 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For me with the same issue, it was not enough weight on the front. Soon as I threw myself forward on the skis, problem gone.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Talkbacks, made in china, ski like noodles.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Do you put your skis on an edge or leave them flat to the snow?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@chaletgirl, sounds like weight too far back. If you are bending a bit too much at the hip you might actually be sitting back a bit (especially if you're a tad nervous). With flexed ankles, knees and hips it would be possible to feel like you're forward (shins against the fronts of your boots) but actually have your centre of gravity further back because your knees are too bent (and then you fold at the hip to try to compensate).
Either run edge to edge (ie carve very wide turns, barely leaving the fall line) or try pulling your feet back under you if you keep the skis flat (as opposed to leaning forwards - if this works, it'll help you a more balanced position when running straight).
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@chaletgirl, have a go at an indoor snowdome.
Try using their kit.
If that does not work have a lesson to refresh your skills.
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@chaletgirl, ooh this looks like fun! Would be a lot easier to explain on a hill but I'll have a go at doing it in writing 
if it's only one ski, I'm going to assume it's the inside one. Wiggly tips are caused by the ski being too flat on the snow rather than on a very minimal edge, which they should be, even on a "straight". As you're female, and based on the complaint, I'm also going to assume that you have some degree of A frame in your skiing stance due to your inherent anatomy. Nothing personal, it's just biology...!
You've said that your normal skiing stance is good which I'm going to assume means reasonably centred fore/aft and that your "too much bend at the hip" is sideways rather than forwards, though it's unlikely to be the issue either way if it's only on one ski. You haven't said if you're skiing upright or in a tuck but I'd recommend upright to focus on what's bothering you. If you are in a tuck, and the issue is you're too far back, then the fix is to focus on placing your elbows in front of your knees but my gut feeling is that's not the issue. If you're in a tuck and you've got an A frame you'll end up on both inside edges and that'll kill your speed anyway so better to be upright.
The most likely scenario is that your outside ski is on a slight edge and stable and your inside ski is flat and unstable from an A frame stance. To fix it, just focus on leaning your inside knee (the wobbly one) towards the outside of your stance/inside of the (very shallow) turn. Essentially, widening the gap between your knees but only through moving the wiggly ski's knee - the other one's fine.
None of your equipment is doing you any favours for fast gliding but just take the opportunity to practice on other slopes and paths where it's not critical and you'll soon work it out. At all points in skiing, even in a straight, you should be in a turn (even an incredibly shallow one) so one ski should always have more pressure on it than the other one and you should be alternating that pressure between left and right, even on a "flat". Anytime you don't have active pressure, you'll get the wiggle. You don't need any ankle rotation, the shape of the ski will automatically put you in a very shallow turn through pressure alone.
So, pressure your right ski without rotation and actively flex your left knee away from your right knee. Then switch. Actively pressure your left ski and actively flex your right knee away from your left.
Should work... but you'll have to feed back after messing around with it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's not different. They're saying one ski is flat and catching whatever snow is around and flipping from inside to outside edge and back again. Their solution is to pick it up and put it down on one edge. Rolling your wobbly knee outwards will produce exactly the same result.
But rolling your knee is a better technique for long term technique progression because it will also help you align your thighs and improve your stability for carving. Picking one ski up is a training exercise for carving, not a long term technique. If you do it every time you're out of balance on a flat it'll just become a counterproductive bad habit.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
@chaletgirl, have a go at an indoor snowdome.
Try using their kit.
If that does not work have a lesson to refresh your skills. |
Pretty sure there's no snowdomes near me!! But I do have a mountain to practice on - after February (not skiing in Feb again after last year!!)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
@chaletgirl, ooh this looks like fun! Would be a lot easier to explain on a hill but I'll have a go at doing it in writing
if it's only one ski, I'm going to assume it's the inside one. Wiggly tips are caused by the ski being too flat on the snow rather than on a very minimal edge, which they should be, even on a "straight". As you're female, and based on the complaint, I'm also going to assume that you have some degree of A frame in your skiing stance due to your inherent anatomy. Nothing personal, it's just biology...!
You've said that your normal skiing stance is good which I'm going to assume means reasonably centred fore/aft and that your "too much bend at the hip" is sideways rather than forwards, though it's unlikely to be the issue either way if it's only on one ski. You haven't said if you're skiing upright or in a tuck but I'd recommend upright to focus on what's bothering you. If you are in a tuck, and the issue is you're too far back, then the fix is to focus on placing your elbows in front of your knees but my gut feeling is that's not the issue. If you're in a tuck and you've got an A frame you'll end up on both inside edges and that'll kill your speed anyway so better to be upright.
The most likely scenario is that your outside ski is on a slight edge and stable and your inside ski is flat and unstable from an A frame stance. To fix it, just focus on leaning your inside knee (the wobbly one) towards the outside of your stance/inside of the (very shallow) turn. Essentially, widening the gap between your knees but only through moving the wiggly ski's knee - the other one's fine.
None of your equipment is doing you any favours for fast gliding but just take the opportunity to practice on other slopes and paths where it's not critical and you'll soon work it out. At all points in skiing, even in a straight, you should be in a turn (even an incredibly shallow one) so one ski should always have more pressure on it than the other one and you should be alternating that pressure between left and right, even on a "flat". Anytime you don't have active pressure, you'll get the wiggle. You don't need any ankle rotation, the shape of the ski will automatically put you in a very shallow turn through pressure alone.
So, pressure your right ski without rotation and actively flex your left knee away from your right knee. Then switch. Actively pressure your left ski and actively flex your right knee away from your left.
Should work... but you'll have to feed back after messing around with it |
Thanx to all of you for the replies.
I am pretty sure I do put my weight forward - I remember making sure my hips were forward on 'straights' when I first started skiing, only about 12 years ago and haven't skied much at all in the last few years for lots of reasons - despite living on a mountain - so I might have forgotten last week I guess.
When I say I bend at the hips sometimes, that's when turning/carving, not on the straight. Definitely I bend forward, as if leaning over. Pretty sure the only sideways I do is leaning away from the slope traversing (but haven't analysed it!)!!
Not sure what A frame means in the context of ski shapes!! LOL
However, from what you've written and others have said, I suspect the main issue is that I ski straight with both skis pretty much flat rather than put in any edge. Probably!! I'll have to try the knee movement next time I'm high enough to do a long fast straight! (Probably March as generally only ski tour up the piste in Feb and I'm so not fit enough to get high enough to waste empty pistes on straight lining them!!)
Thank you so much. Makes total sense! And, the kit was bought for touring (only on piste due to injuries!) but also due to issues with the main problem (full inverse shoulder replacement) I really haven't got back into skiing until last week. The two days I skied last week made me feel I was actually comfortable and had everything pretty sorted - apart from those darned fast straight lines! And that had been an issue in the past, I just haven't gone that fast int he last 5 or 6 years!! LOL
Will post back when I do eventually go back out
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| chaletgirl wrote: |
Not sure what A frame means in the context of ski shapes!! LOL
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An A Frame simply means the shins are not parallel - and thus the skis are not on the same edge angle.
The Female physiology means that the knees can be close together, while the skis are wider apart. This puts the skis on their inside edges.
Lady F had this problem that could only be corrected with alignment.
Old school technique often had the D/Hill knee angling inwards, without doing the same with the U/Hill one (which was only there as a outrigger).....and this also created an A shape.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| chaletgirl wrote: |
Not sure what A frame means in the context of ski shapes!! LOL
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An A Frame simply means the shins are not parallel - and thus the skis are not on the same edge angle.
The Female physiology means that the knees can be close together, while the skis are wider apart. This puts the skis on their inside edges.
Lady F had this problem that could only be corrected with alignment.
Old school technique often had the D/Hill knee angling inwards, without doing the same with the U/Hill one (which was only there as a outrigger).....and this also created an A shape. |
Thank you. I'm pretty sure I'm not inside edging, I've worked really hard on stance and edges (mostly for turning!) and think my instructor friend would have told me. But maybe not.
I do know that my boot fitter here did work hard on both pairs of boots cos one of my feet is flat/has no arch so maybe he worked more on the boots than I realised? (It was a few years ago!)
Something else to work out next time I'm out!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Could skate over the flat bits, then no issue with speed.
As others have said above, keep skis on edges - watch a snowboarder on a cat-track; they are never running exactly flat.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have you tried other skis and does the same thing happen, and/or have you checked the bases are flat, ie not convex?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| Have you tried other skis and does the same thing happen, and/or have you checked the bases are flat, ie not convex? |
The current skis have had very light use and so aren't really 'old'. Think I bought them four years ago.
But I did have the same issue years ago with various skis, so I think that what was said above about me having the skis flat to the snow, rather than with a slight edge, is probably the issue. But I'll get someone to check these skis in case
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@chaletgirl, maybe you could just not worry about it?
By which I mean, skis "wobble" all the time. Unless it's causing you a physical problem, it's not a problem.
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As others have said, Just do the gentle of turns (slight edge). Feels much safer and you loose negligible speed.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@chaletgirl, maybe you could just not worry about it?
By which I mean, skis "wobble" all the time. Unless it's causing you a physical problem, it's not a problem. |
LOL I did try that. But when one ski wobbles enough (in a fast straight line) that it almost hits/crosses the other ski, it's not something I can ignore!!! With the various metal bits, I'm happy having confidence again, but not so happy to ignore something that would actually cause a fairly spectacular fall!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| As others have said, Just do the gentle of turns (slight edge). Feels much safer and you loose negligible speed. |
Definitely planning to try that next time I'm out. I won't be skiing when the lifts are open for a few weeks now, but if I get fit enough to walk high enough to do the straight line thing, I will give it a go
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@chaletgirl, What is your boot fit like? I suffered from something similar with some boots fitted by Snow & Rock. They were OK for the first few years then as the liners packed out my foot would be able to move from side to side in the boot. The wiggly ski only happened when trying to do long flattish runs trying to keep speed up so as not to have to pole at the end. When skiing normally and using the edges they didn't wiggle.
Problem cured by getting boots from a proper fitter which were a size smaller than the nice comfy S&N boots.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@chaletgirl, sounds like weight too far back … then.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Fwiw my guess is it‘s an equipment problem. The Talkbacks are light touring skis with soft shovels…try borrowing some piste skis with stiff shovels (eg Nordica Santa Ana, Blizzard Black Pearl or Kästle LX 82) and see whether the problem disappears. (Bytw this is an informed guess - I have had various skis including some Scott Cascade touring skis…ONLY when I skid these on piste did I get jitter at speed - because Cascades (like your Talkbacks) were stripped down to be lighter for touring. I never suffer from this problem when skiing my usual (off piste) Nordica Enforcers or (on piste) Kästle Mx84s). (Bytw I ended up giving my Cascades away and replacing them for touring use with another ski.)
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You know it makes sense.
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„Skied“ not „skid“
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If the problem does reoccur with (borrowed) more burly skis, then you are indeed leaning back. One easy to try tip would be to pole plant fractionally earlier and further forward and (in the steeps) deeper which would bring your upper body forward (and weight the ski shovels more). (Maybe even use shorter poles)…BUT before you fiddle with your technique do try other skis on piste…
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @chaletgirl, sounds like weight too far back … then. |
I'm about 99% certain I'm not leaning back in this situation. And on the occasions I have lent back (tired, end of day) I do really notice it!! But going down straight and fast, definitely don't have weight back. I've asked the friend I skied with last time the wiggle happened and he agreed that my position/weight is good.
Suspect it's cos I'm not putting an edge on both skis - trying to keep them flat for speed and not realising I don't have an egde.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bergsteiger278 wrote: |
| Fwiw my guess is it‘s an equipment problem. The Talkbacks are light touring skis with soft shovels…try borrowing some piste skis with stiff shovels (eg Nordica Santa Ana, Blizzard Black Pearl or Kästle LX 82) and see whether the problem disappears. (Bytw this is an informed guess - I have had various skis including some Scott Cascade touring skis…ONLY when I skid these on piste did I get jitter at speed - because Cascades (like your Talkbacks) were stripped down to be lighter for touring. I never suffer from this problem when skiing my usual (off piste) Nordica Enforcers or (on piste) Kästle Mx84s). (Bytw I ended up giving my Cascades away and replacing them for touring use with another ski.) |
I've found the Talkbacks to be awesome TBH. Haven't tried them off piste and only on the last ski did I have the confidence to 'power through' the lumpy piste stuff and they did actually work fine.
I have had the same issue with all the skis I've ever used. Even the rentals I had as a seasonaire!! So I suspect that it's technique and not using the edges properly.
I will definitely try other skis, but I do think it's likely to be technique rather than ski?!!?!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree it sounds like the problem is not engaging the ski edges.
I don't know the speed you are going but at higher speeds I would expect serious wobble even with good stance and suitable equipment.
Are you confident carving?
If you are able to safely carve very long turns with the edges engaged (instead of just straight lining it) then I'd expect you to get a much less wobbly ride at the same speed. Keeping the edges in also adds control and confidence because you are always able to control your line to avoid hazards and shorten the turn to drop speed quickly. If you get it right you'll be in a bio-mechanically strong position without putting too much strain on your joints too.
The equipment you are using will most likely impact how easy it is to carve, with wider skis typically being more difficult to carve on.
I hope you find a solution that suits your style and keeps you safe on the slopes 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@chaletgirl, or perhaps you're just noticining it and it it's not a problem at all?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dare I suggest you get someone to take a video of you? You have answered a lot of suggestions here with " I am pretty sure I am not..." Scientifically, a video would help to eliminate any uncertainty over what you are, or are not doing. When going straight, do you think there is a bit of a plough going on when you look at your ski tips i.e do they feel like they want to close up a little?
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Don't overthink about the overused term "carving". Just use edges, drive tips .... Let them run ..
Once you do that efficiently ..
You will know if they're too soft or short..or that you were not engaging and just standing on a flat ski and going for a ride at speed (comes from tiredness, poor form, false notion of self protection) Which inevitably gives you ...wobble..
Engage or slow down
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 27-04-23 0:14; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| chaletgirl wrote: |
Suspect it's cos I'm not putting an edge on both skis - trying to keep them flat for speed and not realising I don't have an egde. |
It's perhaps worth pointing out that flat skis are not necessarily going to be faster on the flats than a slight edge. If you watch a good skier you'll often find that they make continual very slight turns, and still go faster than you.
There are at least a couple of factors at play here: the whole surface area of the ski will produce more drag than if one side is slightly lifted, which obviously is the result of edging the other side; in addition the action of transferring weight from one ski to the other can be harnessed to actually impart energy into the ski, like skating in a very small way, but without ever lifting either ski off the snow. I know you said you cant skate, but you could still work on this when moving reasonably quickly, which should reduce your balance and fear issues. Just think of it like carving a turn with a slightly dynamic movement on the edge change, so when moving your weight slightly from one side to the other some of that movement is transferred in the new direction of travel of the new lead ski.
Not sure this makes much sense, perhaps could be worded better, but this is basically how a good skier maintains momentum on the flats and avoids any ski wobble.
Oh, and your weight is too far back, as others have already said 
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On that specific, As a snowboarder I ride flat when I'm in a tuck - it's quicker, in my experience, although there are lots of other factors. I also photographed a few speed ski/ snowboard competitions and obviously all boards are entirely flat there, as are all skis. It's easier to balance with a slight carve, but skilled riders don't need that.
"pumping" is a thing with snowboards too, although there you need undulating terrain and a flat board as you obviously can't skate
If the OP's struggling across multiple different ski flexes/ designs, then I'd either ignore it, fix the stance, or adopt the "don't actually ride flat" tactic as above.
If it's just a pair of noodly skis then I'd get some with different stiffness or damping.
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