 Poster: A snowHead
|
I see Crystal Ski have introduced an "extra" tier to their snow promise:
https://www.crystalski.co.uk/the-crystal-snow-promise/
The extra option costs £25 per person and must be selected before 30 Nov.
Basically if 50% of the runs are closed in the area you're travelling to in the week before you're due to travel, you can change your holiday to another.
So the question is, is worth it? Or better to save the £25 for extra beers/food etc.
Clearly it depends on where you're going. I'm looking at going to Montgenevre, probably 3rd or 4th week of January. To qualify for the option to move, 50% of the runs in the whole of the Milky Way area would need to be closed.
Is Montgenevre sufficiently snow sure towards the end of January that there is no point taking up this option?
Is the probability of less then 50% of the runs being closed at that time in the whole of the Milky way area so low that even if the conditions in Montgenevre were a bit ropey, I wouldn't get the option to move anyway?
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Trouble I can see is that by the time you get to exercise your option if it's a terrible year then most of the more snowsure alternatives will already be booked up. That plus haggling over what is equivalent accomodation etc or gouging you for price differences over what you paid. I'd avoid and accept skiing is a weather dependent sport and that occasionally I'll have a holiday where conditions suck.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
When I was in Montgenevre many (many) years ago - IIRC The Links to Italy were closed. If this can still happen, it would mean that over 50% of the runs in the area could be open, but you wouldn't be able to access the Italian skiing.
However, my info could be well out of date.
Personally, I choose where I want to go/stay and deal with the conditions that I find. I agree with the potential problems highlighted by @Dave of the Marmottes.
I'm with Crystal next year (early Jan) and decided against taking that option....but I am going somewhere high and with access to a Glacier - and with a good snow record (Tignes).
Here is what "WeatherToSki" has to say about Montgenevre: https://www.weathertoski.co.uk/european-resorts-a-z/montgen%C3%A8vre-france/
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
50% is a high bar - which is why this "insurance" is so cheap. At a bad time it will tend to be the steeper runs, and those with a worse aspect, which will be closed whereas shallower, close to resort, runs which are needed to get about the place will be kept open by hook or by crook.
There are inevitably lots of little runs which one never thinks about, but which have names. If the criterion was 50% of the mileage being closed, that would be a better bet! Even if almost all the runs you actually want to ski are closed, this "guarantee" could be useless.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
We've been at the arse ends of the season (Christmas or pre-Christmas and one of the "Easter" fortnight weeks) for the last dozen or so years and the only time this would have applied is when we where booked to go to Les Sept Laux and because of lack of snow it didn't open. It was a DIY trip so we simply booked an apartment in Tignes instead.
I think the chances of it being activated in mid to late January in Montgenevre is minimal. Most likely problem would be high winds/storm but that would only be for a couple of days. And even if it were triggered I would imagine it would be a massive pia to go through.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Layne wrote: |
| I think the chances of it being activated in mid to late January in Montgenevre is minimal. |
I agree. The Via Lattea is a bit of a gamble for snow in New Year week - but even then Montgenevre is the sector which tends to do best - but a couple of weeks later you would be very unlucky not to find it 50% open.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@paulrow,
Is that 50% closed on one day during the week before you travel, or for the whole week?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The T's and C's say this:
Slope, ski run availability and live snow conditions will be determined using data taken from www.onthesnow.co.uk. If www.onthesnow.co.uk doesn’t have any resort information, official resort website/data will be used instead. No other sources will be considered. We'll use the live conditions in the 4 days before you go, not the forecast conditions for your arrival.
Thanks all for the replies. My instinct is also not to bother with this and enjoy a week in the mountains walking in the unlikely event the snow is terrible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
In around 40 years of skiing I've never had over 50 % of runs closed for lack of snow that I can remember or anything like that number. Storm closure is much more common. I've been on a lot of late (April) season holidays but not so many early (Dec) ones.
I doubt like most others that the guarantee is worth paying for. Having said that early season holidays can be a bit scratchy even with runs open and wherever possible I would always book fairly late if at all possible as you then know you will get decent snow and except for one or two resorts accommodation is generally very easy to find in the low /early season until 2nd week of Feb excluding xmas /NY.
I have to say having traveled past and occasionally skied in the Milky Way from my many trips to Serre Che it is one of the less snow sure areas and seeing brown fields with a few white strips in Jan is not that uncommon. The actual area around Montgenevre itself though is much better than the rest of it .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So we are going to La Thuile in Italy on 24 December … and today is the last days when we can still add the Crystal ski promise - which is described above. I know it has snowed in Alps in the last couple of days but it’s almost a month to go so probably not relevant to the snow conditions when we go. The cost of the snow promise is relatively low , so £100 per family of 4… is it really not worth it ? Opinions 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
50% by number of runs (bad for you) or 50% by distance?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
This is a good point- l will need to call them to ask…
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
50% is a very high bar. I doubt they actually have to honor that very often. I'd save the money.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
So l have read their T&C and it says that this it applies if 50% is closed based on the status on onthesnow.co.uk OR if ski school is cancelled due to the lack of snow …
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Total waste of money IMO, highly unlikely you'd ever be able to invoke it, and then as previously mentioned, likely few alternative options if you did need to...
If it was 50% by distance, and gave you option to move to any other comparable holiday (eg similar length flight, standard of accommodation etc) without any further charge, that could be useful. But it would be a lot more expensive!
In any case, if you have decent snow sports cover in your travel insurance, you might find you already have as good cover there as Crystal are trying to sell you...
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 29-11-23 10:45; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@Bella2015, it's pretty shadow-eeee and definitely cool over there on that side of the area. Think it keeps any snowfall really well, probably better value spent on good Italian food while there.
It'll be interesting after the time to tell us if we got it wrong too  hope you and family have a good ski holiday and feel it'll be fine snow wise.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| So we are going to La Thuile in Italy on 24 December … and today is the last days when we can still add the Crystal ski promise - which is described above. I know it has snowed in Alps in the last couple of days but it’s almost a month to go so probably not relevant to the snow conditions when we go. The cost of the snow promise is relatively low , so £100 per family of 4… is it really not worth it ? Opinions |
Ordinarily I certainly wouldn't but at the time of the year there is a chance it could trigger. But bear in mind transferring to another destination for the same week may not be beneficial. So then the question is would you want to bin the holiday and go later in the season. I go at the time every year and accept the conditions as they are. Mostly I am not disappointed but even in a bad year we enjoy it. Ski school being cancelled seems highly unlikely to me. So you have to ask not only the likelihood of it happening (slim) but of you wanting to change your plans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| So l have read their T&C and it says that this it applies if 50% is closed based on the status on onthesnow.co.uk OR if ski school is cancelled due to the lack of snow … |
Still unclear whether that relates to 50% of pistes, or 50% of km?
Does it mention how much they'd charge if you got switched to another resort/hotel where the total cost of the holiday would normally be a lot more expensive?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| mikeycharlton wrote: |
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| So l have read their T&C and it says that this it applies if 50% is closed based on the status on onthesnow.co.uk OR if ski school is cancelled due to the lack of snow … |
Still unclear whether that relates to 50% of pistes, or 50% of km?
Does it mention how much they'd charge if you got switched to another resort/hotel where the total cost of the holiday would normally be a lot more expensive? |
Yup still unclear as no telling how inthesnow measure that metric In fact when I look they show % over 3 types of runs by difficulty, not an overall %.
I reckons not really worth it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@Layne, l think if the snow situation will really be so bad that there is virtually no ski we would rather change and even take kids out of school if needs be. We only ski once a year so… although we always go at Christmas for many years and it was really bad only once in 2015 l think
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Might even be 50% of lifts. Where a few magic carpets would bump the figure up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@ster, well l am guessing it is by the number of pistes not km… but yes unclear
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| mikeycharlton wrote: |
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| So l have read their T&C and it says that this it applies if 50% is closed based on the status on onthesnow.co.uk OR if ski school is cancelled due to the lack of snow … |
Still unclear whether that relates to 50% of pistes, or 50% of km?
Does it mention how much they'd charge if you got switched to another resort/hotel where the total cost of the holiday would normally be a lot more expensive? |
It says "Less than 50% of runs"
You have to make the change - i.e. the choice of resort/hotel is up to you :: If dearer - pay extra ; if cheaper - difference refunded
Last edited by After all it is free  on Wed 29-11-23 11:18; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| @Layne, l think if the snow situation will really be so bad that there is virtually no ski we would rather change and even take kids out of school if needs be. We only ski once a year so… although we always go at Christmas for many years and it was really bad only once in 2015 l think |
Yeah I was in Flaine that Christmas. There were about 4 pistes to ski all week. Links to the GM were closed due to lack of snow, and the adjoining resorts had even less open than Flaine. Think i managed to get a 25% refund on my lift pass, despite the fact that around 80% of the pistes were closed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| @Layne, l think if the snow situation will really be so bad that there is virtually no ski we would rather change and even take kids out of school if needs be. We only ski once a year so… although we always go at Christmas for many years and it was really bad only once in 2015 l think |
Suspect it was December 2014. That was the year we were going to Les Sept Laux which didn't open and we changed to Tignes.
So for £100 it might be worth it for you. Although if 51% of runs are open it could still be pretty bad and it wouldn't trigger. And also a dump may be coming. Could make for a stressful last few days constantly checking the weather forecast!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Onthesnow.co.uk show an "x% open" figure under number of trails but unclear how it is calculated. Eg Tignes is currently showing as "51% open" with 41 pistes open out of 79. Val Thorens has 42 of 82 open, but is "70% open". Samnaum has 0 of 76, but is still "61% open"!!!
Crystal may have chosen a measure which means you can never claim!
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
@ecureuil, at present many - most - resorts are not open at all, and it's still November. So current figures aren't a good guide for what might happen later. If Crystal thought this would crop up more than once in a blue moon, it would cost a lot more!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm in the keep your money in your pocket camp on this!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
"Less than 50% of runs"
|
Indeed, what does it mean: 50% of named pistes, 50% of the length of all pistes, itinteries? How long do they have to be closed for? And who does the measurment.
I note that in the basic cover it says "Less than 2 blue/red/black/black diamond runs are open in the ski area you’re travelling to" clearly green runs don't count, but is this list an "and" or an "or" list. The extra page seems to include when the pistes are closed due to avalanche risk. So on thse occaisions when Les Arcs is closed for a morning due to avalanche risk and in those instances over half the resort is closed does htis mean you can choose another resort?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Bella2015 wrote: |
| @ster, well l am guessing it is by the number of pistes not km… but yes unclear |
If I had to guess I would say thats how they would measure but no telling for sure and even if inthesnow will always have correct and up to date info for the resort you are concerned with.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
That snow promise is just a useless bit of apparent insurance that has probably so many get out clauses it’s basically useless! I say this and we are booked with them on 23rd December to flaine… wish us luck  . But even with this I didn’t buy it! I guess if we’d booked somewhere even lower for this date we may of edged towards getting it, they probably pick and choose what the “resort” means anyway, either just the area you are in or the whole ski domaine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| ecureuil wrote: |
Onthesnow.co.uk show an "x% open" figure under number of trails but unclear how it is calculated. Eg Tignes is currently showing as "51% open" with 41 pistes open out of 79. Val Thorens has 42 of 82 open, but is "70% open". Samnaum has 0 of 76, but is still "61% open"!!!
Crystal may have chosen a measure which means you can never claim! |
If that is what it says for Tignes then it is wildly over.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I suspect claiming is fairly hard.
I haven't heard of any case where there wasn't enough snow to meet this limit (though plausibly getting more likely). And if there is that poor snow, it is likely to be bad across large regions so where will you change to... (between modern snowmaking and resort opening times).
I have chatted to a few people who had almost no skiing for a week because high winds/storms shut everything/almost everything - even when open you couldn't trust it wouldn't shut and trap you somewhere. But that won't be protected by the snow promise..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Onthesnow probably taking a back hander...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Ok thank you all - seems like not worth it based on overall advice.. still have a few hours to decide until midnight, but sounds like we should rather use the money for some nice Italian dinner as sh@ski3 suggested
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
