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A rental ski stole my balls!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I thought I'd rent a pure piste ski today, just to try something different. I went to the shop and told the guy my requirements and he gave me some Rossi Hero Multiturn Carbons and took 28 Euros off me. I've seen dozens of these in the lift queues this week, so they must be good. So I thought.

First impressions: they turned ridiculously easily and felt so light it was like there was nothing on my feet. I wasn't sure that I liked that feeling, but it was probably because it was just different.

Anyway, no problem at all on the first couple of flattish blues. Then I came to a steeper, faster piste with some icy and bumpy patches and... nearly soiled myself! Edge hold was terrible; upon merely touching icy snow they broke away suddenly and were difficult to recover, and they were also very easily deflected off line by crud and bumps.

I persisted but after a few more heart-in-mouth moments over the next hour or so I began to lose confidence - not in the ski, but in myself: I could actually feel myself carrying a layer of tension and a nervous sensation whenever the terrain got a bit steep or icy: these skis were making me scared. Utterly ridiculous I told myself, and pressed on, hard, convinced I'd push through.

I didn't!

One more bad slide and I bottled it completely, took them back to the hotel and got my own skis out. It only to a few turns to reassure me that the problem was the rental skis (or my technique in relation to them) rather than me, but it took me fully the rest of the day to recover my confidence completely.

What a difference a ski makes! Until today I was honestly naive enough to think that skiing was a one way journey; forward to move skill, more confidence, more ability. Sure, not every ski would suit you, but that wouldn't stop your growth as a skier. How wrong. I honestly think that if I had to spend a week on these I'd be a worse skier at the end of it.
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Sounds more like the tuning of the ski rather than the ski itself. How were the edges?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have two thoughts:

- You would be better off with some Metal in the ski
- The edges were not as sharp as they could be.....or you may be used to 1,3.
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Rental ski tune could easily be fubared. Plus easy turning kinda hints that vice like ice grip might not be in the performance envelope.

But mainly your post reminds me how I hate really hardpacked pistes.
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endoman wrote:
Sounds more like the tuning of the ski rather than the ski itself. How were the edges?

In my flustered state it never occurred to me to check. They are now safely back in the shop where they await a new mug (I mean valued client) to rent them.
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The Hero Elite Multi Turn is a brilliant piste ski with great edge hold, sounds like they were knackered with no edges.
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greengriff wrote:
I could actually feel myself carrying a layer of tension and a nervous sensation whenever the terrain got a bit steep or icy...


Welcome to my World Embarassed Toofy Grin
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
As above, bad tune
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@greengriff, Out of interest what are your own skis and do you service them yourself?
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I found your balls. Please western union me £200 & I shall return them polished like new.
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Timc wrote:
@greengriff, Out of interest what are your own skis and do you service them yourself?


The old full rocker Volkl Mantra, and yes I wax them and do the side edges myself with a little tool (no, not that little tool).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Gored wrote:
I found your balls. Please western union me £200 & I shall return them polished like new.

If you can restore these wrinkly, knackered, saggy old things to new for £200 then you've got a deal. I also think you could start a business doing it and be a millionaire in a few weeks!
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greengriff wrote:
Timc wrote:
@greengriff, Out of interest what are your own skis and do you service them yourself?


The old full rocker Volkl Mantra, and yes I wax them and do the side edges myself with a little tool (no, not that little tool).


Next time you rent take your little tool with you, it will protect your balls Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@greengriff, ...the scene: I walked into Yves' office and said 'oh new race skis' (Rossignol GS 170) he said 'have a go...', I said 'hmmm....OK...'.

Up the hill....adjust bindings to my BSL at the top station, note that the DIN starts at 10 and I am usually 5.5 .... gulp. Do not FooK Urp.

Turn Radius 21M.

Gingerly drop into the slope. The sensation is like being in an accelerating supercar. What the F%++++.....we're off!!!!...I get on the front of the ski and the edge just locks in, and the ski is soooo smoooooth. Completely damped vibration and my eyes still being sucked into my eye sockets. It's simply terrifyingly fast. I try to skid the ski to scrub off some of the hypervelocity and the ski is having none of it, nope we are locking into 21M and that's what's going to happen. So I turn left, and turn right, and turn left....nope still warp speed. And my ACLs seem to be passing in front of my vision as would the life of a drowning man. The BIG temptation is to try to hockey stop but I know that getting in the back seat in any kind of hesitant way is A Bad Idea. So I press on, in control but woah, so fast...and smooth...and fast.

Arriving at the bottom station is a considerable relief. I am not tempted to go again.

I go the SMS office and Yves says 'how were they....' (rather too nonchalantly I think) '...er...fast...' said I. 'Yep' says Yves, and gets on with some paperwork....
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@greengriff, ....blimey just read that you use full rocker Mantras. I CANNOT imagine more of a contrast: from full rocker sidewall Mantras to Rossignol Hero Carbons. Blimey that's like switching from a full 200mm full sus DH bike to a TDF Carbon lightweight. Which is a VERY good analogy. You only get edge grip (but heaps of it, I know) on the FR Mantras by dialling in that contact point just to the fore of the front binding, and bending the ski around that. You only get edge grip on the Heros by strong engagement of the tip, followed by really pressuring the rest of the edge. It's COMPLETELY different. Your brain was probably lapsing to Mantra-mode, with the very slight backseat tendency which the Mantras encourage, and which makes them excel in slop and chop. I don't think your brain was ready for such a HUGE change and I genuinely mean that. And yes, the skis could have been terribly prep'd too....
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@valais2, Great anecdote - it makes we want to try a GS ski - on a very wide, very empty slope with lots of run off!

Interesting thoughts re. the Mantra. It could well be me, but I also own a stiff full camber ski (Atomic Vantage 90ti) which I absolutely love and get on really well with.
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valais2 wrote:
new race skis' (Rossignol GS 170)

Children's skis.

Even 16yo boys will be on 188 30m ones.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
greengriff wrote:
I could actually feel myself carrying a layer of tension and a nervous sensation whenever the terrain got a bit steep or icy...


have a go at boarding wink
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@valais2, And that is why, despite her protestations, I only let my daughter use her FIS GS skis when actually race training or racing! They are bigger than her, and heavier than my Stockli piste skis. She can control them, but the turn radius is too big and the speed too high for safety around recreational skiers. Plus its annoying when she kicks my backside on piste. She started migrating away from racing at around 14 as she saw the gap between her and the really committed/talented athletes widen massively. Only full seasons of training would cut it, alongside huge commitment to off-snow training, and probably did not have the core talent to make it to the top anyway. She has now migrated back to occasional race training and racing for her school mostly to get her fix of that GS feeling!

All that said a session on proper GS race skis is a great lesson. One of my guide friends has the same BSL as me, and put me on his GS skis a couple of times to teach me a lesson on balance and full commitment as I get a bit lazy at times. It was an uncomfortable but useful exercise, the race skis will absolutely kick you if you get it even slightly wrong!
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@greengriff, bad edge prep. Almost no question. The Rossis are a detuned, mid radius piste ski. I’d imagine, in theory, very easily skiable.
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Red Leon wrote:
greengriff wrote:
I could actually feel myself carrying a layer of tension and a nervous sensation whenever the terrain got a bit steep or icy...


Welcome to my World Embarassed Toofy Grin


And mine!!! Interesting post though
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Having read this thread, can I ask the experts here about a rental ski choice...

Me: skiing for 40 years, mainly 1-2 weeks per season (except the forced break..) and always rented skis. I'm a piste skier who likes to travel at a reasonable pace mainly doing nice long open turns using the width of the piste. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm on a slalom course and chuck in some short sharp turns too!

I've booked hire and I can choose from:
Atomic Redster G7 or S7
Movement Go 90 or 98 TI
Elan AMPHIBIO PORSCHE DESIGN
Dynastar speed 963
Blizzard BLIZZ THUNDER R15 WIDEBODY

What would you hire?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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@ciderinsport, from various reviews, my opinion.

Atomic as median choice, elan if top end speed performance is where it's at for you, Dynastar to really enhance the short radius turns if you prioritise that element.

All those look fun on piste though.
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ciderinsport wrote:
Having read this thread, can I ask the experts here about a rental ski choice...

Me: skiing for 40 years, mainly 1-2 weeks per season (except the forced break..) and always rented skis. I'm a piste skier who likes to travel at a reasonable pace mainly doing nice long open turns using the width of the piste. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm on a slalom course and chuck in some short sharp turns too!

I've booked hire and I can choose from:
Atomic Redster G7 or S7
Movement Go 90 or 98 TI
Elan AMPHIBIO PORSCHE DESIGN
Dynastar speed 963
Blizzard BLIZZ THUNDER R15 WIDEBODY

What would you hire?

I personally would take the Dynastar Speed 963. I currently own the Dynastar Speed Zone 12 (which I think has been rebadged as the Speed 763), which I love. The 963 has a narrower waist, so would be an even more reactive, SL orientated ski. They are however less forgiving than the 763.....but that is me. If you like longer turns, then maybe another choice would be better - possibly the Redster G7 (Lighter and easier going); or the Blizzard (if you like a very Damp, Stable and Hard Charging ski).

It will be very different to the wider body skis on your list, which are much more AM oriented. For Longer turns, look for a Turning Radius of 16-18m. For Piste only, IMO a Piste ski is prefereable - so a width of 68 to 80 underfoot.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 1-02-23 15:10; edited 3 times in total
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@ciderinsport, I actually acquired Movement GO 98s at the start of the season for something a bit more soft-snow. They're very nice but would not be my choice as a piste ski!
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@valais2, we so enjoyed reading that! Very Happy
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
lynnecha wrote:
@valais2, we so enjoyed reading that! Very Happy

We definitely did.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ciderinsport wrote:
Having read this thread, can I ask the experts here about a rental ski choice...

Me: skiing for 40 years, mainly 1-2 weeks per season (except the forced break..) and always rented skis. I'm a piste skier who likes to travel at a reasonable pace mainly doing nice long open turns using the width of the piste. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm on a slalom course and chuck in some short sharp turns too!

I've booked hire and I can choose from:
Atomic Redster G7 or S7
Movement Go 90 or 98 TI
Elan AMPHIBIO PORSCHE DESIGN
Dynastar speed 963
Blizzard BLIZZ THUNDER R15 WIDEBODY

What would you hire?


I’ve a friend who’s an instructor and he loves the G7. Another friend ex-racer (Austrian development) also swears by the G7. My daily ski is the G9 which is super stable at speed and long carves, yet surprisingly agile on shorter turns….takes a bit of driving, though!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@greengriff, Another vote for a bad tune on those skis from me. They are designed to be a fun ski.
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ciderinsport wrote:
Having read this thread, can I ask the experts here about a rental ski choice...

Me: skiing for 40 years, mainly 1-2 weeks per season (except the forced break..) and always rented skis. I'm a piste skier who likes to travel at a reasonable pace mainly doing nice long open turns using the width of the piste. Sometimes I like to pretend I'm on a slalom course and chuck in some short sharp turns too!

I've booked hire and I can choose from:
Atomic Redster G7 or S7
Movement Go 90 or 98 TI
Elan AMPHIBIO PORSCHE DESIGN
Dynastar speed 963
Blizzard BLIZZ THUNDER R15 WIDEBODY

What would you hire?


If 90 or 98 is waist width, I don't understand what Movement is doing in this list.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Orange200, I'm guessing that's just what's in the rental list
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under a new name wrote:
@Orange200, I'm guessing that's just what's in the rental list


Exactly!

I had G7's last year and found them to be brilliant till it got slushy at the end of the holiday. As I have the option to swap and change I'll probably start with them unless it's dumping down or all melting (going in March).. then try a wider one!

Thanks for all the info!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Gored wrote:
I found your balls. Please western union me £200 & I shall return them polished like new.


Very Happy Very Happy
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ciderinsport wrote:
under a new name wrote:
@Orange200, I'm guessing that's just what's in the rental list


Exactly!

I had G7's last year and found them to be brilliant till it got slushy at the end of the holiday. As I have the option to swap and change I'll probably start with them unless it's dumping down or all melting (going in March).. then try a wider one!

Thanks for all the info!


That slushy, chop, warm, end of day condition certainly does support a ski choice starting around 90mm and so something to include if that predominates.

Bigger tip, possibly a little longer with decent rocker at front is a nice combination to let you ski rougher surface conditions easily.
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@ski3, ….absolutely. In both mtb and skiing, design innovation is pressing ahead really quickly….

Why didn’t we insist earlier on 63deg head angles and steep seat angles….

And more rocker but with stiffer sidewalks and torsional stiffness….

These are easy to deliver…and change so much….
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Can't comment on either ski in question, but I skied most of a fairly powdery week in Jan on my Atomic Vantage 100ctis which I had 'tuned' myself. They were glorious off piste in 10-15cm of light powder on a softish base, but I was skiing like crap on piste and really struggling to get the edges to hold. Ended up losing my nerve a bit. I assumed it was just a lack of fitness/practice over the last couple of years. Took them to the man on my second last night to get them tuned so I wouldn't have to do it myself next time I was going away. The Friday morning was a revelation. All of a sudden they did what they were supposed to. I couldn't get over how different they were. The moral of the story for me is to stop pishing about with stupid wee files and just give them to the guy in the proper shop.

TLDR: bad tuning is real.
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@element, …indeed it is real…

…and can see you are in NI

In middle Earth we have access to Jon Coster, who does brilliant tuning courses …and he really knows his stuff

I service maybe 50 sets of skis each season and can, due to Jon’s magic, precisely prep with a vengeance….
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valais2 wrote:
@ski3, ….absolutely. In both mtb and skiing, design innovation is pressing ahead really quickly….

Why didn’t we insist earlier on 63deg head angles and steep seat angles….

And more rocker but with stiffer sidewalks and torsional stiffness….

These are easy to deliver…and change so much….


Yes, definitely. I like cross pollination of details that may significantly influence something else, unusual in mtb with tight head angle as moto-× had done that years before, just the resistance by mtb probably overcame a sensible appraisal, until someone went much faster Very Happy

I was a first iteration owner of Salamon 1080 as tried them on hire and couldn't believe the difference in outlook that ski gave. Many didn't get it, with pointing and "noodles" being the normal reaction, they pre-empted so much that comes now of course.

A very lucid approach to ski design and absolutely a turning point in understanding for the industry with skis.
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This thread has got me wondering. I am an off-piste skier (ie only normally ski pistes to get to/from off piste). I ski Head Kore (180). Not particularly wide (93 waist) but skis everything off piste brilliantly and does quite well on piste too. I ski fast and hard and guides complement my technique. However on piste, icy steeper pistes do get me skidding my turns quite a bit.
At one time, nearly forty years ago, I did ski what they called racing skis on piste. They probably weren't proper racing skis.
If there were a day in the future where I had been rattling over hard sastrugi all day, with occasional breakable crust as light relief, and decided to try a grippy GS ski on piste again, what would people suggest?
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I'll leave the GS recommendations to others, so setting aside that view a ski covering both aspect and particularly good mix of soft and hard condition is the "Kastlè FX 96 HP" pushes substantially toward GS with torsional ability to rival, but with waist, rocker and geometry to support off piste too. Its a sublime mix across the disciplines and worthy of testing/consideration I believe.

These are seriously good, and easily exceed in design remit and performance of your existing ski @snowball, in relation to that very specific edge hold in GS type attributes.
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