 Poster: A snowHead
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| easton wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Given the profile, another vote for Verbier. |
Can you expound on this a bit? |
A substantial ski area, with legendary off-piste, and lots of (mostly sophisticated and expensive, but still...) après. It's scenic - though not in the same league as the Jungfrau region or the Dolomites, in my opinion - and the village itself is not unattractive. |
I'd endorse this , quite an accurate portrait of it. Wondering how to word it's pictorial quality, but agree with above, maybe not in the absolute alpine chocolate box category, but nice all the same.
Skiing, both on and off piste really good, and don't feel it lacks anything piste wise (counter to comment about being mainly off piste in a previous post) with a simply huge range of slope to work with.
For accommodation cost variance, Nendaz Village is sited at northern edge of whole area (Verbier south) and offers decent cost advantages to then ski the same domain. Recently updated connections have cancelled those reservations that previous reviews may have picked as a disadvantage to easy access. Apres a little more descreet and personal than verbier itself, but a good place to be post skiing.
No doubts, its a very good and substantially sized area to ski and well worth considering for the group.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Verbier is also not terribly far from Geneva, so the transfer is manageable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@easton,
Are you guys bringing your own skis etc?
Have you considered taking the train to meet up with the rest of the group (either at their entry airport or in resort)? This site is excellent for international train travel https://www.seat61.com/
I know you mentioned the Alps, but consider Andorra - Barcelona is one of the entry airports for the country, approx a 2.5 hour drive.
Your dates also match the Snowheads birthday bash:- https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5089078
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I have not been there, but if you wanted to eliminate the air transfer from BCN to whichever airport, Baquiera-Beret
seems to be a decent resort to consider - located in the Pyrenees maybe ~3 hr transit from Barcelona.
Decent # of nice hotels and a few chalets, though some are downvalley in the towns.
Bonus is the opportunity for tapas bar crawl in the evening....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Snowshoer, Baqueira is quite fine (Mrs Uann did 2 seasons there and I think we're going for a weekend in Jan) but really rather small as a town - and as it's only the OP who's arriving from Barcelona, the rest of the party from the US, I don't think I'd choose Baqueira over any of the other suggestions, myself.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Snowshoer, Baqueira is quite fine (Mrs Uann did 2 seasons there and I think we're going for a weekend in Jan) but really rather small as a town - and as it's only the OP who's arriving from Barcelona, the rest of the party from the US, I don't think I'd choose Baqueira over any of the other suggestions, myself. |
+1 (I shall be there in February.)
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Nobody has mentioned Kitbuel yet?
Huge ski area with great apres ski.
@easton, Portland ... wow, I drove there when Nixon was being impeached and streakers were troting naked through Lewis and Clarke campus.
I think I would choose Zermatt, fabulous skinery, snow sure, a trip into Italy and an easy ride from Geneva Airport by train.
You can have a picnic on the train in 1st class and look across the lake from Geneva.
The one thing you are unlikely to find is accomadation that you don't have to make a solid booking in advance.
Anywhere that is anywhere at that time of year you will need to book, its not like Banff.
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I'm putting together a list of places for the group to vote on and need to narrow it down. Your suggestions have been incredibly valuable.
Here is what I've settled on for finalists and have sent them to the group to vote on using the Troupe app.
Zermatt
St. Anton
Chamonix
Dolomiti Superski
Kitzbuhel
Verbier
Which would you eliminate?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Austria vs France ... food and culture are very different and matter of preference. Lots of sweeping generalisations but ...
Austria is generally cheaper - especially on slope food and drink.
Austria is (generally) towns or villages that also have skiing, vs France - purpose built resorts.
Austria is generally quieter slopes and shorter or no lift queues - but your looking at the start of the busy period for both, you'll notice this as you hit the weekend at the end of your stay.
Ski-in/out accommodation is harder (but not impossible) to find in Austria. If you want evening apres in Austria, pick somewhere in town, even if you have a walk or short bus ride to the lift.
You are absolutely spoilt for choice, and that's even without looking at Italy, Switzerland, or Scandinavia.
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For real destination skiing I'd say Kitzbühel, fantastic high end town, huge fast lift system. With a short 5 min shuttle bus ride you can ski on into the Skiwelt to give you a massive area, arguably exceeding the 3V. And if you miss the last lift, a taxi back is not extortionate at a max of 40 minutes. Downside? Kitzbühel town is probably the most expensive accommodation in Austria (But still comparable to France). To ski into the Skiwelt get the Superski pass, at less than the cost of a good meal extra, you'll have a much bigget area.
Zell am See would be second recommendation. With a short one way bus ride (you can ski back) you can also ski Saalbach Hinterglem to give the area you want. A good town, and the lake adding to the vistas. A 20 min bus ride will take you Kaprun, for access to the truly Stunning Kitzsteinhorn glacier area. All on the one 'local' pass. And if you miss the last lift back, as long as you can get back into the Saalbach valley there are regular free busses back. From Fieberbrun, you'll need a taxi, but at about 40 mins it won't break the bank.
Both have excellent rail services from Innsbruck, Salzburg, Munich, or even Zurich.
If you have a car from either you could get the Superski pass and ski a different resort each day for a fortnight within an hours drive.
Mayrhofen (especially with other resorts in the Ziller valley too), Sölden, and Ischgl would all also be great choices.
St Anton is the only major resort in Austria I've not skied, so no comment.
Travel from Munich:
All of the major resorts in Austria are between 1:40 and 3:00 drive from Munich Airport - if you can't access Salzburg or Innsbruck direct. Most main resorts are in the valley, so access even in bad weather is good (Austrian or German hire cars have to come with snow tyres and chains). Unless you book remote accommodation you're highly unlikely to need chains. If you come via Munich, you may need to stop at a motorway service station before leaving Germany to grab your Austrian Autobahn pass (at ~ €10 for 15 days it's tiny compared to French tolls, normally included on Austrian hire cars), but look at toll free routes instead - for many resorts you'll use more time stopping for the vignette than you save. For Western resorts, in bad weather, use the longer distance (but not time) Autobahn route to avoid high-ish passes (800-1,200 m), in good weather it's a toss up whether motorway or direct route is quicker. The motorway route is an easier drive, but some fantastic scenery on direct routes over the passes.
Oh - and whichever route from Munich - you'll have some travel on some sections of the famed no speed limit Autobahn (traffic and weather permitting!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| easton wrote: |
I'm putting together a list of places for the group to vote on and need to narrow it down. Your suggestions have been incredibly valuable.
Here is what I've settled on for finalists and have sent them to the group to vote on using the Troupe app.
Zermatt
St. Anton
Chamonix
Dolomiti Superski
Kitzbuhel
Verbier
Which would you eliminate? |
All those not starting with Z. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| BigJin wrote: |
Travel from Munich:
All of the major resorts in Austria are between 1:40 and 3:00 drive from Munich Airport - if you can't access Salzburg or Innsbruck direct. Most main resorts are in the valley, so access even in bad weather is good (Austrian or German hire cars have to come with snow tyres and chains). Unless you book remote accommodation you're highly unlikely to need chains. If you come via Munich, you may need to stop at a motorway service station before leaving Germany to grab your Austrian Autobahn pass (at ~ €10 for 15 days it's tiny compared to French tolls, normally included on Austrian hire cars), but look at toll free routes instead - for many resorts you'll use more time stopping for the vignette than you save. |
The Austrian vignette isn't available for 15 days, it's either 10 days, 2 months or a year.
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@Kenzie,
I like the Kitz area but I wouldn't stay in Kitz. From that list I would choose the Dolomites.
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You know it makes sense.
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The more I’m thinking about this the more the following sounds appealing, the me know what you think:
Start in Zermatt. Ski 3 days.
Day 4, travel to Grindelwald. Ski 3 more days.
This would check off a lot of boxes and be a pretty memorable trip. My impression of the ski areas in the Jungfrau region (summer time) was that it wasn’t super challenging, and that might be just what we need after hitting it hard the first 3 days.
I envy you euros and your culture of multi-week vacations.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I’m not a big fan of Jungfrau. The villages are cute. But the skiing is so so.
The mountain scenery is good, but not Dolomite level of good.
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Poster: A snowHead
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In your position I'd ski St Anton. pound for pound it cannot be bettered for accessible freeride skiing in the alps. I'd then go to the next valley and ski Ischgl pound for pound this has the liveliest apres in the Alps.
Both ski areas are big and fun. You'll get to eat decent Austrian food and party Austrian apres style.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In your position I'd ski St Anton. pound for pound it cannot be bettered for accessible freeride skiing in the alps. I'd then go to the next valley and ski Ischgl pound for pound this has the liveliest apres in the Alps.
Both ski areas are big and fun. You'll get to eat decent Austrian food and party Austrian apres style.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@easton, I envy you 'merkins and your culture of not working Fridays so much, nor Monday mornings, lots of sneaky days off and taking the family on business conferences ... (well, that's my observations of east coast esp. NYC working cultures  )
Zermatt to Grindelwald is a +/- a days travel ... but you get to take a Swiss auto-rail https://www.zermatt.ch/en/arrival/Arrival-by-car/Car-Train/Loetschberg-Car-Train
@Mother hucker, off piste wasn't in the OP's requirements ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If going to the Dolomites, which towns would you suggest staying in? I would prefer to stay somewhere that has been updated and is close to lifts with solid apres.
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Are you primarily piste skiers or off piste? If you want to ski proper off piste then you can’t beat Verbier, Chamonix, St Anton etc and places like Dolomites, Kitzbuhel and Wengen shouldn’t get anywhere near your list. If you’re fine just skiing pistes all day it’s a different matter.
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| easton wrote: |
| If going to the Dolomites, which towns would you suggest staying in? I would prefer to stay somewhere that has been updated and is close to lifts with solid apres. |
Selva/Wolkenstein (that's one town, the first name is the Italian name and the second is the German one) probably fits those criteria well. Many hotels there with modern facilities and quite close to the lifts , e.g I've stayed at the Hotel Armin but there are many others. Selva is directly on the Sella Ronda circuit, but it's also at the top of the Val Gardena valley which has a wide ski area of its own, including the SasLong Men's World Cup downhill course, and the 10.5km La Longia red run down from Seceda to Ortisei/St. Ulrich. On the other side of Ortisei is the Alpe di Suisi/Seiseralm which is the largest alpine meadow in Europe and has many blue runs but there is a new red/black run La Pilat that goes from the Alpe di Suisi back down to Ortisei.
Selva is also good for apres ski e.g the Luiskeller
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 15-09-23 8:28; edited 1 time in total
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@BobinCH, given off piste hasn't been mentioned by the OP ...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@under a new name, but if they're very experienced skiers, they surely won't just have been skiing groomers at home?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The US ski acres of terrain not kms of piste so I suspect they are quite used to off-piste, at least at the lower skill levels.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| But let's ask, hey @easton - off piste or not for the group? @BobinCH raises a very important point. |
And also hopefully @easton and his friends appreciate the difference between off piste but still inbounds in the US (where the inbounds area is still avalanche controlled) and Europe where once you go off-piste you do so at your own risk and should have the full avi kit (and know how to use it).
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You know it makes sense.
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Fly to Geneva, get the train to Zermatt for a few days and get yourself warmed up in the shadow of the Matterhorn fuelled up with a nice Swiss lunch at Chez Vrony followed by an Italian one at Chalet Étoile. Then get the train back to Verbier for some proper skiing - if it’s dumping hit up the Bruson forests and itineraries down the back and when the sun comes out head up Mont Gelé and Mont Fort and get yourself off the back with a guide. After a beer at Pub Mont Fort, fire up après at the Farinet, followed by a nice steak at La Grange and a Whisky sour at the Rabbit Hutch.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@easton, Your plan for 3 days in Zermatt then 3 in Grindelwald is a pretty good one though there will be a reasonable length train journey in the middle - an experience if you are into trains, at least three different ones (not sure if direct trains from Visp to Interlaken, I guess you have to change in Spiez too) though always easy in Switzerland. You go to the Dolomites for the scenery & atmosphere rather than challenging skiing (though there is some in the right snow conditions). If you want some steep lumpy (hopefully powdery) runs then St Anton, Verbier or Chamonix would be better. St Anton has the added "attraction" of serious apres ski (though perhaps not as wild as a few years back).
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Poster: A snowHead
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@easton,
Personally I'd do seven days in Zermatt, with day extensions to Valtournenche and Breuil-Cervinia in Italy as and when weather/links allow.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We are all fine going off piste, but I’d probably prefer to stay on the pistes with such a large group in an unknown resort.
I really enjoyed the giant steep runs at the Grands Montets, and am pretty sure that the others will too.
If we decide to go off piste, we will likely do so for a day with a guide, as I am fully aware that off piste is very much the “no  around zone” in many places over there.
The terror at the VB was the walk down from the tram to the top of the leisurely run to the bottom.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@easton, if the group likes off piste and you are coming all the way from the US I would be getting a guide and cutting loose. With 10 of you a couple of guides wouldn't be too costly in the scheme of things. They can make it as mellow or gnarly as you want (maybe 2 groups?).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@easton, the joys of the internet. Anyway, per Layne, I'd totally be doing exactly that.
Which narrows it down, in my head, to Verbier or Val d'Isere/Tignes in France. I have never been to St Anton, so can't comment. Or Chamonix again, but I reckon it's just a bit less "accessible" ...
Either of those can be quite as mellow as skiing on your own around e.g. Alta. But guides will only maximise your fun. Assuming the snow is favourable. But they both have heaps on piste if the off piste is sketchy for whatever reason.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| BigJin wrote: |
Travel from Munich:
All of the major resorts in Austria are between 1:40 and 3:00 drive from Munich Airport - if you can't access Salzburg or Innsbruck direct. Most main resorts are in the valley, so access even in bad weather is good (Austrian or German hire cars have to come with snow tyres and chains). Unless you book remote accommodation you're highly unlikely to need chains. If you come via Munich, you may need to stop at a motorway service station before leaving Germany to grab your Austrian Autobahn pass (at ~ €10 for 15 days it's tiny compared to French tolls, normally included on Austrian hire cars), but look at toll free routes instead - for many resorts you'll use more time stopping for the vignette than you save. |
The Austrian vignette isn't available for 15 days, it's either 10 days, 2 months or a year. |
Thanks for correction- failure of memory!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| easton wrote: |
The more I’m thinking about this the more the following sounds appealing, the me know what you think:
Start in Zermatt. Ski 3 days.
Day 4, travel to Grindelwald. Ski 3 more days.
This would check off a lot of boxes and be a pretty memorable trip. My impression of the ski areas in the Jungfrau region (summer time) was that it wasn’t super challenging, and that might be just what we need after hitting it hard the first 3 days.
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Hitting it hard in Zermatt? Zermatt is not that challenging. In fact it's skiing is not the best of the Alps at all. Piste-skiing is well, okayish. And off-piste not extensive, and only with guides because of the glaciers. And snow often very hard (inner-alpine, dry climate)
You go to Zermatt for the unique Matterhorn and the village, and nice skiing. C'est ça.
For "hitting it hard" you go to St.Anton, Verbier, Val d'Isere
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| under a new name wrote: |
@easton, the joys of the internet. Anyway, per Layne, I'd totally be doing exactly that.
Which narrows it down, in my head, to Verbier or Val d'Isere/Tignes in France. I have never been to St Anton, so can't comment. Or Chamonix again, but I reckon it's just a bit less "accessible" ...
Either of those can be quite as mellow as skiing on your own around e.g. Alta. But guides will only maximise your fun. Assuming the snow is favourable. But they both have heaps on piste if the off piste is sketchy for whatever reason. |
I’d put a different spin on that.
For American skier who really like off-piste, the European “off the side of piste” is going to be a let down. Because it’s no better than what they have at home.
Besides, if they don’t come equipped with their own avi gear, they’re playing with their life!
However, if the OP’s group are accomplished off-piste skiers, they’re better off taking on one of the more exciting going way off the map with a guide! Big mountain and long descends! That’s the kind of experience hard to have in North America. For a relatively moderate sum compare to doing the same in North America!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I had forgotten, @abc, your penchant for jumping to conclusions based on limited data (Of course, you could easily accuse me of the same).
[For clarity, I've skied around 13 NA areas plus a few weeks heliskiing. + SHs is not representative of the European ski population. Most people round here (Chamonix), admittedly in/near the alps, ski and ski off piste.]
My point was only that "experienced" does not indicate a bias towards off piste, and less so in NA than in Europe, in my (incomplete) experience.
Anyhoo, back more on topic, "For American skier who really like off-piste, the European “off the side of piste” is going to be a let down."
I'm not entirely sure what you mean? This below, f'rinstance, is the back of Mont Fort*, a few steps from the cable car at the top. Yes, you'd want your avvy gear, but that's easily rentable. Would you need a guide? well, if you haven't skied it before, probably. But certainly a bit gnarlier than most pitches inbounds in e.g. Alta (High Rustler, perhaps, excluded).
* I can't believe how skied out it is  I skied it in ~1992 and we were the only skiers on it.
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| Quote: |
I can't believe how skied out it is Shocked I skied it in ~1992 and we were the only skiers on it.
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That’s exactly my point!
You can do that in North America, EASILY! Lots of such opportunity! Why fly half way across the globe to ski something you have at home everyday of the season?
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FAQ
