My daughter wants new skis. Her current skis she finds too soft and lacking in grip at speed. On a school ski trip this year, after outskiing the skis she was originally given, she was handed some Volkl Racetiger GS skis and loved them. She wasn't sure if they were the retail or FIS version, but it seems more likely they were the retail version to me.
FIS racetigers are freely available in good condition secondhand for a reasonable price and I was wondering if, in a shorter length (say between her chin and the tip of her nose), they would make a passable piste ski for her? She's 5 foot 5 inches and so around a 156cm (which would come with a 17m turn radius in the case of the FIS Racetiger GS) would be her normal ski size. She used to be a competitive gymnast and very physically fit but has morphed into a teenager who sits in her room and does bug all. She's skied since she was 4 and is a relaxed and confident skier.
Would a shorter length set of FIS GS skis be too much hard work to enjoy as a recreational ski? I've no experience at all of FIS skis myself so cannot advise her, but she was full of enthusiasm for the ones she used on the school trip, and her enjoyment means more to me than picking precisely the 'right' ski. Obviously if they're going to knacker her out after the first day that wouldn't be much help either. Any and all thoughts much appreciated.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@greengriff, Weight is the most important factor when choosing race GS skis.
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Thanks. What about for non-race use though where you're only occasionally going balls out? Would the turn radius be more important that skier weight in this case?
I wouldn't think so ... radius will be an influence, obvs. Mine were all a few years older but I've just really liked them (2 x 185cms, 1 x 192cms (bought from a very burly bloke)). I'm ~60kgs on a good day.
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A 156cm race GS ski is designed for an U14 or big U12 kid.
Racetigers are a popular hire ski around here, so it's possible that the second hand ones you are seeing have been down this road, if that bothers you at all. I don't know if the rental version and the retail version are identical, but if they are it's likely your daughter had the rental ones anyway so it may not matter.
I haven't skied them so can't say how tiring they are – if she has the power to make them work, then they should be ok as long as she stays in reasonable shape because she will need some stamina, but you'd probably be better asking her how she felt after skiing them a few days on her trip.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Or, what about the Racetiger SL or something else in the range with a shorter turn radius, if you're worried about that.
After all it is free
After all it is free
She likes to make long turns rather than short ones, so I thought the GS would be a better bet.
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under a new name wrote:
I wouldn't think so ... radius will be an influence, obvs. Mine were all a few years older but I've just really liked them (2 x 185cms, 1 x 192cms (bought from a very burly bloke)). I'm ~60kgs on a good day.
Oh ok. So your height does not factor into things?
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@greengriff, What does she weigh, and how old?
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rjs wrote:
@greengriff, What does she weigh, and how old?
53kg and she's 14. I think she's pretty much finished growing.
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I would have thought that the place for FIS Skis, is on the race course. There has to be good alternatives that would give more versatility, yet still have high performance.
I suspect @rjs is best placed to give advice on this.
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I'm open to suggestions for a high performance ladies'/girls' ski, but because she'd had a good experience with the Racetigers I assumed that they would be a safer bet.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
greengriff wrote:
I'm open to suggestions for a high performance ladies'/girls' ski, but because she'd had a good experience with the Racetigers I assumed that they would be a safer bet.
It's definitely a good place to start....and I suspect they were not the FIS version, making them suitable. Rossignol also do a large range of Performance skis under their Hero Elite range, with Ti and Ca versions - the Multi Turn would be the most versatile. They also had a "Plus" version, which also gave a bit of extra versatility.
I do not know how suitable they would be....so trying them would seem advisable.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
greengriff wrote:
Oh ok. So your height does not factor into things?
How would the skis know how tall you are? sizing skis by height is a convenient heuristic for over-pressed ski techs in busy ski shops.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
the place for FIS Skis, is on the race course
Not only. Although if you can navigate the maze of most manufacturers not-quite-race-but-nearly skis you probably can find something more suitable.
Volkl used to be pretty easy to determine, retail race but non-FIS GS skis were mostly red, very detuned GS were mostly orange. Not sure it's quite so easy now. (And I can't recall what very detuned slalom were, green?).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
under a new name wrote:
Quote:
the place for FIS Skis, is on the race course
Not only. Although if you can navigate the maze of most manufacturers not-quite-race-but-nearly skis you probably can find something more suitable.
Volkl used to be pretty easy to determine, retail race but non-FIS GS skis were mostly red, very detuned GS were mostly orange. Not sure it's quite so easy now. (And I can't recall what very detuned slalom were, green?).
I should have qualified the statement with - unless you are a genuinely Expert Skier, preferably with race training (and own something more versatile as well)....so know what you are getting and how to use it. FIS skis come in fixed lengths, so don't allow choosing the length that suits.
Most mere mortals don't get near to outskiing the Performance / Race range offered by the likes of Volkl, Dynastar, Rossignol, Fischer, Atomic and Nordica....in fact most will benefit from the skis being a bit more forgiving and versatile.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name wrote:
greengriff wrote:
Oh ok. So your height does not factor into things?
How would the skis know how tall you are? sizing skis by height is a convenient heuristic for over-pressed ski techs in busy ski shops.
Oh. I don't actually know! But I always assumed it was about your centre of gravity and the leverage it would place on the ski. I.e. a a tall slim 200cm guy weighing 90kg is going to have a very different weight distribution than a short stocky 170cm guy weighing 90kg and I assumed that mattered?
Growing up my son has always used GS skis for all his skiing, except when he's training with specific coaches in a certain discipline. eg. race, moguls or freestyle.
So he'll end up doing short & long turns, bumps, crappy off-piste, powder and everything else found on the mountain on GS skis. He tends to use the pair that he raced on the previous season and has grown out of, for free skiing the following season. So to give you an idea Greengriff he will be skiing a 165 GS ski this year for his all round skiing and he weighs just under 40kgs and is almost 5ft. Obviously these are not FIS skis, as they would have to be 188cm for men, but just standard kids race skis.
@greengriff, I think if you run the calcs it really doesn't matter very much.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@greengriff, thinking about it, she’d probably get more fun out of something like a Blizzard BrahmaVolkl Kendo or the pink equivalents.? Worth trying out first?
After all it is free
After all it is free
@under a new name, Maybe. A lot depends on what the shops local to wherever we end up going have in stock in the way of performance skis for girls. This year it was not a lot! If anyone has any suggestions for ladies' skis that like to go fast and have absolutely iron grip (she does not like skidding turns) then I'd happily hear them. But I was hoping to make my own life easier and be told that the Racetigers she liked were ideal
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greengriff wrote:
But I was hoping to make my own life easier and be told that the Racetigers she liked were ideal
They may very well be - and have the advantage that she has skied them and liked them....provided you can get the ones similar to what she tried.
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As a Volkl veteran since my first pair of Renntigers in the 1980s (basically detuned GS skis) - and a devotee of GS style skiing on Dolomite Hardpack ever since, here are my thoughts.
Take a careful look at Inside Out Skiing's "What's my level?" videos. If her technique ON piste is something like level 10 (at least a 9) think about Deacon 76, or Deacon 72 for slightly shorter turns. Even if she matches the style of level 11, she won't outski them. Probably go for nose to head height.
With ski selection, however, it's crucial to be careful and honest about assessing ability, technique and attitude.
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@Skeet, Those videos were helpful, thanks. I would say she looks more fluid than the guys in the level 9 video on piste, but her off-piste is pretty much non-existent as she's shown no interest in it. Is the Deacon a unisex ski?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I don’t think the Deacon requires L10. Isn’t there a pink version?
Skis don’t know what bits you have.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:
Skis don’t know what bits you have.
They do however react to your weight, strength and centre of gravity.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Old Fartbag, so why would a girl of the same weight and similar build (they exist) to me need a "girls" ski?
I find alot of it is marketing, plus, heavy for'ard is often compensated by a heavy rear'ard
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@under a new name, Leg strength? I'd imagine that an average 60kg man could bear more forces through his legs than an average 60kg woman. Whether that factors into recreational ski design I have no idea though.
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Poster: A snowHead
under a new name wrote:
@Old Fartbag, so why would a girl of the same weight and similar build (they exist) to me need a "girls" ski?
I find alot of it is marketing, plus, heavy for'ard is often compensated by a heavy rear'ard
Centre of Gravity is likely different. Generally the CoG for Females is lower and further back - which can make it more difficult to get forward. This is why the bindings of women's' skis are usually mounted more forward.
Also, even if a girl was the same weight and similar build, in general, they won't have the same level of testosterone and thus less strength/muscle. There are of course exceptions.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I have skied on Racetiger GS (not FIS) for the last 5 years, I bought some Deacon 76s but they delaminated so were replaced at the end on last season with Deacon 74. The Racetiger I always had slightly on the short side as I was using them for teaching as well and I've always has the idea that it is easier / more comfortable to make a long turn ski turn short than to make a short turn ski turn long. Racetigers have superb edge grip on very hard snow but are quite stiff and require a but more manual input when it is soft (I found them horrible on slush). As I'm not quite as young as I used to be I thought I would try the Deacons as a couple of my colleagues spoke highly of them, they are also the ski that the owners of the local shop ( one has top level Austrian qualifications, her husband is an ex world champion) use. I find the Deacon is a very versatile piste ski, much better than the Racetiger when it is soft although if it was a really icy day I would take the Racetiger.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@greengriff, you try telling that to my wife or her sister.
Or really any sporty girl. I get that blokes do get more muscle strength, etc. @Old Fartbag, I truly do, but at a recreational level I'd bet anything that attitude and technique (and training/fitness) make more difference.
Why would "females" have a CoM significantly lower and backwards from the point of view of a ski? I really don't think skis are that sensitive.(Skiers are. Well, I am.) They're a slightly blunt instrument. E.g. at the highest (alpine) levels, most athletes run at the same (nominal) lengths.
@Chris_n, isn't that what they're kind of aimed at?
P.S. on wimmin's skis and boots, was having a chat* with some very well reputed ski shop owners about a particular ski model and asked the difference. "Well," came the answer, " the women's ski is marketed more softly, as many girls don't like the macho/testosterone pitches of the men's ski"
"And for the skis boots?", I followed up,
"haha, that's really easy."
"How so?"
"Furry cuffs".
* true story
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:
Or really any sporty girl. I get that blokes do get more muscle strength, etc. @Old Fartbag, I truly do, but at a recreational level I'd bet anything that attitude and technique (and training/fitness) make more difference.
Why would "females" have a CoM significantly lower and backwards from the point of view of a ski? I really don't think skis are that sensitive.(Skiers are. Well, I am.) They're a slightly blunt instrument. E.g. at the highest (alpine) levels, most athletes run at the same (nominal) lengths.
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