 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all
Have previously asked questions here and have always been given great advice
Looking to book a short 3 days skiing in December this year. We have previously been to Chamonix, Andorra, 3 Valleys and the Dolomoites.
Dolomites were probably our favourite but thinking of possibly going to Zermatt this year, partly because of the snow in Dec
How does Zermatt match up in terms of slopes and skiing compared to say Selva and also what is it like for ambience around the place?
Also open to other suggestions, any advice is greatly appreciated
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Personally for a 3 days short break, i'd be looking for somewhere with as short of a transfer as possible. Zermatt definitely isn't that.
However, I did spend a couple of days in Zermatt in April and loved the town. Can't say much about the skiing as one day was a white out, the next day a Giant Slalom race so i've barely skied the area to have an opinion on it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks SWskier.
Chamonix is probably the most accessible but one of the people coming with us is quite a nervous skier so I don't think they'd like it there.
Zermatt is 3.30 on a train from Geneva or Zurich, Dolomites roughly the same from Milan or Venice.
Others I know of that are close to slopes (Innsbruck, Chambery) don't do direct flights from our airports.
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@vinf, Zermatt has got some great skiing plus a nice town and some iconic views of the Matterhorn - thoroughly enjoyed our time skiing there.
If your looking at resorts closer to Geneva with a nervous skier in tow, then Avoriaz is always an option. Obviously December is is a bit of a gamble for all but the highest of resorts but Avoriaz is a good combo of variety of slopes, fairly high (1800m resort level) and close to Geneva.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@vinf, Zermatt is a great resort and is high enough to be snow sure at that time of year. Also ok for a nervous skier on certain parts of the area. Train journey is also part of the holiday with scenic views (travel in daylight if you can).
Can't beat the views of the Matterhorn and the town itself is better than most
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@vinf, not sure either place is ideal especially for a short trip, I assume you are thinking pre christmas?. Whilst Zermatt does indeed have some very high snow sure skiing it is very prone to weather issues especially in mid winter, the slopes nearer the village dont tend to open that early and Zermatt is not the "snowiest" location. The train from Geneva is not too bad but it does involve a change in Brig. Dont underestimate the trip involved even with efficient Swiss trains. The "Dolomites" is a large area, you would need to choose you location carefully to be within easy access of Venice (Milan is a bit of a long trip especially if into Malpensa). There is excellent snow making because the natural snow is so unreliable! You should be OK in December but there is a high chance of white strips amongst green fields!
What about Verbier, easy from Geneva and good early snow record?
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@munich_irish, I don't think it's fair to say that Zermatt "is very prone to weather issues". It would be likely that the nervous skier would be on either Gornergrat or Sunnegga neither of which is particularly exposed. Yes, the Klein Matterhorn glacier can get pretty windy but no more so than other high resorts and I would say it is open more often than not.
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We’ve had some excellent pre Xmas Zermatt weekends but i do recall some very cold runs at the end of the day so make sure you’ve got good kit in case the forecast is for cold weather. Or just hold up in Zum See!
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@DCG, Gornergrat is 3100 meters. Not exposed???
I remember going down from Gornergrat to the village, during Christmas-week on a bleak day. Never had so much pain on my cheeks.
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I do a lot of DIY shortbreaks. Couple of variables might help narrow it down for better recommendations:-
When in December? A lot of resorts don't open until week before Christmas, though there are a few well known early season resorts (Solden / Obergurgl, prob Cervinia, Tignes)
Are you willing to drive or do you have to get a train / transfer?
What do you want from the resort? Sounds like a nice atmosphere is important to you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I’d say that Zermatt is more reliable for snow in December but that Selva is more reliable for skiing.
Zermatt can have quite a lot of runs open up on the glacier but it’s difficult and expensive to reach and the weather can be very poor.
Selva is dependent on snowmaking but early season skiing has proved reliable there over the last 20 years. Last season the Sella Ronda opened on the 3rd December with 88 lifts and 154kms of skiing. The lifts then stayed open for the rest of the season with only a few interruptions.
The Dolomites are more sheltered than the central alps and a lot lower. Once the snow is made and the skiing opens it is much less likely to close than the higher alpine resorts because of wind, avalanche risk or poor visibility.
Some years it can be too warm to make enough snow by early December in which case opening will be delayed. I’d say that most years there is more likely to be more kms of ski runs and lifts open consistently in the Dolomites than almost anywhere else in the Alps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yeah I see those posts every year here - probably from you @Peter S, saying Superski has like 1000kms open pre Christmas when there's still scares elsewhere as to whether the snow will come
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@DCG, Gornergrat is 3100 meters. Not exposed???
I remember going down from Gornergrat to the village, during Christmas-week on a bleak day. Never had so much pain on my cheeks. |
It's all relative and i did say "not particularly exposed"
In the 10 or so trips I've had to Zermatt I've only experienced 1 day when the lifts were completely closed and i've had very many superb days with fantastic snow - even in early December.
But as BobinCH says, make sure you have the right kit. No need to get cold cheeks if you have a buff or mask in your backpack
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You know it makes sense.
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@DCG, a backpack? Yikes! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thank you very much everyone for the input. It’s really appreciated.
I assumed that because of the height that snow there would be more reliable than most places in the Alps.
We’re thinking the weekend of the 9th December for 3-4 days.
@peter s, you mention it can be expensive to reach some of the slopes? Do you mind me asking how so? Does the ski pass (roughly €50 a day) not cover all slopes?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I was thinking in terms of getting there by train and then the day ticket cost which I think is quite expensive in Zermatt.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The first time I went to Zermatt, it was for a weekend.
Stopped the Friday night in Zurich and caught the train set there at 5am ish Saturday, and got there at noon. Walked to the lift office in the rain and asked for a two day ticket to Cervinia.
The guy selling tickets said, "dont bother just go and have a nice pasta and a bottle of wine, the weather is too bad".
We looked a bit crest fallen, so he said, "how long are you staying?"
We told him just the two days...
He then sold us the tickets and we were off on the daftest crazyest ski weekend ever.
Fabulous weather when we got over to Cervinia.
A great weekend of skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I checked online and it says 3.30 from Zurich airport by train. Certainly anything longer wouldn’t be worth it
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| vinf wrote: |
Thank you very much everyone for the input. It’s really appreciated.
I assumed that because of the height that snow there would be more reliable than most places in the Alps.
We’re thinking the weekend of the 9th December for 3-4 days.
@peter s, you mention it can be expensive to reach some of the slopes? Do you mind me asking how so? Does the ski pass (roughly €50 a day) not cover all slopes? |
That early choose Zermatt. The lift pass does cover all the lifts. A more expensive pass if you want to go over to Cervinia.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm considering a similar trip with almost identical dates and I've narrowed it down to Arabba or Cervinia, so pretty much the same options.
I've been skiing 4 times around the same dates, once to Corvara, once to Cervinia and twice to Tignes.
I've had one week in Tignes/val disere with great conditions, One long weekend in Tignes with sub par conditions, one week in Cervinia with poor conditions, and a week in Corvara with incredible snow and a huge linked area open.
Corvara was the best, by some margin, despite being much lower than the others.
Luck obviously plays a huge part, but my experience has been that a combination of sheltered tree lined slopes, unrivaled snow making utilising cold nights, and lighter wind, make the Dolomites a great early season option. However, there's a higher risk of skiing (100s of kms) of white ribbons of man made snow in a brown landscape than in Zermatt- Cervinia.
If I go ahead with this trip I'll probably use the price/quality ratio of the available accommodation as a tie breaker.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| vinf wrote: |
| I checked online and it says 3.30 from Zurich airport by train. Certainly anything longer wouldn’t be worth it |
If you do this, then buy a Saver day pass train ticket. Valid for any train on the route you want for one day only (so acts as insurance against a delayed flight causing you to miss the train you were planning on getting). These go on sale 2 months before travel date and give serious savings so well worth it. You need to buy early as availability reduces over time and they may be withdrawn from sale at any point.
NB watch out for the default option on SBB website that assumes you have a half price travelcard - just remove that to opt to pay full price.
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Thanks for all the feedback everyone, it's really helpful
@lapalma If we had longer then Dolomiti may be an option again but by car it takes roughly 4 and a bit hours from Milan and the flight times means we'd miss another days skiing on the way home. I haven;t been to Zermatt and the views etc look amazing. Dolomiti is by far the most picturesque I've been to and hoping Zermatt may be similar. Was close to booking Cervinia 3 years ago but was advised that it's very barren and the link to Zermatt can often be closed due to the weather conditions.
@DCG, I have seen it said that the train can be up to €200, but even now on the official Swiss website, tickets from Zurich airport to Zermatt are roughly €39. Do you know if this can fluctuate much?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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This link might help?
https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/buying-options/saving.html
I love the Swiss trains but the system isn’t the most intuitive for non Swiss. SBB starts from the assumption you have a half fare card, which most Swiss do, an annual pass that gives half fare on most train tickets. This isn’t worth getting for a visitor/short trips.
So the far for you in second class will be (roughly) 59 francs or so NOT the headline 29 francs.
As has been said, they go on sale about 60 days out. Buy a ticket for travel to Zermatt, wait 3 days(or however long your trip is) and buy the return ticket. They don’t tend to sell out but do increase in price considerably the closer you get to travel. You can buy the tickets on the SBB app, just remember to tick the ‘No discount card’ box before you buy!
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Thank you all for the great advice.
Will book the flight and accom this weekend. Seems like they’ve had snow there the beginning of December for the past 10 years. Hoping that holds true
Anyone have any recommendations? Is it worth going to the Italian side? Bars restaurants etc?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@vinf, what about flying to Venice then going to cortina? There is the cortina express and for only 3 days cortina is good. I’d not go there for longer myself mind you. But I did do this for a few years before the SH BB in Arabba.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| vinf wrote: |
Thank you all for the great advice.
Will book the flight and accom this weekend. Seems like they’ve had snow there the beginning of December for the past 10 years. Hoping that holds true
Anyone have any recommendations? Is it worth going to the Italian side? Bars restaurants etc? |
Heaps of recommendations. The early season can be a bit 'hit and miss. That said, we always do an early season weekend and then a week in Feb.
Usually Sunnegga, Rothorn, Gornergrat and Klein and Trock areas will be open for the first weekend. Runs to town can be a bit sketchy so they sometimes hold back on opening those.
Restaurants wise - try Findherhof, Zum See, Adler Hitta and Fluhalp.
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Thanks @run28 It sounds like there's lots of skiing to be had so at that time of year. It'll only be 3 days so that sounds more than enough judging by the maps I've looked at
@GlasgowCyclops Thank you, that was the first thing we looked at but the lights don't really work unfortunately. Have you been to Cortina and if so how does it compare to the other side Ortisi, Val Gardena etc?
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You know it makes sense.
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Definitely worth going to the Italian side for long cruisey blues and reds. Can get some nice Italian food too.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was going to do all of that. I had it all booked up and my return flight was cancelled so the TO cancelled the package deal with like 2 days to go.
I had booked up all transfers, parking etc. I had it all worked out.
I personally wouldn't book up train tickets unless I was at the station, or get a ticket that will be refundable, I got the SBB saver ticket which had some flexibililty in the time of train I caught if there were any delays, but when my holiday was cancelled, I got back nothing for a return train ticket from the Airport to Zermatt. So I paid for a return seat for the invisible man.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| 58ski wrote: |
I was going to do all of that. I had it all booked up and my return flight was cancelled so the TO cancelled the package deal with like 2 days to go.
I had booked up all transfers, parking etc. I had it all worked out.
I personally wouldn't book up train tickets unless I was at the station, or get a ticket that will be refundable, I got the SBB saver ticket which had some flexibililty in the time of train I caught if there were any delays, but when my holiday was cancelled, I got back nothing for a return train ticket from the Airport to Zermatt. So I paid for a return seat for the invisible man. |
Charge the TO for the train ticket. Or use travel insurance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| vinf wrote: |
Anyone have any recommendations? Is it worth going to the Italian side? Bars restaurants etc? |
The Sunnegga funi is the fastest way up the mountain and my personal view is its best to find accom close to it. From the top of there you can zigzag your way over to Gornergrat and Klein Matterhorn or just get the bus to the Klein Matterhorn base station if that's your destination for the day.
The traain going up Gornergrat is slower but spectacular so may be worth doing once. If so get seats in the front and get the fast non stop train to the top.
Lots of greaat skiing everywhere but make sure you go on the Furgstattel chair from Trockener Steg. It was the first chair to be built on a glacier (not sure if it's still the only one) and the skiing off the top is great particularly if you bypass Trockener Steg and go all the way down to Furg.
Chalet Etoile on the Italian side is another great lunch stop
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To go back a bit..... chamonix is definitely one of the most accessible places for such a short trip. There's plenty of not-too-challenging skiing available at Les Houches and Le Tour. I've skied both and they're definitely more nervous-skier friendly than Brevent-Flegere. Someone who knows Chamonix better than I do could advise on snow in December - that's the tricky bit, really. Dolomites are gorgeous and fine if it's cold enough to blow snow.....but that's not guaranteed. Obviously the higher altitude places (with all their other drawbacks, like further away and more chance of being blown off the mountain and lifts closing) are more reliable for snow that early.
Might it be possible to book flights and leave destination options open (obviously within limits of accessibility from that airport)?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| vinf wrote: |
Thanks @run28 It sounds like there's lots of skiing to be had so at that time of year. It'll only be 3 days so that sounds more than enough judging by the maps I've looked at
@GlasgowCyclops Thank you, that was the first thing we looked at but the lights don't really work unfortunately. Have you been to Cortina and if so how does it compare to the other side Ortisi, Val Gardena etc? |
THe steeper parts of Cortina tend to be wide and quite quiet compared to the Sella Ronda but I've only been to Cortina 3x for a short break and another 4x on day trips. I stayed in Vill Argentina (Ski out-in) but this is only suitable with a car.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Waste of cash going for 3 days.
Book a week or two.
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