 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Some ultra light touring boots have had the Boa system for a while. While the system works great on softer boots (cycling etc), I’m not convinced that the tightening pattern of everything at the same tension works across the toe and instep.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am sceptical. In a lifetime of skiing, I have seen many different approaches but the only system that has prevailed has been 3 or 4 conventional buckle boots. There must be a reason.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Should have been called the Anaconda, the "squeeze" is quite incredible.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As a snowboarder I've never found a pair of boa boots that are as comfortable as speed laces or traditional laces. Of more concern, I've seen boa dials rip off and explode in bits quite a few times as a result of impact. That's enough to keep me away.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Maybe getting old but I see this as a solution to non existing problem.
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AIUI the concerns are:
1 Durability. BOA has a high breakage rate in almost all other applications. This may be a total redesign but until 1000s of people are skiing them we won't really know.
2 being used to cut down no of boot widths offerred. K2 have already started doing this.
3 Unasked for fluff. I barely clip the clog as it is.
I can see if it were to allow softer plastics in the clog for comfort while retaining lateral stiffness it might be useful.
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As a snowboarder... Atomic seem to be hedging their bets with the Backland AT boots.. you can pick old school buckles, or a buckle/cable combination, or a boa.
Interestingly the boa option isn't the lightest option, all other things being equal. Skiers are very conservative, and modern snowboarders tend to be the same,
hence progress on these things tends to be slow.
Buckles seem complicated and prone to breakage, especially as once they're set up I never mess with them.
I'd be happy to trade their easy adjustability for something with less weight/ complexity. I'm not sure if boa is that or not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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2-zone Boa is pretty commonplace in soft boot snowboarding these days. I used it for years and never had issues, likewise with the kids using it - I know others have but those normally came about in extremes. The quick nip-up of tension or release of pressure they offer does allow you to fine-tune the pressure to your own riding that day. That said, looking at just how low down on the boot the winder is sitting, (SB boas are normally mounted on the upper tongue area of the boot and on the side of the cuff) I'm not sure thats not going to foul in heavy snow or be prone to getting whacked about in lift lines...
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Proper chunky cables compared to the ones on cycling/MTBing shoes.
When I was a beginner, the rented boots had what was effectively a boa (not the trademarked one) for the foot part, so it's not completely new.
Not sure whether I'd want the turny knob bit on the side, where you'll clout it on the gondola cabin and snap it off, or on top of the foot/toes where it'll probably get more snow and freeze up. The rented ones were on top of the foot, but basically flush with the shape of the boot.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| Maybe getting old but I see this as a solution to non existing problem. |
may I interest you in disk brakes for your road bike sir?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Our guide had some Scarpa touring boots with the boa system last year. The boa broke on the first day of a traverse. Thankfully he’s a very good skier so could deal with it but it wasn’t a great endorsement of the system for me.
According to that Blister podcast, this is an updated system which is more durable. I still think I’ll wait a season or 2 and see how the dust settles
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No need davidof discs only slow me down  with out getting off topic, in all seriousness I was v early to change to disc on my road and TT bike but there was a clear improvement in braking which sold it for me but I don't see this improving my boots. Just some new gimmick in my honest opinion that will prob become the industry standard with other brands keeping up with the Jones....
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You know it makes sense.
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i got to ski the salomon version last week in la clusaz, the wrap is more of a wrap than on a traditional buckle boot, there is the risk of over tightening, but you can do that on buckles too, durability , i dont think will be an issue, the cable is 1.7mm thick, the unit has a 4:1 gearing on it and it is quicker to replace than any riveted on buckle (and free if you do manage to break it)
i don't see it being right for everyone, it will be a better option for some than a traditional clip boot, it may well help with the "inbetween" lasted feet, but it certainly shouldn't be seen of as one boot covers 2 lasts which thankfully only one manufacturer is currently suggesting (boa thinks it can, but you truly can put a narrower heel into a medium boot and expect the lower to magic the space away)
one thing to think about is that Boa approached 4 brands for this first group and they all said yes, that is a lot of investment in changing molds if they weren't confident it would work
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@CEM, I think the durability issue for us was that we weren’t really in a position to take the boot into a shop because we were on a traverse (yes, we were stopping by resorts but we weren’t really adhering to shop opening hours) and the failure did seem to have more of an effect on how the boot skied than a single buckle failure.
That said, many people won’t find themselves in this situation and maybe the new model will, indeed, be more durable. I’m still giving it a couple of years though
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Arno, get your hands on one of the ski boot versions (not the lighter weight snowboard /shoe ones) it is a brave brand who will say it is indestructible, but it is tough, the cable reel is designed to pop off if the impact is really hard, it then snaps back on
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Agreed. First time I have watched a video from them, will be watching more!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I like the idea of Boa, though I'd like to give it a couple of years first, also I have a Boa system on my very expensive S-Works road bike shoes and that's failed and I can't get replacement parts now.
Anyway below is from the FaceBook WinterSports Technology group, who it has to be said judging by the posts and comments are not great fans of the system.
Kind of funny to think that the two ski boot companies that are clearly out ahead of the other touring ski boot manufacturers (Dynafit Scarpa) have dropped the use of any BOA adjustments on their newest top-level skiing hybrid boots… after years of being the very companies at the forefront of using those newer “lighter” devices. Just as the alpine product-feature-marketing machine is just getting warmed up.
And
BOA 2.0 coming soon?
From an engineering point of view... this is kind of stupid.
If BOA was the orginal closure device….
The “new metal buckle” could easily replace it.
Buckle
+ Lighter, smaller profile, LESS PARTS, better leverage, very difficult to break and they are micro-adjustable.
The device completely clears out of the way for entry and exit. These can be used on any stiffness of shell materials.
BOA
- Bigger, heavier, large profile, no leverage factor, breaks so easy they need to have a direct consumer repair/warranty department, all micro adjustments. Shell needs to be redesigned to allow a softer wrapping over the top of the foot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
I like the idea of Boa, though I'd like to give it a couple of years first, also I have a Boa system on my very expensive S-Works road bike shoes and that's failed and I can't get replacement parts now.
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a lot of bike shoe manu's have or are moving back to laces! it comes around and goes around. My expensive shoes bought a few years back came with laces, it was a bit of niche retro look then.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| t44tomo wrote: |
| a lot of bike shoe manu's have or are moving back to laces! |
Something new to sell to the masses. Laces and rotating chainrings and a chain aren't a great mix in my opinion.
I use Specialized road and MTB shoes with BOA and have zero issues. I have had a BOA dial fail on one occasion on MTB shoes and they are incredibly easy to replace. You simply pop them out. To the original poster with S-Works shoes who couldn't get replacement BOA parts, try contacting BOA or Specialized and they should be able to help you.
I'm keen to try BOA boots as a current S/Pro user. It is impossible to comment on the efficacy of the system based on experience with snow board boots and cycling shoes. As CEM has pointed out it is a radically different system. The forefoot of your boot is also not responsible for holding your foot in place within the boot. The upper buckles, which are still buckles on these new BOA boots, take the majority of the load in that regard. The BOA system is to adjust tension on the forefoot, if you are having to have very tight forefoot buckles or tension in the BOA system then your boots don't fit in the first place!
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| t44tomo wrote: |
| a lot of bike shoe manu's have or are moving back to laces! |
Laces and rotating chainrings and a chain aren't a great mix in my opinion.
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don't worry they all have elasticated lace keepers on the tongue, laces get nowhere near the chainrings.
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
The upper buckles, which are still buckles on these new BOA boots, take the majority of the load in that regard. The BOA system is to adjust tension on the forefoot, if you are having to have very tight forefoot buckles or tension in the BOA system then your boots don't fit in the first place!
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they might actually stop people overtightening the forefoot and making their boots uncomfortable then?
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OK. I’ll ask the thicko question. Why is the BOA system only being used to replace the lower two buckles? Is it because it would prohibit foot entry to the boot if used to replace the upper two buckles?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I presume it relates to the max-torque supported by the current BOA dials. They have been re-designed with the typical tensions used on the fore-foot overlap, not the top two buckles.
I know I also adjust the fore-foot overlap more than the ankle cuff area during a day of skiing. So micro-adjustability in that area more important.
It would probably be possible to replace the top dials with a thicker cable and bulkier dials. There is also the question of space, the dial on the forefoot also does not take up significant room, where as it might on the ankle/shin area.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Phil_w - you beat me to it
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Thu 16-02-23 20:18; edited 1 time in total
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@Weathercam, you do know that the "wintersports technology group" was set up by a guy who got booted out of several groups on facebook for all sorts of reasons, his views are extreme, and mostly "way out there" but hey, if you want to believe you carry on
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You know it makes sense.
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If 4 major worldwide brands have taken the technology it must be well tested and foolproof. I can't see 4 brands taking any risk with a product that is going to break off the boot.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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does anyone even use the bottom 2 buckles other than racers?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, people who don't have a perfect fit on their boot or specific anatomical requirements.
What a stupid comment...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
Yes, people who don't have a perfect fit on their boot or specific anatomical requirements.
What a stupid comment... |
Saying that's a stupid comment is, well, a stupid comment! Especially as it was a question.  Perhaps you could have stopped at your first answer bit?
For me, I only sort of use the bottom 2 buckles, mostly to do the boots up just tight enough to keep the snow out. I don't do them up any tighter otherwise get cramps. Not sure I need to, but if I did the Boa thing might be interesting, though also not sure I like the idea of the power bulge dial thing that much
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So to clarify, you as an experienced skier don't know if anyone , except racers, actually uses the bottom two buckles on their boots....
Really?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
So to clarify, you as an experienced skier don't know if anyone , except racers, actually uses the bottom two buckles on their boots....
Really? |
Are you asking me? Or just continuing to be bit of a dick?
Its a ski boot fastener, nothing to get too worked up about! 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 16-02-23 21:47; edited 3 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BOA comes with a lifetime warranty.
You can order for free on their website. If you want to buy a spare, then you can… or you can just say yours are broke & obtain a free spare 
Quite easy to pop out, but lacing could be a bit of Fitzwilliam. Assuming the lacing on a ski boot would be quite short and probably fiddly to thread.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| stuarth wrote: |
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
So to clarify, you as an experienced skier don't know if anyone , except racers, actually uses the bottom two buckles on their boots....
Really? |
Are you asking me? Or just continuing to be bit of a dick?
Its a ski boot fastener, nothing to get too worked up about! |
Asking you. I'm not the one throwing personal insults about, surely that is the definition of getting 'worked up'.
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I try to avoid doing anything other than very loosely securing the top clips, just to stop them flapping about, as tightening them usually results in the top of my feet going numb for the next six months. Can't say I'm interested in what other people do, but I was told by our eminent, resident bootfitter that it was the other two clips which did the donkey work anyway. Wouldnt know about racers.
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
I'm not the one throwing personal insults about. |
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
What a stupid comment... |
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| ...surely that is the definition of getting 'worked up'. |
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
So to clarify, you as an experienced skier don't know if anyone , except racers, actually uses the bottom two buckles on their boots....
Really? |
I see...
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 16-02-23 21:56; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@NoMapNoCompass,
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I'm not the one throwing personal insults about,
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You are, actually -
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What a stupid comment...
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FAQ
