 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Ok so started to learn last year but as I'm a late learner, 66 the body isn't as strong as it used to be and not does it recover from the falls as quick, I seem to have difficulty with skis suited to me height, 6ft and 15st they give me 160s and keep falling down hard! I've tried some second hand 120s and did much better with them but there seems to be some stigma about short skis as they were used many years ago can any one explain this and why I can't seem to find any newer second hand short adult skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I am 6ft (183cm) and recommendation for new skiers (I only started too in 2022) is circa 10cm below your height. I now ski with 170cm skis but learnt the basics on 166cm skis. Yours sound extremely short and I think this can effect performance when at speed. However as above, I am certainly no expert and many folks on this forum (if not all) will know more than I do. Cheers hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
160 is pretty short for someone your size. 120 is basically a snowblade so will ultimately have limitations. However better you enjoy sliding on snow than not and thus I wouldn't worry too much about proper skis. Decathlon used to flog Wedze skis with proper bindings around that length and I think Atomic tried something.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I am 76 and have a fair bit of experience of both snow blades and skis. You are far taller, and far heavier, than I am and my skis are 160. I would now DEFINITELY not use snow blades though I've enjoyed them at times in the past. They are unstable, unforgiving of any "back seat" tendencies (which nearly all beginners have) and really only perform well when kept on edge (i.e. carving). I would have thought 160cms is as short as it makes sense for you to go, really, though I'm no expert about different sorts of skis.
You've not said how you've embarked on learning, and what sort of instruction you've had. It might be that what you need is better instruction, rather than shorter skis.
To be honest (and there's not much point not being honest here) you are a bit overweight and that will mean your knees will be working extra hard and yes, you will fall very heavily.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I guess you're struggling in soft conditions? To which the answer is you will, practice will make it easier, but its always goong to be more difficult.
It's not all about the lengths, the profile and shape of the ski will make a big difference. Long-term, your best bet is to look for a 'masters' ski. Designed to be nimble they will suit you best long-term. The down-side is stability at speed, and as a beginner you'll find a tendency for them to turn when you don't want them to.
If you really do want shorter skis, ask for slalom skis. But be warned , they may turn quickly, but you'll struggle for hold on hard pack slopes. Speaking from experience, when I got persuaded to try a pair that were way to short for me.
At 6' and 15 stone you are well within the normal curve, and at 66 you will not be the oldest on the slope. The difference is that you are a beginner in this category. You may find Austria (or Germany) will better understand your needs, you'll be nearer the norm they cater for.
You can do more to help yourself out. Go to a hire shop with a big range, somewhere you can try different skis out. Go off peak, when they have more time to look after you. Be very honest about your ability and what you want. Be prepared to switch shop if you don't get the support and time you need. A mid sized family owned shop is likely to give you the best combination of service and range, including those with a small franchise in a chain
At 6'5 and considerably heavier than you, I can assure you, with the help of a good shop you'll find what works best for you. When I broke my last pair, I had to hire for a few days, and the difference between a good hire shop, and an average one was very apparent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I can't see a reason why 120's would be a problem if they are giving you confidence and getting to from a-b.
If you only started last year, I assume that stability at speed and edge-hold during carved turns are lower down your list of priorities than getting safely to lunch..... As such, any beginner-type ski which has a soft-ish flex and a middle of the road radius (which they pretty much all do have...) should suit fine. Time, tuition and practice will ultimately bring your technique along and then you might find your ski choice becomes more important. But safely progressing and enjoying your skiing should be your goal at the moment.
I've seen all sorts of inappropriate skis being hired out as bravado and an inflated sense of ability influences ski choice..... Sir would really be better off with Rossignol Comfort Explorer as he's not exactly Herman Maier.... but I see Sirs eye is drawn to the Atomic Codpiece GTI.... 215cm? Very good sir. Very best of luck in your forthcoming Downhill and please don't put your back out carrying them home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Aqua66 wrote: |
| there seems to be some stigma about short skis |
there is, I think they make skiing too easy  which partly means you used to get a lot of idiots on short skis and blades wizzing around the slopes.
this was at at time when the average british male judged his virility on just how long his skis were 210cm was considered normal.
Make sure they are adapted to your weight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Klamm Franzer wrote: |
| I can't see a reason why 120's would be a problem if they are giving you confidence and getting to from a-b. |
Because they allow you to go very fast with very limited control. In the hands of a relative novice they're potentially lethal, in addition to which they're very poor tools for learning how to ski properly. However much some people may look down on the snowplough it's an essential technique for control of both speed and direction and one which is all but impossible to master (i.e. to make it effective) on short skis. Best analogy would be trying to learn to ride a bike by starting with a BMX with fixed gear and no brakes.
The old ski-evolutif of the late 1980s tried the idea of learning on short skis and, importantly, progressing gradually to longer ones to gain the required control. It wasn't really a success, largely because it tried to bypass some of the techniques and movements which are fundamental to later skiing development.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
At your weight - even 160 is a little on the short side, so I would join those who advise not going shorter.
Being slightly flippant - you need better instruction rather than shorter skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
6ft and 15st they give me 160s and keep falling down hard!
|
How are you falling? Are you toppling backwards whilst trying to turn? 120s will be much easier to force around by rotating you body and shoulders, but will limit where you can ski. Maybe more lessons, possibly here in the UK (if you are in the UK) before you go. 160 skis (IMV) on the short side for you...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
If you are falling backwards you definitely would NOT get on with blades, which have only a couple of inches behind your boots. They can be useful teaching aids - a group I was in, years ago, with Dave Peek, a very experienced instructor, spent a morning on them, carving tight turns through posts. It was huge fun but if we let our weight go back, we fell over..... We were not great skiers (though not beginners either) and he warned us to be careful when we got back on our normal skis for free skiing in the afternoon. That was early season in Tignes, many years ago. If I'd done a week with him every year since then I'd be a terrific skier!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Well at least there's some tough love here. Short skis (which for me includes lengths up to 150) can be good fun for a change if you fundamentally are in the right position and balance but I guess we'd all say most snowbladers we see (of which there are thankfully rather few in general) are gibboning around like monkeys rather than in any way skiing "properly". If you can't ski a 160 ski at the Op's size (assuming it's not something nutso stiff like a Women's full FIS raceroom SL ski with plate) I'd say you can't really ski. At the same time I wouldn't want to crap on anyone's dreams so gibboning around on short skis might be just fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
6ft and 15st, leaving aside your inability to do proper measurements, you shouldn't be on 160s ... 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
At your size, age and ability, the length of those skis is not really the problem. Yes, they are on the short side for you, but that's ok right now. You need good instruction and reps.
The stigma about short skis from years ago? Yeah, we used to say "short skis, short unit" back in the 70's when we were all on 207s and up. Forget about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
You only started to learn last year - give us a bit more background. How many days skiing, what lessons have you had? Do you have access to indoor slopes? I would say persevere with 160s, or a bit longer, but have lessons with a decent instructor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| 6ft and 15st, leaving aside your inability to do proper measurements, you shouldn't be on 160s ... |
I'll ignore that one as i dont understand the comment
How are you falling? Are you toppling backwards whilst trying to turn? 120s will be much easier to force around by rotating you body and shoulders, but will limit where you can ski. Maybe more lessons, possibly here in the UK (if you are in the UK) before you go. 160 skis (IMV) on the short side for you...
Not toppling backwards loosing balance when turning,
I guess you're struggling in soft conditions? To which the answer is you will, practice will make it easier, but its always going to be more difficult.
Yup
Well at least there's some tough love here.
Happy to take all the love i can get 
give us a bit more background. How many days skiing, what lessons have you had? Do you have access to indoor slopes?
Happy to bare all!
Do have a bit of problem with balance sometimes, due to major stroke back in '09
First of all, 6x1hr on dry slope-horrendous experience
6 day holiday in Meribel,couple of hours a day (by my self) on the learning slope much to the amusement of my wife and seasonare daughter
A few more sessions on the dry slope, still horrendous
5 days in Val d Isere with morning group instruction, and a bit from daughter in the pm
Now taking lessons at an indoor ski centre, Hemmel H (one n half hours drive away) and find the instructors great but not had the same one twice!
Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated and welcomed 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Aqua66, kilograms and metres!! (And the metres don't matter, skis don't know how tall you are).
I don't imagine it's the ski length at root. Just you're a beginner. So lessons much more important. Balance issues easily could be contributing. Dry slopes always tricky. Might also be that you need a better "quality" of instructor ... I'm thinking that the 120s just allowed you to push on thru, and weren't actually being "skied"?
Also, as I rapidly approach 60, I would suggest 66 aint that old!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Aqua66 wrote: |
| Do have a bit of problem with balance sometimes, due to major stroke back in '09 |
Maybe ask for an instructor with experience of doing adaptive teaching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Aqua66 wrote: |
Not toppling backwards loosing balance when turning,
|
At a guess with no knowledge of your skiing, sounds to me like you're not getting enough weight on the outside ski through the turn.
When you say losing balance, is that generally towards the uphill slope?
I'd suggest lessons and practise before short skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| rjs wrote: |
| Aqua66 wrote: |
| Do have a bit of problem with balance sometimes, due to major stroke back in '09 |
Maybe ask for an instructor with experience of doing adaptive teaching. |
I'm not sure that would really help, as most of the adaptive stuff is based on using kit like sit-skis. harnesses, outriggers etc. etc. to allow you to 'ski' in a slightly different 'adapted' way to overcome physical or mental problems. Been a while since I was exposed to it though.
@Aqua66 Having had some experience teaching older beginners I'd venture to suggest that you don't really have a problem as such, you're just finding it tough going and quite naturally looking for ways to help. Persevere with the lessons, ask them specifically if they have an instructor who's got more experience teaching adults. Older instructors, as well as more likely to have said experience, are also much more likely to be able to empathise with you.
Difficult to offer any specific advice from what you say, perhaps you could try to explain it better? It's not at all clear what you mean by "losing balance while turning", for example. What exactly is happening with the skis? What sort of turns are you doing at this stage? Still completely snowplough, or are you trying to get the skis parallel towards the end of the turn yet?
The only very tentative conclusion I might draw from what you say about the shorter skis is that you're trying to push the skis round too quickly rather than just letting them do their own thing on their curved edges. The shorter ski offers less resistance to sideways movement across the snow surface, so is easier to get them pointing the other way, but this is really not a good thing. If you're trying to do that with the longer skis then it's likely that it's not your balance that's the problem, but that the skis are resisting your attempts to force them round and effectively tripping you over. Many people do this, we call it 'rushing the turn' where they're trying to avoid any point at which the ski is pointing directly downhill.
I'm sure your instructors will have tried to explain to you how the ski works, but I've found that sticking rigidly to the 'official' (e.g. BASI) terminology and explanations is not _always_ the best way for _everyone_ to understand things. They will talk about rotating the skis, for example, which is a massive over-simplification of what's actually happening and can cause confusion to some people, particularly anyone with an analytical approach to learning (like me). What you're trying to do is help the ski to use its own shape to turn; what you're not wanting to do is twist it on the snow, so the gentle 'rotation' that you put in needs a lot of forward movement at the same time.
Not sure this will help, but if any of it strikes a chord or starts to make any sense then please feel free to ask for more. And try to recall as exactly as you can what happens with the skis, with your legs, with your body, just before you fall.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Grown men with child skis in the liftline look ridiculous.
Start planks at 150, move up to 160, settle around the 165-180 level (for a 6-footer).
Lose weight, if health allows, probably 20-60lbs. Do a BMI calc.
Balance, strength, skiability will jump.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aqua66,
You have my utmost respect for learning to ski in your mid 60s. Falling over a lot is completely normal in your first few weeks. Impact shorts may be of some help to you.
160 cm skis might be OK, if the ski is of the appropriate stiffness/flexibility for your weight and ability level, and I am not suggesting you are overweight. If you are hiring skis, you can try different lengths to see if something else works better for you. Hire shop staff should be well aware of which skis to give an early intermediate according to their weight.
Learning to ski is not easy for most people, but I can assure you it does get easier. There are different techniques to learn for different types of terrain and snow conditions. It can take a long time to acquire the toolbox of skills necessary to handle all conditions and soft snow is often the bane of those in their first few weeks of skiing.
I recommend you keep enrolling in ski school while on holiday, unless you don't mind paying for private tuition. Lessons at Hemel will probably help a lot; my wife certainly found them useful. I strongly agree with Chaletbeauroc's suggestion about older instructors, if you can find one. Best of luck.
Regarding the 120 cm skis, to put it bluntly many other skiers will think you're a knob. Older relatives of mine (decent skiers) who tried short skis like that in the past thought they were dangerous. They won't offer enough fore-aft stability, especially for someone your size and ability level, which is a reason some people are suggesting 160 cm skis might be a little on the short side for you. What length skis do they put you on at Hemel? Pop into the Snow + Rock shop there and see what length they would suggest for you.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 29-09-23 3:09; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aqua66, ah. You've revealed the vital info. Your balance is impacted by your stroke so in my book you get a free pass on skiing whatever you can that works for your balance. It's just better to be out doing it than not. That's not to say a sympathetic instructor would not be be able to get you skiing modestly longer skis successfully.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@Aqua66, you have clearly put in a lot of effort trying to learn to ski but not yet got much fun out of it. On the contrary, you've been falling down a lot - and falling on a dry slope is particularly horrendous. It's a great pity you spent all that Meribel holiday trying to do it on your own, without instruction (if you'd come to Snowheads for advice then we'd all have been shouting about the need for instruction, and if you could possibly afford it, private lessons given your balance problems).
Learning at 66 isn't easy - it's all very well for @under a new name to say that 66 isn't old, but he started skiing when he was a wee lad on huge skis up a Scottish mountain.
If your current efforts to learn at an indoor slope don't make much progress, and you keep falling, I guess you need to ask yourself how much you really want to do this? It's no fun falling heavily all the time and quite possible that you might hurt yourself. You've given it a really good go; there'd be no shame in deciding it's not for you. Skiing is not for everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@pam w, wise words*
* as usual
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@Aqua66, in the way of Snowheads you have stimulated lots of verbiage amongst which is some good advice.
My suspicion is that your problem is simply that of being a beginner - plus the fact that falling is more stressful at 60+ than for a child at 6+. You are obviously able to get down a slope - and enjoy that - but it sounds as if turns are hard work, and you find them easier with shorter skis. However the real reason it is hard work is that you haven't yet learned how to make turning easier by letting the skis do the work for you. It is a stage everyone goes through, and by working with instructors you will improve your technique and be able to turn comfortably with 160-170 cm skis.
Although skiing looks easy when other people do it, it needs you to confidently change your balance in ways which feel scary in the sense of thinking there is a risk of falling. A bit like leaning a bicycle into a corner, you need to take a position which seems to defy gravity. My experience is that different instructors explain things differently, and you need to take the ideas that "click" with you and use those, adding more until turning starts to flow. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| pam w wrote: |
you've been falling down a lot - and falling on a dry slope is particularly horrendous.
|
Hemel is not a dry slope. I took some lessons there back in the early '90s when it was, but I think it's been an indoor snowdome slope for getting on twenty years now.
| pam w wrote: |
Learning at 66 isn't easy - it's all very well for @under a new name to say that 66 isn't old, but he started skiing when he was a wee lad on huge skis up a Scottish mountain. |
I agree with him though, and I only started in my thirties. I've also taught beginners of that sort of age, so know that it's possible, but takes a lot of work, a particular mindset and a sympathetic instructor.
| pam w wrote: |
Skiing is not for everyone! |
I strongly disagree.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| j b wrote: |
| My experience is that different instructors explain things differently, and you need to take the ideas that "click" with you and use those, adding more until turning starts to flow. |
Quite so. Particularly for 'logical' learners (like me) who feel the need to understand what they're doing and why before they actually do it. I've sometimes had to try several ways of explaining something before they 'get' it, the problem of that being that it's also easy to confuse them with different explanations, so care must be taken.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
Quite so. Particularly for 'logical' learners (like me) who feel the need to understand what they're doing and why before they actually do it. I've sometimes had to try several ways of explaining something before they 'get' it, the problem of that being that it's also easy to confuse them with different explanations, so care must be taken. |
This rings true for me.
I'm a "Logical Learner". I want to understand how the design of a ski helps with turning.....and thus what are the best movements to make this happen efficiently, while remaining in balance and resisting gravity.
Lady F is the exact opposite. As soon as an instructor starts drawing lines in the snow with his ski pole, describing the different stages of the turn and talks about Centrifugal and Centripetal forces, while going into technical explanations to explain the movements required - her eyes glaze over and she switches off. She just wants to be told - this is what you should be doing and when.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@Old Fartbag,
Yes, why do ski instuctors do that?
Probably because they can.... Just humour them and nod a lot.
I'm at the stage in my ski life, where I'm looking for a comfy ride rather than have something to prove.
I bought my wife a pair of easy skis a few years ago ...
Atomic ETL in 123cm length, they are great to use on the piste.
And I like to borrow them now she has given up the skiing.
I think I'm a quite technically proficient, some might argue at that
I suffered a bad accident in July, when an airbourne snowboarder gave me the "Gwyneth Pultrow" treatment.
So I've lost a lot of confidence & probably some skill.
This season I'm going to rent 150cm skis and something a bit softer...
Perhaps some Atomic X7 may suite the bill.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@DrLawn, Yup - Lady F nodded a lot....but the Instructor picked up that she had "Clocked out".
Very short forgiving Piste skis generally have a full camber and a very tight turn radius....while great for very short turns, can be nervous, twitchy and "squirrely" at higher speeds.
What about a narrow AM ski (82 ish), with front and back rocker (to make life easier across a variety of conditions), with no metal in the construction (so Carbon or Basalt), taken fairly short, with a versatile turn radius (14m or 15m)?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Old Fartbag, Thanks for the advice... but ... but I'm more of a "mod" than a "rocker".
I like a bit of salt in my porridge and on the odd occasions that I've used a rocker ski, I come away underwhelmed.
I may well go with your advice though on 82mm underfoot or similar.
I think the X7 comes with a WB version at 82mm.
But as I'm always up for "advice input", I am listening to your suggestions.
What I could always rely on was Head Magnum which has always worked before or Hero Tii MultiTurn
(but sometimes they are brilliant and got me in the "zone" but sometime I felt that they were in charge rather than me.)
Ski's I dont like or don't get along with are Rossi React 6, Salomon Max Force, Black Crow (something begining with A)
Sorry I'm reminiscing now, it must be that time of year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
@DrLawn, I loved the Magnums, when I hired them one year.
My suggestions, as I'm sure you know, are no more than food for thought.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Walter-Spitty wrote: |
@Aqua66,
You have my utmost respect for learning to ski in your mid 60s. Falling over a lot is completely normal in your first few weeks. Impact shorts may be of some help to you. |
Thanks, just ordered a pair of padded shorts
OLdfart, DrLawn that info is way over my head
Seen some adult skis at 130 lenght s/h so might get them
Whitegold Grown men with child skis in the liftline look ridiculous.
image is something i have never bothered about
Dave of the Marmottes so in my book you get a free pass on skiing whatever you can that works for your balance. It's just better to be out doing it than not
Thank you
Thanks to all of you for replying, realy enjoying the info, even if its a bit above and beyond sometimes
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Aqua66, obviously the most important thing is that you enjoy your time on snow.
My dad still enjoys skiing at 80 (after two hip replacements) and we both think it helps keep him young. My relatives say that trying to stand up again after a skiing fall is much more of a struggle with ageing muscles, so strength training is important.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Aqua66 wrote: |
OLdfart, DrLawn that info is way over my head
|
In case it's of interest, I will try and explain - and I'm sure someone will correct me if I get something wrong.
Stiffness
This is down to the construction, where the thickness of the core of the ski and how much metal is in it, determines how stiff the ski will feel and thus how hard it is to bend into a turn. Stiffness is often (but not always) associated with the weight of the ski. Stiffer skis are generally better suited for heavier, more advanced skiers - as they are less forgiving and require extra force to bend.
1. Camber
A Piste Ski has a positive camber that runs the full length, which simply means it is "bowed" upwards when placed unweighted on a flat surface. When you clip into the skis, it pushes them flat to the snow, and because of the tip to tail camber, there is more pressure on the tips and tails (gives extra "bite" to aid turning). The full length camber is considered best for Piste skiing, but requires more precision in one's movements.
An All Mountain Ski usually has an "Early Rise" at the tip and possibly at the tail as well (and a positive camber on the rest of the ski ie. same as a Piste ski, only shorter). This is just a fancy way of saying the front (and possibly back) of the ski starts bending upwards earlier. This early bend is also called a "Rocker". What this does, is lessen the effective edge On Piste, making the ski feel shorter than its length might suggest. When taken into deeper snow, the full edge becomes available.
This "Early Rise" Tip (ie. Tip Rocker) helps the ski float upwards in deeper snow and makes turn initiation easier. The downside - depending on the length of the Rocker - is it can get a bit flappy.
The Tail Rocker helps with "Surfy" skiing and allows for easier pivoting, as the tail of the ski isn't locking you into a turn shape.
2. Ski Width, Sidecut and Turn Radius
Piste Skis are generally shorter; narrower, especially underfoot (faster edge to edge and grippier on ice); with a more pronounced hourglass shape (Sidecut), which allows them to make tighter turns (shorter turn radius). If they are skied very short (say 130-150), they will have a rated turn radius of say 10m or less - so will always want to be turning and thus can feel very twitchy and nervous when going straighter at speed.
All Mountain Skis are designed to handle both Piste and (to some degree) Off Piste, by having design elements of both types of ski. They are thus wider and longer than Piste Skis (for more surface area), usually have a less pronounced hourglass shape (Sidecut) and thus often have a longer Turn Radius. They are a compromise - as they are not as good as Piste skis, On Piste; and not as good as Freeride skis Off Piste. There are AM skis that are more Piste Orientated and ones that are more Off Piste orientated.
The trouble is - the characteristics that make a really good Piste Ski (stiff/full camber/tighter turn radius), are the opposite of what you want Off Piste - and vica versa...so it's about deciding where you are going to ski and choosing your compromises.
I hope that helps - though it's quite possible that I have confused you even more.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 30-09-23 19:21; edited 4 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| Aqua66 wrote: |
OLdfart, DrLawn that info is way over my head
|
In case it's of interest, I will try and explain - and I'm sure someone will correct me if I get something wrong.
Stiffness
This is down to the construction, where the thickness of the core of the ski and how much metal is in it, determines how stiff the ski will feel and thus how hard it is to bend into a turn. Stiffness is often (but not always) associated with the weight of the ski. Stiffer skis are generally better suited for heavier, more advanced skiers - as they are less forgiving and require extra force to bend.
1. Camber
A Piste Ski has a positive camber that runs the full length (tip to tail), which simply means it is "bowed" upwards when placed unweighted on a flat surface. When you clip into the skis, it pushes them flat to the snow, and because of the camber, there is more pressure on the tips and tails (gives extra "bite" to aid turning). The full length camber is considered best for Piste skiing, but requires more precision in one's movements.
An All Mountain Ski usually has an "Early Rise" at the tip and possibly at the tail as well. This is just a fancy way of saying the front (and possibly back) of the ski starts bending upwards earlier. This early bend is also called a "Rocker". What this does, is lessen the effective edge On Piste, making the ski feel shorter than its length might suggest. When taken into deeper snow, the full edge becomes available.
This "Early Rise" Tip (ie. Tip Rocker) helps the ski float upwards in deeper snow and makes turn initiation easier. The downside - depending on the length of the Rocker - is it can get a bit flappy.
The Tail Rocker helps with "Surfy" skiing and allows for easier pivoting, as the tail of the ski isn't locking you into a turn shape.
2. Ski Width, Sidecut and Turn Radius
Piste Skis are generally shorter; narrower, especially underfoot (faster edge to edge and grippier on ice); with a more pronounced hourglass shape (Sidecut), which allows them to make tighter turns (shorter turn radius). If they are skied very short (say 130-150), they will have a rated turn radius of say 10m or less - so will always want to be turning and thus can feel very twitchy and nervous when going straighter at speed.
All Mountain Skis are designed to handle both Piste and (to one degree or another) Off Piste, by having design elements of both types of ski. They are thus wider and longer than Piste Skis (for more surface area), usually have a less pronounced hourglass shape (Sidecut) and thus often have a longer Turn Radius. They are a compromise - as they are not as good as Piste skis, On Piste; and not as good as Freeride skis Off Piste. There are AM skis that are more Piste Orientated and ones that are more Off Piste orientated.
The trouble is - the characteristics that make a really good Piste Ski (stiff/full camber/tighter turn radius), are the opposite of what you want Off Piste - and vica versa...so it's about deciding where you are going to ski and choosing your compromises.
I hope that helps - though it's quite possible that I have confused you even more. |
Well that explains a lot for me, simple and clear 
Thank You
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Aqua66, Its not the length that is important ... Its the colour.
The rule is, if your colours are co-ordinated you'll go faster.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| DrLawn wrote: |
@Aqua66, Its not the length that is important ... Its the colour.
The rule is, if your colours are co-ordinated you'll go faster. |
Damn - that is much simpler and would have saved me a lot explaining! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Why are "Redsters" Green?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
