 Poster: A snowHead
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Salomon S/Max 110 Boots - Are people finding these boots colder than normal..... ?
I trusted a boot fitter to pick a boot...... But found them very cold right off.....Now I figured it was just the new tight liner cutting off circulation..... These were very tight when new.... Put on in my living room and my feet went numb after 20 minutes....
Well a month later and boots are now molded to my feet nicely.... But these boots are only good to ski in at about 32 F, below that my feet freeze.
I have Merino ski socks from the boot fitter..... Have tried unbuckling boots on the lift - does not help at all.
These boots seem smaller on the outside than other boots..... Are they thinner by design to save weight and COLDER as a result....
Bootfitter - is saying that it must be that my feet must have poor circulation - but I am suspicious that these are just cold boots...
HELP - Is it me or the Boots.... ?
I am an intermediate skier, but 57 so not too aggressive - If it is me and not the Boots - who makes warm boots for a 110 flex ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never heard of boot shells being colder than others. Usually liners make the difference. But sounds like circulation is your issue. There are relatively easy fixes - heated footbeds, external neoprene covers ( boot gloves) and aftermarket liners . IME Zipfit> Intuition> stock.
If you're feet are too cold at 0C/32F then it's probably a you problem not a boot problem provided the boot is well fitted.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hi: Thanks - I will buy some Boot Gloves...... see how that helps first....
Will try my old boots and see how they compare for warmth.... in case my memory is not telling me the truth 
Is there a big difference in boots warmth ? Can you buy warmer model boots... ?
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There are going to be some variations but I can't imagine immense. More likely it's your feet in a different position.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Agree, the plastic has very little role in insulation in any decent boot in which the shell will be thin. The most important things are the liner and how well you foot is perfused. It may be the case that blood flow to the foot is still reduced even if you no longer have paresthesia. It will likely improve in time.
Also worth asking if you have cold feet in day to day life. If you ask a 3rd party to grasp your bare feet, is one foot colder that the other or are they both significantly colder than usual? Also worth asking if you suffer from cold hands? If any of these is true or you have recently begun to suffer from such symptoms it is worth discussing this with your GP.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 6-02-23 10:59; edited 1 time in total
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| LoveSnow429 wrote: |
I am an intermediate skier, but 57 so not too aggressive |
Does not compute.
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@LoveSnow429, certainly not a colder boot than any other, sounds like either therer is a slight pinch point which is restricting circulation or you have poor circulation in the first place.... if boot gloves don't help in any way i would say it is a pinch point (either behind the ankles or over the instep are the common ones)
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@LoveSnow429, heatmoldable liners offer less insulation than traditional Cordura ones. Could that be the reason?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@LoveSnow429, ….I think CEM is right…I have a difficult relationship with Salomon boots. The old X Wave had a brilliant last (for me) but someone in Annecy obviously thought that the instep height was too great in Salomon boots and tightened it right down over the bridge of each foot - exactly where runs the main blood supply for the foot. Too tight over there and I get problems - you may be experiencing the same thing. Regretably very difficult to expand this part of the lower boot - grind the tongue a little?
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I have the s-max 120. Can't say I find it colder than any other boot.
As for making adjustments to the instep height, surely easier to grind the boot board or footbed than the instep.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Roguevfr wrote: |
I have the s-max 120. Can't say I find it colder than any other boot.
As for making adjustments to the instep height, surely easier to grind the boot board or footbed than the instep. |
it really isn't a difficult area to adjust with the correct tools and skills
if you lower the base board you shift the whole foot down in the boot and can create a load of other issues than solving the one area where the problem is, if the compression is just at one point i really don't want to make the rest of the boot looser as that then encourages the user to tighten the buckles and cut the blood supply off again.
the other thing could just be compression from the liner, the salomon liners (and this is changing imminently) have a canvas type material that is between the outer skin and the insulation layer, this canvas doesn't stretch so can cause the liner to compress the foot side to side, if this is happening it will can push the foot up into the top of the shell, release the surface tension and all of a sudden numerous issues disappear
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I've never heard of boot shells being colder than others. |
The physicist enters the room and introduces Stefan–Boltzmann law 
TL;DR the colour or more specifically the emissivity of your boot will make a noticeable difference. White and silver are good and black is bad if you want warm feet.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
White and silver are good and black is bad if you want warm feet.
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Are you talking about heat from the feet escaping from the boot? (which is what emissivity means to me, but I only have O level physics). What difference does the colour of the outside of the boot make to that? As for sunshine coming in, a black car is hotter than a white car, isn't it?
I suspect that as we get older our ability to keep our extremities warm often declines. It could be old age, rather than physics. Entropy, perhaps?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I've never heard of boot shells being colder than others. |
The physicist enters the room and introduces Stefan–Boltzmann law
TL;DR the colour or more specifically the emissivity of your boot will make a noticeable difference. White and silver are good and black is bad if you want warm feet. |
I'd be interested if you could demonstrate this in an experiment with feet in identical liners and otherwise identical shells bar the colour.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Black stoves ? Usually metal and decent conductor.
Unsure how much the colour difference will be on an insulator like plastic though.
Maybe I'm on the wrong track 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
White and silver are good and black is bad if you want warm feet.
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Are you talking about heat from the feet escaping from the boot? (which is what emissivity means to me, but I only have O level physics). What difference does the colour of the outside of the boot make to that? As for sunshine coming in, a black car is hotter than a white car, isn't it?
I suspect that as we get older our ability to keep our extremities warm often declines. It could be old age, rather than physics. Entropy, perhaps? |
Emissivity is the measure of how efficiently a surface radiates heat. It is a number between zero and one. A perfect black body (the ideal radiator of heat in physics) would have an emissivity of one. As in all things, physics nothing perfect exists, especially when it comes to thermodynamics. In the real world, a typical black object would be around 0.95 and a white object around 0.84. Consequently, a white object will lose about 11-12% less heat than a black one all other things being equal according to Stefan–Boltzmann law.
The takeaway is if you have cold feet, then white boots would be noticeably warmer than black ones. Reflective surfaces are better still, but I have yet to see a pair of silver ski boots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Isn't that with the assumption that the foot has 100% transfer of heat to that final outer colour ?
Which in the boot it doesn't, but travels through sock, liner, shell substrate etc to arrive at that surface to cool air interface.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
white boots would be noticeably warmer than black ones
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but of you're sitting in the sun maybe the black ones would be fine. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I'd be interested if you could demonstrate this in an experiment with feet in identical liners and otherwise identical shells bar the colour. |
Black body radiation, the Stefan-Boltzmann law and measuring the emissivity of objects is (or at least when I did mine) a standard A level physics practical. I understand everyone hasn't done a degree in Physics, but this is just one of those things if you haven't you just need to accept. To a physicist, this is as self-evident as water being wet and the idea of needing to do an experiment to demonstrate it, is as ridiculous as Russian claims they were forced to invade Ukraine.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Isn't that with the assumption that the foot has 100% transfer of heat to that final outer colour ?
Which in the boot it doesn't, but travels through sock, liner, shell substrate etc to arrive at that surface to cool air interface. |
Nope, the only assumption is the colour of the plastic in the outer shell varies. Basically, heat is moving from the foot to the surroundings. One of those mechanisms is radiation from the surface of the boot. Changing the colour of the boot will change the amount of heat radiated. If more heat is lost from the boot then more heat will be lost from the foot and it will get colder.
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We all know, that what makes a ski boot really Cool, is its colour....and that restricted blood flow has nothing to do with it. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| ski3 wrote: |
Isn't that with the assumption that the foot has 100% transfer of heat to that final outer colour ?
Which in the boot it doesn't, but travels through sock, liner, shell substrate etc to arrive at that surface to cool air interface. |
Nope, the only assumption is the colour of the plastic in the outer shell varies. Basically, heat is moving from the foot to the surroundings. One of those mechanisms is radiation from the surface of the boot. Changing the colour of the boot will change the amount of heat radiated. If more heat is lost from the boot then more heat will be lost from the foot and it will get colder. |
As you say, one of the mechanisms is radiation from the surface of the boot, but it's certainly not the only one. The difference between black and white boots won't be the 11% you mentioned and I doubt it would even be perceptible.
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| Quote: |
As you say, one of the mechanisms is radiation from the surface of the boot, but it's certainly not the only one. The difference between black and white boots won't be the 11% you mentioned and I doubt it would even be perceptible.
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This ^
At the temperatures involved here the vast majority of the heat will be lost by convection and conduction. The other thing to remember is that the heat loss by radiation is dependent upon the temperature difference between the boot and the surroundings (ie it's radiating heat out and receiving radiation in from the surroundings). Again the temperature difference between the external surface of the boot and it's surroundings is going to be very little so the heat loss by radiation will be minimal / negligible.
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