 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello,
Looking for some advice on tech binding safety. At the end of January I had an accident and broke my tibia and fibula, both displaced  I was on touring skis with Plum Guide tech bindings. One ski got stuck in the snow and as I twisted, it didn't release.
I've since been reading about tech bindings and tibia fractures seem very common. I'm clearly not skiing again this winter, but I'm starting to wonder if I would ever feel comfortable skiing on these skis with these bindings again. Am I being unfair, and this is just an unlucky accident? Or are tech bindings just dangerous.. I've been wondering about selling my touring setup and getting something with Shift bindings, even though they will be much heavier. As far as I can tell, Shift are the only seriously different touring binding design for safety?
Final question - my skis were ex-demo, and my boot only just fits in with the heel-piece of the binding moved as far back as it will go. I know there is supposed to be a 4mm gap between the heel-piece and the boot.. mine is probably more like 2mm or 3mm. The ski shop say this isn't a problem and 2mm/3mm is enough, but is there any chance this slightly too small gap also stops the binding releasing safely?
Thanks for any advice.. and safe ski to everyone!
Jack
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@jackus, by definition, on the whole, tech bindings aren't going to release as easily as alpines. So it's not an unfair comment, just a bit hmmm, not sure quite what it is. Declaration of the obvious?
Tech's aren't "dangerous" as such, surely, just different. Unless the shop told you you'd be just as safe as in your alpines.
Marker have a new version (well, this week's the first time I've seen it) of the PT where the alpine toe detaches. Although you still need to carry it with you. Apparently to compete directly with the Shifts.
Good luck with the recovery!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting thread...
1) Tech binding release at heel (making a broken leg more probable)
2) Alpine bindings release at the toe (making an ACL rupture more probable)
Are tech binding dangerous ? Not necessarily if aware of their limitations... However they do they release in a different manner to alpine binding. For this reason I tend not to ski them hard in resort.
Also : dont ski dynafits with your toes locked out.
That is equivalent to DIN20+ 
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 21-03-23 19:17; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Haggis_Trap,
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For this reason I tend not to ski them hard in resort.
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Well, quite!! (Says he, as though he knows a lot about this, which after only 4 seasons with tech bindings, he clearly doesn't.  )
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd echo what Haggis and UANN have said. It's the slow falls that screw you up: that's when I've done the most tweaking. I think reducing the heel gap will make the ski feel a bit harsher as it bottoms out more often and it may even hasten a release rather than prevent it if you're going full send. The Fritschi Tecton is also a full-DIN certified pin binding and is somewhat lighter than the shift (and has a better touring mode IMV).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thank you, really helpful.
I think it's what I always knew but had maybe put to the back of my mind after having no problems before - that the tech binding wouldn't release as easily - but after the accident I've been trying to imagine skiing with those bindings again and if I'd feel comfortable or confident and doubting it.. it was a pretty traumatic experience!
It was actually quite a slow, twisty fall @Sharkymark, so makes sense. Thanks for the recommendation on Fritschi Tecton and @under a new name, I hadn't seen the new Marker binding so might have a look at that too. Thanks.
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@jackus, no worries. I don't see it on their site so unless I'm mistaking it for the existing "PT" ... anyhoo bro in law had a demo rig in his shop the other day.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @jackus, no worries. I don't see it on their site so unless I'm mistaking it for the existing "PT" ... anyhoo bro in law had a demo rig in his shop the other day. |
Yeah, I just Googled and only see PT but that does seem to also have a detachable alpine toe. Is it a shop in Chamonix? I also live here so could pop by to look 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@jackus, Concept Pro, behind the Aiguille base station if you didn't know 
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I know it well! Thanks, I'll go in next time I'm nearby
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@jackus, sorry to hear about your injury but don't let it put you off tech bindings. On your type of accident you're likely to get injured whatever binding you were in.
BTW, the Marker Duke PT was launched in the 20/21 season. It's a competitor to the Shift but heavier and dearer. Neither the Shift nor the PT are out'n'out touring bindings as they're waaaay too heavy.
The Plum Guide is a Dynafit Speed rip-off from when the Dynafit patents lapsed but tech bindings have moved on a lot since then. The Tecton has an adjustable lateral release at the toe with an alpine style heel but it's still over 600g per ski and, as Haggis_Trap says, you're swapping a bit of extra fib/fib protection for less ACL/MCL protection - and knee injuries outweigh fractures by a huge margin.
The new 22/23 ATK Evo tech bindings have an adjustable lateral release at the toe and independent lateral/vertical release at the heel and weigh in at well under 400g per ski: https://www.thepisteoffice.com/index.php/com-virtuemart/com-virtuemart-menu-categories/the-piste-office-store/alpine-touring-bindings/atk-bindings/raider-13-evo-fsp-detail
And the shop that sold you that a 2-3mm heel gap is ok on your binding should be avoided at all costs. You're damned lucky that you've not pre-released/been punched out of the toe toe binding before now if the ski was heavily flexed.
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@spyderjon, Jon, side question if I may, I have Dynafit Speed Turns on my touring skis, and in an unrelated incident on my alpines blew my ACL a few weeks ago, recon scheduled next Wednesday
So question, big difference in state of the art bindings now, worth me changing? I'll be very diligent with my rehab but I don't want to add unnecessary/sensibly avoidable risk ...
Thanks.
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name, thank you, that makes sense - sounds like not quite what I'm looking for weight-wise, then, I was already worried the Shift was going to be too much.
@spyderjon, thank you, this is very helpful. Those ATK bindings sound like they're giving all the safety features of toe and heel release.. is there a drawback? They're way lighter than other options which release both?
And yes, I was pretty dubious that just accepting a too-small heel gap was fine. I haven't been pre-released but can understand the mechanics of why that's the risk. Thanks again for the thoughts.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I also broke my tibia and fibula in Italy at the beginning of March, I think I’m a reasonably good skier, ski 3 or 4 weeks a season, a silly fall on an easy blue, not going fast, a small dusting of new snow, I put it down to just losing concentration for a brief moment, I haven’t fallen in at least 8 years.
So, after reading this post I’ve checked my bindings, the din is set to 7, I’m 5’8”, 73 kg. Both skis came off, but obviously the damage had been done.
Could the din setting be too high? I’ve always just handed my skis into a shop and relied on their expertise to check the bindings and do the service.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sealey, Google “DIN chart” and have a look for yourself. You need to know your age, height/weight, your boot sole length and how good a skier you are. 7 is not particularly high, but it still might be higher than what you can get away with. For example, I went to a ski test recently. Some stands just asked me what the numbers were, others wanted me to complete a form so they could calculate it themselves, tell me it was 7, and have me correct them to 5.5. My skis don't release when they shouldn't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I’m 54, sole length 305mm, the Din guides say 5.5 for intermediate, 6.5 for advanced. I’m not trying to blame anyone, just disappointed in myself in not paying enough attention to my equipment.
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