Skiing for years but now planning our first trip to ski/snowboard in Europe. Need your help.

A snowHead

Hello everyone,

We live in the U.S., and have been skiing in Tahoe (Northstar, Squaw/Palisades) and Mammoth, which are closest to us, for years. We have two kids and it has been super convenient to go somewhere reachable by car. By now, kids are comfortable on black runs plus it's getting boring to go the same route a year after year, so we think that next year, instead of buying a season pass and driving to Tahoe and Mammoth every other week, like we always did, we would go on a ski trip to Europe.

I hope you can help me by narrowing down our options, because I have spent a lot of time on this forum and information is just piling up in my head.
Here is what we are looking for (in no particular order):
1) Large enough to ski for five days and not to repeat same runs too often, but not too large for our teenager, who prefers to snowboard in peace alone, to end up in another country.
2) Plenty of intermediate and black runs.
3) Suitable both for skiing and snowboarding
4) Enough snow in the first part of January
5) If several mountains connected, moving between them via lifts/trams, not buses
6) A village with lodging options close enough to walk to the lift.
7) Accessible by train/and bus from a major airport, like Munich, Zurich, etc.
Cool

Not poshy, not very expensive, family oriented, with traditional vibe and traditional food options.
9) Good cell coverage on the mountain to find each other if we get lost
10) Being able to communicate in English (I know Italian just a tiny bit but don't know German)

An extra question: is too much hassle to bring our skis and a snowboard with us? Because we would like to bring our own, if it's not a crazy idea.

I highly appreciate any word of advice. And if you have questions about skiing in California, I'll be happy to share what I know.

A snowHead

We are currently in 3 vallees (Val thorens, meribel, Courchevel) using our epic pass which has reciprocal coverage for 7 days (would work if you ski north star, heavenly etc at home). Big area, so wouldn’t get bored (we are used to Vail and whistler and it has been perfect for us), easy transfer from Geneva by bus, and Val thorens is the highest resort, so as snow sure as you can be at the moment. Not as attractive as meribel, but small, easy to walk to lifts, and not too posh. I’ve given up speaking in French as everyone instantly replies in English, so you would be fine. Definitely one to consider. Bring your own skis etc. no problem at all.

Kirsty

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@ketya77, welcome to snowHeads!

As @ksb76 says if you have an Epic (or Ikon) annual pass with some reciprocal coverage in some European resorts that may affect your decision making. The 3 valleys in France which they mentioned is a very large area with more than enough skiing/snowboarding to keep you satisfied. Alternatively if you're not bothered about going to resorts that may be covered on your US annual season pass (if you have any) then some other options would be flying into Munich and getting a train transfer to the Zillertal valley in Austria or flying into Venice and getting a bus transfer to the Sella Ronda in the Italian Dolomites (another huge ski area) with stunning scenery, mountain restaurants with great local food (and Italian coffee and hot chocolate!) and great value. If you fly into Venice you could also add on a day sightseeing there at the start or end of your trip (if that appeals).

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Save money & go to Whistler instead.... or Japan.
Europe is overrated.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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@ketya77, with the Ikon pass then it would have to be Dolomiti - the Sella Ronda as mentioned above. Fantastic area with something for everyone, and very, very beautiful. Very Happy

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After all it is free

@ketya77, @gored is a troll. Ignore it, for your own sanity!

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Just wanted to add:
If to consider places included in the Ikon pass (Zermatt, Chamonix, Kitzbuhel, Dolomiti, and Grandvalira) I wonder which meet more of our criteria than the others. If none of them really meet them, we can skip the pass for the next season.
Also, we will be limited by spending no more than a week, maybe 8 days on the trip, so the longer it'll take for us to get to the destination, with connected flights, trains, buses, the less we'll have to ski.

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Convenience and price might be the battle here - possibly your best bets are St Anton or Kitzbuhel, convenient from Zurich and Munich respectively. Neither are cheap. I found Kitz (or even Kircherg for slightly better value) the more charming!

Italy will be cheaper probably. But Austria is a lot of fun. Very Happy

Edited to add - the area next to Kitzbuhel, the Ski Welt, might be a touch cheaper, and you can get day add ons to Kitz which would give you a massive area to ski. The resorts around there are really well connected, only one 5 min bus between Kitz and Ski Welt.

snow reports

Enough snow in early Jan is a big constraint depending on what you aspire to.

Also depends what you mean by blacks. In Europe these are all groomers ( think something like Zachs at Kirkwood as the extreme) and typical Tahoe blacks would be off piste terrain with all the attendant safety issues. If you're all good with beeps, shovels and probes and making smart decisions you might find the same thing otherwise you may need a guide budget.

In short expect more groomer skiing and/ or ersibal responsibility

You know it makes sense.

Kitz or surroundings, given the train/bus and that the area offers slightly less chance of your son ending up in entirely the wrong valley and having a very expensive taxi home. Laughing

Piste map: https://www.skiresort.info/ski-resort/kitzski-kitzbuehelkirchberg/trail-map/

If you feel you need more, then you can always get a day add on for Ski Welt if you fancy it.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

With the criteria you mention St Anton jumps out as being a great option.
Good size ski area, good train connections, Good black run skiing, plenty of English spoken though an Austrian/International vibe.

I love the Dolomites but they don't have a mass of black runs if that's what the teenagers want.

A snowHead

@ketya77, the only places I know that are covered by your Ikon pass are Zermatt and Chamonix (less well). For most of your criteria I would think the Dolomites or Austria would work well but I wonder about snow coverage in January? Those that know those areas well can maybe help with that. Zermatt meets the snow coverage criteria, is beautiful, has the Matterhorn and oozes charm BUT could never be described as inexpensive although children 9 and under ski for free which not many places offer, and there are reasonable hotels/apartments available. Chamonix is a lovely town but does really require a car to get between the various disconnected ski areas or quite a bit of time on a bus. That bothers some people, others not so much.

A snowHead

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

if you stick in Icon pass then
Kitzbühel is lovely, but if there is enought snow, is a little bit tricky. And is relativ low
Instead of Kitz in Austria is much better St. Anton with the whole arlberg area. However not in Icon pass.

Chamonix is a must in Europe, however the ski areas are not connected each other. There are some nice black slopes but i dont know if it is worth it for someone who comes from outside EU
Zermatt is probably the best option in Icon Pass but is one of the most expensive resorts in Europe....however expensive is subjectiv from person to person

Dolomites Area is one of the most beautifull places for skiing in Europe. There are some black slopes, and the some nice excursions to add to your bucket such as the War tour etc (https://lagazuoi.it/EN/Experience-Winter-page9-The-Great-War-Ski-Tour), and for the kids the Sella Ronda is also a nice challenge.
However if you will go there you have to have in mind that this area is famous for piste skiing and artificial snow. If you want to go outside the slope, powder etc then better St.Anton or somewehere else (keep in mind that the area outside the slopes in Europe is not controlled for avalanches etc as in the USA)

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When we say about Zermatt as expensive, what is more expensive there than, let's say, in Kitzbuhel or Dolomiti? I mean, the ski pass will be free because of the Ikon pass, so it is lodging and food?

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Chamonix and Zermatt are both superb, but mist accommodation is not very convenient, busses needed to lifts

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@ketya77, off the piste isn't avalanche controlled, so it's at your own risk - and better to have all the correct kit and/or a guide. St A and Zermatt - and Kitz I think has a couple - have itineraries which as I understand it are ungroomed but in bounds.

Of course if there isn't enough snow you'll be on piste anyway (there will be snow, but for many of us enough just means good piste conditions!)

Food and lodging more expensive in Zermatt - but it's all relative. Sometimes a really nice half board option can give a much better experience and value - I think Austria excels at this.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

@ketya77, I think it would be helpful if you gave a bit more detail about the sort of slopes you like to ski/board.

To be very clear, in general only the pistes are avalanche controlled in Europe. And that means exactly that, only the actual piste. If you move even 1 meter off the groomed trail (as you should call it) it is defined as off-piste, is not avalanche controlled, and you are responsible for your own safety. That is not to say, however, that we only ski "groomers", Many here, including me, do a huge amount of off-piste. But it does involve having the right equipment (transceiver, avalanche pack, shovel. probe), have the requisite training so you know how to use it (no small thing), and either using a guide or being very knowledgeable on how to judge conditions and routes (an even bigger thing). Off-piste is NOT patrolled, you would be responsible for arranging rescue if something goes wrong. Some areas have "itineraries" that are frequently skied and may (or may not) be avalanche controlled.

Let us know a bit more about what kind of slopes you are all looking for and we can probably give you more insightful answers.

Also if I were you I would put the cultural aspects higher on your list of priorities! You have great skiing close to home, but you can't experience a long lunch in an Italian Refugio for example! Or a Michelin star restaurant on the slopes. And many other aspects. If it is a one-off trip maybe make it as different as possible from what you normally do?

A snowHead

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@ketya77, Both St Anton & Kitzbühel would seem to fit what you want, St Anton sounds a better fit in terms of skiing but Kitzbühel is pretty good too. A highlight of the season in Kitzbühel is the Hahnenkamm ski race which takes place in mid January so maybe that would be the same time as your visit (it does not interfere with recreational skiing). St Anton is probably more reliable for snow (the Arlberg area of which St Anton is part is just about the snowiest part of the alps, it includes Zürs, Lech & Warth all linked by lift). If you are looking for ungroomed runs then St Anton is definitely better. As mentioned above, in Europe, most pistes are groomed, anything outside of the pistes (this includes any powder at the side of the piste) is neither groomed or secured, you are responsible for yourself (though no issue getting rescued if needed). The concept of "in bounds" does not exist, you ski where you wish but the resort is only responsible for pistes (but see below)

St Anton & a number of other resorts have a half way house between piste & off piste called ski routes or itineraries The exact status of these is often unclear and varies from place to place (in terms of marking, avalanche safety etc) but in the Arlberg the status is that the routes are checked & secured along the line of poles marking the route. Most of the routes are ungroomed but some normally are eg Schindlerkar & Langerzug (which claims to be the steepest groomed run in Austria). To me this sounds like what you are looking for. Plenty of Americans around, no issue speaking English. Plenty of snowboarders. A possible downside can be the crowds though that is much less of an issue in mid January (keep away from New Year & high season in February, the second week in January used to be very busy, it is Russian New Year but for obvious reasons no longer an issue!). St Anton is also a big party place which may or may not be of interest to your kids Very Happy

Access is straight forward fly into Zürich, train connection from Zürich to a station in the centre of the village (the main lift is less than 5 minutes walk) road transfer easy too. Accommodation (including apartments) best booked through the tourist office website https://www.stantonamarlberg.com/en/home , they will have zero issues communicating in English (same pretty much everywhere).

The Dolomities are very beautiful have endless piste skiing and great food but off piste / powder is not a strong point and access not so straight forward. Other options might be Verbier or Zermatt (both easy from Geneva or Zürich)

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if you want to stick in Icon pass then if you can afford it , Zermatt. If the ski pass is inclued then you have to find accommodation. ANd i have no idea what is expensive for your standards.
Otherwise between Kitz and Dolomite i vote for the second.
If we are talking outside icon pass, probably Verbier or St. Anton

By the way ... Dolomites Area is a skiing secure area, but not snow secure. Meaning you will with relative high probability find almost 100% of the 1.200 slopes open in January, but beside the slopes could be from 50 cm to 0 cm of snow.

However the aritificial snow system and the grooming in this place is probably the best in EU

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@ketya77, that's a really good clear list of your 'musts and wants' I think. The only thing is I'm not clear what sort of lodging preferences you have, if any. Hotel with food included? Apartment or chalet to yourselves, with or without food? Smaller bed & breakfast type accommodation (Pension, Chambre D'Hote, Garni, Gasthaus, etc).

I'm a fan of all the areas mentioned already (unless you want to save money and stay in Whistler, which isn't really meeting your brief).

If it were me...in January...I'd be heading for the Dolomites, for the all round uniqueness of the place and guaranteed piste snow. My only caveat to that would be if you wanted some really tough pistes (possibly what you N. Americans call double diamond trails?), or plenty of off-piste terrain, to challenge your group, then St Anton, Val D'Isere/Tignes, 3 Valleys, come more to the fore.

Good luck deciding. Only 5 days sliding, when travelling that far? Smile

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@munich_irish, good post, sound information...just one query...

After all it is free

The youth hostel in Zermatt has rooms for 280CHF per night for a 4 person room for Jan 24, I have stayed in the Saas Fee equivalent and it's excellent quality in my opinion. It looks like it is reasonably well located in Zermatt with about a 1000 yard walk to the nearest lift.

https://www.youthhostel.ch/en/hostels/zermatt/

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Help!!

Skiing for years but now planning our first trip to ski/snowboard in Europe. Need your help.

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