 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi to the people experienced with winter driving in Austria,
I'm just getting some Cross Climate 2's fitted onto my Discovery Sport ready for a trip to St Anton next winter.
Would it be necessary to also get chains/socks? I think legally it's not required in Austria if I have approved winter tyres so will they be sufficient? Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Pyramus, there are some places that also require chains to be carried, I think. Depends where you are going...e.g. if your accommodation is up a steep hill. In normal circumstances you probably wouldn't need chains
..but what if you did?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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January 2019 we had our chains on and off loads of times in Austria. Winter tyres and 4WD all there but a couple of places we stayed were well up steep hills and chains were essential.
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| Pamski wrote: |
| January 2019 we had our chains on and off loads of times in Austria. Winter tyres and 4WD all there but a couple of places we stayed were well up steep hills and chains were essential. |
if the roads have ice on them or certain kinds of snow then you'll certainly need chains. Heavier vehicles like the Disco can be a handful in slippery conditions.
I don't have chains for my current car but that also means there are certain places locally I can't get to in the winter or have to park further down the hill. I've also had to spend half an hour shovelling when I've got stuck and I've been in some quite hairy situations doing a U turn where chains would have helped.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Pyramus, They need to be M&S marked and have the mountain symbol. You won't likely need chains for access into St Anton, it's straight off the motorway
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Markymark29, The M&S mark is not relevant to winter driving. It was never acceptable in lieu of the mountain symbol by those countries with such rules anyway and on its own is no indication at all of winter driving capabilities.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
... The M&S mark is not relevant to winter driving.
It was never acceptable in lieu of the mountain symbol by those countries with such rules anyway and on its own is no indication at all of winter driving capabilities. |
Not true in Canada.
But presumably you'd not just make something like that up? Let's see...
The Austrian government says you're wrong for Austria too:
| https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/ wrote: |
For a tyre to qualify as a winter tyre, it must carry the labels "M+S", "M.S." or "M&S", or a snowflake symbol (which may appear with or without the other labels).
Accordingly, all-weather and all-year-round tyres are only suitable for use as winter tyres if they carry one of these labels. |
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pyramus in general snow chains are not required. In over 20 years of driving around the Austrian alps (with many trips to the Arlberg including during the 2019 snowmaggedon event) I have never needed to use chains. There are a few places where they might be needed. An example would be the road from Stuben to Lech (Flexenpass) where for a few snowy days each year chains are required (usually for 4x4 vehicles downhill only, non 4x4 both directions). For travel to St Anton you can avoid this simply by using the tunnel rather than going via St Christoph (not many days when this would be required, the tunnel is quite expensive). They would not be needed to drive around St Anton. If you decide to head up a farmer's track that might be a bit different.
You can find details of any roads that are other closed or require chains at https://www.oeamtc.at/verkehrsservice/ (assuming you can cope with the German).
Michelin Cross Climate 2 tyres meet the specification for winter tyres, they are not that popular around here as the tyres last longer if changed over autumn & spring and over a typical three year life of a car it works out cheaper to have two sets of tyres (though not by much 4 or 5 years definitely is cheaper, I suspect it costs a lot less to change & store them than in the UK where it is unusual)
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@phil_w, TBF the Canadian one isn't clear that it's an 'or', as the pic shows both labels together, which is not unusual. The Austrian one does seem to contradict what I said, yes. I was basing it on French rules, and the fact that _some_ M&S - only tyres of my own experience are completely crap as winter tyres.
Do such things still exist anyway? Tyres with the M&S mark but no mountain symbol? Mine were on the LR Defender when I bought it and were also labelled "Light Truck", but looked like they had been on it for years. If they do then it would strongly imply that they're not suitable for winter use, so best avoided in this context.
Edit: May not be relevant, but the Austrian site also talks about the snowflake, which has now been replaced/superceded by the Mountain symbol, so it's possible that it's not completely up to date. And other sources state quite clearly that BC requires the mountain symbol referred to as "3PMS" as well as the M&S mark.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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You can get snow chains on Amazon for £29. It's really a no-brainer if you're bringing your own car.
Note: if you have a fancy SUV then normal chains might not fit and you may have to pay a bit more. Check on https://www.roofbox.co.uk/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| HilbertSpace wrote: |
You can get snow chains on Amazon for £29. It's really a no-brainer if you're bringing your own car.
Note: if you have a fancy SUV then normal chains might not fit and you may have to pay a bit more. Check on https://www.roofbox.co.uk/ |
Cheapest chains I see on Roofbox are £335 for my vehicle...think I might "take the risk" 
I'm staying at resort level near St Anton, not up a massive hill..
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@Pyramus, If you are staying in the village the chances of needing chains are very small indeed. Access is via dual carriage way roads whether from west or east, the Austrians are very efficient at keeping the roads clear, I am sure someone will be along with a story of how they hit a massive snowstorm but in reality it is not an issue. All the folk I know around here who go skiing every year (village ski club) dont bother with chains unless they are off to some remote hut or other. You might find an issue if you were planning to drive over to Lech but far easier to use skis / buses / taxis than messing about with chains
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You know it makes sense.
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@munich_irish thanks that is useful. To be more accurate, we are actually staying in Schnann slightly further down the valley from St Anton - but I think the same applies to what you said, access is still not far off the main dual carriageway. And I will ski-bus into St Anton when I'm there. No plans to drive further other than to get to Schnann and into St Anton sometimes (although will mostly use ski bus). Definitely no plans to drive to Lech etc.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Chaletbeauroc, Oh really......i've been wasting my money on proper winters for many years, and been stupidly safe then.....
@Pyramus, No need for chains in Schnann, but as a precaution 'd always have some with you, and just as importantly know how to fit them. I've used them a lot in Lech/ warth and Bregenzerwald but never in St Anton
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've driven to ST Anton maybe 10 times in the last 20 years, have hardly ever had chains, but on a couple of occasions they could have been useful.
1. Heavy dump of snow before and during arrival. On the road up to the Arlberg tunnel from Zurich, police were enforcing chains on HGVs, but not cars. In St Anton, the accommodation was up a steep section of road, which was OK with a run up, except that it took about 4 gos before there were no pedestrians moving away from the road up, and into the drive I was trying to turn into. That said, it was still quicker than putting chains on
2. Heavy dump of snow whilst in St Anton, and was parked at the bottom of a steep drive. Borrowed some chains from another guest to get out.
I seem to recall one occasion when the Arlberg tunnel was shut, so we had to go over the Arlberg pass to get to St Anton, but the road was reasonably clear
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
@Chaletbeauroc, Oh really......i've been wasting my money on proper winters for many years, and been stupidly safe then.....
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Not sure what you thought I was saying, but "proper winters" is what we have had on all vehicles since we've been living in FR/CH.
The LR's M&S ones were terrible in cold conditions and were swapped out for some of these which are proper 3PMS marked, but I leave them on all year.
(BTW that's my landie in the link, if anyone's interested).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We’ve got a Disco Sport, and prior to that had a Freelander II. We live in an alpine village with a fairly steep drive plus do a lot of driving up to ski resorts and take some steep mountain tracks - never needed chains, but we do have Winter Tires. We do, however, carry chains during the Winter months. It’s not worth the very occasional potential need not to have them - especially having seen how many vehicles have come a cropper!
Anecdotally, from when we were looking to change our car, a great many vehicles in our search bracket (4x4’s) had All Season M&S (with mountain symbol) tires.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| HilbertSpace wrote: |
You can get snow chains on Amazon for £29. It's really a no-brainer if you're bringing your own car.
Note: if you have a fancy SUV then normal chains might not fit and you may have to pay a bit more. Check on https://www.roofbox.co.uk/ |
Cheapest chains I see on Roofbox are £335 for my vehicle...think I might "take the risk"
I'm staying at resort level near St Anton, not up a massive hill.. |
what tires has your Landrover? e.g. for 235/65/R18 someone can find chains with les from 100 Euro
Btw i dont think you will need snowchains.
From 2007 till today i always drive with the car in AUT (and not only) and i needed only twice... i think it was once in 2018 and this winter once again...
2018 was in 1650m but this winter i needed them for the last 400m heading to Berwang (around 1.300m elevation).
So, 99% you will not need them ... i suppose you have 4WD and with snow tires will be ok.
But better safe than sorry
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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El Nino winter next season, could be big dumps....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Pyramus wrote: |
| HilbertSpace wrote: |
You can get snow chains on Amazon for £29. It's really a no-brainer if you're bringing your own car.
Note: if you have a fancy SUV then normal chains might not fit and you may have to pay a bit more. Check on https://www.roofbox.co.uk/ |
Cheapest chains I see on Roofbox are £335 for my vehicle...think I might "take the risk"
I'm staying at resort level near St Anton, not up a massive hill.. |
Just keep an eye on eBay. I’ve now picked up 3 sets of Thule/Konig k-summits all brand new for around £100 each.
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Just like to point out that proximity to a cleared road (motorway or other) doesn't preclude the use of chains. The last time I HAD to use chains was to get out of a carpark in Argentiere. The road was clear 50 m lower down.
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I would put the chains on, a lot safer!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Pyramus, ….for our Yeti, the manual says ‘you can’t use chains’. We know that you CAN use them but only if they have clearance, and they are fine on the back wheels.
Do I carry chains?
Yes. When asked by the Police I can point to having them. This is A Good Thing.
Have I ever used them?
No. Winters and 4WD has always been enough, even on blue ice going up the last 50m to Nax car park.
Should I have had them on and haven’t?
Once. I parked outside our garages on compacted snow on a very mild slope…pulled on the handbrake, started to get out of the car and noticed that the car was sliding. Slowly. On all four wheels. On winter tyres. Gulp. Got back in, drove it back onto the road, then up the steep incline straight into the garage. Phew.
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Quick trip up to Anything technical last week to discuss options on skis and bindings for next year.
For those tourers out there who thing the "frame binding" is dying, think again.
I counted 7 sets of new Atomics with Fritschi bindings in the workshop, " off to Antarctica shortly"
I smiled and thought there are still folk who know........
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Rogerdodger, Yes, but what tyres were you using?
(Wrong thread, perhaps?).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Chaletbeauroc, the correct ones always......
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