 'ski car' (or SKia!) and have Michelin CC2 tyres, Polaire snow chains and a set of socks, just in case. A full set of tyres are only about £100-150 more than equivalent quality summer tyres and well worth it in my opinion as are also very good in the wet. Snow chains were a little over £300 i think and I have only used them once, in blizzard conditions near Flaine, but the ease of driving in such conditions with them on was outstanding. My car isn't a wannabe off-roader or 4WD but I expect it'd take a heck of a snow-storm to prevent me from getting where I was going.

Help!!

Driving to Tignes routes and snow socks vs open/tread chains

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