Afternoon all.
I have had a couple of ski holidays and a couple of lessons and I’m getting the hang of it. I can parallel on blues, but on some steep reds I do still fall every so often. I’m confident and pretty quick and on recent holiday to Borovets I managed to weave my way down the slopes without taking anyone out or crashing into anyone.
I’ve been for boots fitting - and they say I’ve got a wide foot and high instep so have said the best 2 boots for me are the Atomic Hawx Magna and the Head Edge Lyt. I’ve got to get these online because no retailers near me have my size in stock. My question is should I be going for a 90 or 100 flex…or does it not make much difference at my level of skiing?
Thanks in advance
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What is your weight and height ?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Where did you get your boots fitted and why did you not buy the ones they fitted to you ? Buying boots online is not ideal.
Andy.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Boywonder, Great that you enjoy it all so much. You are at the start of your skiing career, and investing in boots is a good idea. But it is an investment and I would advise you to be considered about it. It is more important to get the right equipment than to do so quickly, and that is unlikely to happen by buying online.
Pick a reputable boot fitter. And be prepared to invest the time and money to travel to one if none are close. Get recommendations here on which fitters are the best.
Book an appointment well in advance for next autumn when they will be fully stocked.
Getting this right can make so much difference to both your enjoyment and performance. So take your time and do it properly.
Oh and consider the trade off between buying equipment and lessons. If you can only afford one then spend the money on lessons, that will pay a much bigger dividend in the long run.
My advice is - as above - Don't buy boots online. If the reason you didn't buy at the Bootfitting is because they didn't have your size, is go back when they do - or buy in resort from a reputable shop.
I suspect that 90 or 100 Flex is too soft - but that can only be accurately assessed by a good Bootfitter.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Can only agree on the above statements - That said, go for the 100 flex considering your size. I am inclined to even advise you to consider a 110-120 flex.
Remember - Flex cannot be compared between brands and different models!
After all it is free
After all it is free
Appreciate the replies folks, thank you.
I went Ellis Brigham and they measured me but they don’t have any of my sizes of those in stock…nationwide. I went to a specialist place at weekend and he just shoved some salmon pro 100’s on and said they would stretch…they fitted terrible…and they were the only boots in my size they had. I appreciate it’s not the best time of year to buy. I can get the Hawx from Decathlon with free returns so can try them on at least and send back if no good.
Just wanted to know how important the flex is - generally speaking as I know different mfrs will have differences.
I’m in South Yorkshire if anyone has any suggestions for places?
Many thanks
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@Boywonder, It is of course entirely up to you if you want to take or ignore the advice you have been given above.
But I really do hope that you choose to delay your boot purchase until you have identified a reputable and recommended boot fitter, and a time of year when they will have a full stock (or time to order a specific boot for you). That time is normally in the early autumn. What is the rush?
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Restless native wrote:
Where did you get your boots fitted and why did you not buy the ones they fitted to you ? Buying boots online is not ideal.
Andy.
I believe this was answered on the OP.
Quote:
I’ve got to get these online because no retailers near me have my size in stock.
Flex ratings are a very rough guide, and more commonly relevant for more advanced skiers who need the boot to transfer maximum force to the ski. Race boots tend to be 130-140, beginner ones start as low as 60, so 90-100 is bang in the middle. At your level you still need a little more forgiveness, so I wouldn't recommend going too stiff. You're relatively short and light so you'll be putting less pressure through on the boot than someone at 6 foot and 15 stone.
IME of teaching, I've much more often seen people struggling because their boots are too stiff than them being too soft. But honestly I wouldn't stress about it, the difference between 90 and 100 may be less than the difference between two different manufacturers' with the same flex rating anyway.
I note that the Head boot has a feature called "Duo Flex", which seems to allow adjustment between 90 and 100, although I can't find the details, but it might be worth investigating.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks Chalet Beauroc
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I would wait a little... Just out of interest how much skiing have you done and where? No disrespect but Borovets and most of the Bulgarian resorts aren't exactly challenging, although I've only been to Pamporovo out of those but could ski the lot in a morning. A week in France, Switzerland or Austria and then work out if you are looking for boots.
But if you've got the time and money investing them will benefit you. As others have said find a fitter near you - whereabouts are you, ah South Yorkshire.. Don't know anywhere near there, but someone on here might. Colin, who's sometimes on here is based in Bicester so fairly central. As always, with boots they choose you rather than you choosing them.. i.e. they may or may not fit your foot shape, etc..
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
"I’m confident and pretty quick and on recent holiday to Borovets I managed to weave my way down the slopes without taking anyone out or crashing into anyone."
Binned it after that little nugget
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
So Blues, Reds, Blacks, Moguls and off-piste?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Well I tried to help.....
Suggesting that lessons might be a better investment and to take his time.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
totally agree with that zikomo!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Agree with a those on here suggesting spend more time and money on lessons not boots. The fact that you say "a couple of lessons" and "I’m confident and pretty quick and on recent holiday to Borovets I managed to weave my way down the slopes without taking anyone out or crashing into anyone" just screams to me to have more lessons, the boots aren't going to be making too much difference right now.
Give it a few weeks of lessons and then think about boots, and go to a proper specialist, not Ellis Brigham or Snow and Rock.
These are the usual candidates for boot fitters up north:
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Boots are, hands down, THE single MOST important piece of hardware, period. Buy ONLY from a COMPETENT brick and mortar ski shop. Patience. And do NOT go TOO stiff. Too many are on too stiff a boot.
Can’t speak for their boot fitting but their general knowledge and customer service is absolutely superb, they’ve given great advice so many times when I’ve asked the dumbest questions to make sure I get the right ski racing products for my son
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Don't get pre-occupied with the flex number, it is not a fine science and just a marketing guide.
As has been said above, don't expect to buy boots online and them fit right out of the box, especially given you have wide/high volume feet. If you do buy online to save a few quid then you need to budget for a good boot fitters time on top of that and of course prices vary.
You have definitely identified two solid options for a wide foot/high volume fit but again echoing what’s been said above, don't rush - try some on next trip in resort where you can benefit from an expert fitter; a service which is likely going to be free when bought there.
Additionally, with more experience under your belt, you are going to know a lot more of what works for you.....flex is only 1 part of the puzzle.
I bought a pair of Head LYT 110s recently and although I'm slightly(!) more than 13st, I’ve skied enough to know they are pretty much perfect for me. I could not be happier having persevered for too long, BUT despite them being a close starting point out of the box, they still needed a couple of heat moulds and a stretch to get them dialled in over a few days and that’s obviously best done in resort when you’re in them for hours at a time
One more thing to note, don't get cheap thick skis socks! Get yourself some decent, thinner socks. Thick socks will only compress the boot lining.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thin compression socks make feet feel warmer because blood flow is better, also stops boots being too tight. You do not need socks for insulation, the boot liner will be extremely efficient.
I used to wear pop socks (knee length tights) when my feet were fatter and these worked fine as they allowed blood to flow to feet. Now I only wear compression running or skiing socks. Usually very thin.
After all it is free
After all it is free
RichieC43 wrote:
Don't get pre-occupied with the flex number, it is not a fine science and just a marketing guide.
Flex is way more than just a marketing guide. I suffered for years with thigh burn that i thought was due to lack of fitness. A proper boot fitter identified that the flex index of my boots was way too low and they were collapsing when i leaned into them. Consequently, i was effectively 'hovering' in my ski boots with my thighs taking all the load.
A properly fitted, stiffer boot was a revelation in terms of endurance. All of sudden i could ski without thigh burn.
My advice to the OP is to spend the extra getting a pair of boots properly fitted. Colin at Solutions For Feet identified my problem and described the consequences perfectly. Unfortunately, he didn't have a boot in stock that would be suitable for me so lost out on a sale, but Lockwoods in Leamington Spa identified the same problem, supplied me with a properly fitted pair of boots and my enjoyment of skiing as gone through the roof now that my thighs aren't screaming at me halfway down every run.
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lower wrote:
RichieC43 wrote:
Don't get pre-occupied with the flex number, it is not a fine science and just a marketing guide.
Flex is way more than just a marketing guide. I suffered for years with thigh burn that i thought was due to lack of fitness. A proper boot fitter identified that the flex index of my boots was way too low and they were collapsing when i leaned into them. Consequently, i was effectively 'hovering' in my ski boots with my thighs taking all the load.
You've misunderstood my point - clearly flex is important, I meant the number conjured up by each manufacturer.
It doesnt relate to anything other than its placement in their range
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RichieC43 wrote:
lower wrote:
RichieC43 wrote:
Don't get pre-occupied with the flex number, it is not a fine science and just a marketing guide.
Flex is way more than just a marketing guide. I suffered for years with thigh burn that i thought was due to lack of fitness. A proper boot fitter identified that the flex index of my boots was way too low and they were collapsing when i leaned into them. Consequently, i was effectively 'hovering' in my ski boots with my thighs taking all the load.
You've misunderstood my point - clearly flex is important, I meant the number conjured up by each manufacturer.
It doesnt relate to anything other than its placement in their range
Agreed.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Whitegoldsbrother wrote:
"I’m confident and pretty quick and on recent holiday to Borovets I managed to weave my way down the slopes without taking anyone out or crashing into anyone."
Binned it after that little nugget
So why bother even commenting then??
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks for the input and advice - especially the socks. I went to Cervinia in December and will be going back there later this year. Went Borovets for a very cheap trip and to have lessons - my comment on not crashing into people was due to the volume of people on the mountain there…but it served a purpose and it turns out I’m a quick learner. I live close to Xscape so wanting my own boots so I can carry on having lessons through the year.
My original post was a question about flex and thanks for the input.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Boywonder, Flex can't be properly be determined by people on a Forum. It needs proper assessment and a knowledge of what each manufacturer's flex is like.
By getting Boots online, you miss out on the whole assessment and the ability to heat and mould the liner and shell to your leg/foot.
You may have only asked about Flex - but that opened up a discussion that imv gave good advice. If you do go the internet route, you are certainly not the first and won't be the last.....but it is likely not the way to go for a long term, comfortable, close fitting pair of boots.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Can't believe you guys think the manufacturers all test their boots differently and just manage to somehow get close to the mark. They all test the same, all brands, all models.
Customer Ankle flex is as important as size, flex of the boot should be +110nm for any adult over 55kg. God knows what people think they are doing at 110kg, pootling around in 90nm flex rental boots. Don't care what the manufacturers tell you, the science doesn't stack up.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CH2O wrote:
Can't believe you guys think the manufacturers all test their boots differently and just manage to somehow get close to the mark. They all test the same, all brands, all models.
I don't know how manufacturers test - but since I'm not a Bootfitter, I listen to CEM, who has said: "Flex numbers are variable between brands and even models within brands..."
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Old Fartbag, you do know CH2O is also a distinguished bootfitter? I do hope a dialogue between him and CEM ensues.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think CEM should/does know better than that, I know him, and his problem solving nature would have got him quite far regards the subject. Perhaps like the reps, he prefers to keep the subject simple. I've heard the head of RnD at Atomic deny this too, however then seen documents and test results, confirming the contrary to that he said on a podcast, why i don't fully understand.
@Old Fartbag, I feel for you all, really I do, a quick search yelds nothing but nonsense, to agree with this nonsense having empirical evidence to the contrary is dumb. It is both convenient for bootsellers and manufacturers to index flex, create an air of vagueness around the subject, it upsets us, because it simply doesn't make sense. Weight is the number one factor when choosing a ski boot flex, second height, ability i have no idea, I have three identical (jnr racers) skiers here, one weighs 30kg, one weighs 45, the last 58kg, their coaches demand they all have the same flex boots. A spot of acetone does the trick, one in 70, one in 90, the other in 120, the numbers have literally floated off into the ether.
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According to them (as a result of speaking with Matt Manser, the product manager of Atomic Ski Boots), this is how Atomic measure flex ratings:
"When starting to design a boot, they tend to start with the 130. They then purchase the 130 boots from all relevant competitors, and measure each of their flex patterns. They measure them using in-store and field tests, as well as a custom-built robot (below is a graph of flex pattern data collected from a single boot design).
Having ranked the competitors, they then aim for their boot to land in the middle, in order to be the “average” stiffness among the 130 boots out there.
After experimenting with materials and design and arriving at the desired stiffness, they create the less stiff (120, 110, 100, etc.) models by blending in percentages of softer materials".
If they all conformed to the same standard, there would be no need for Atomic to rank competitors. According to Matt Manser, they absolutely do accurate measuring with a robot and have a huge store of data, which they use to ensure consistency within their ranges....but that only relates to their product. The relevant bit of the Podcast discussing this, is from 16m to 24m.
I am not trying to be argumentative - just fully understand. Like you say, everywhere I look, say the same thing.
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It was that exact Podcast that made us revisit the offices and verify what we believe.
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