 Poster: A snowHead
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Ski lift workers to join trains, refineries, docks, airports and teachers in an unlimited general strike (unlimited meaning they can strike at any time if they want). However it is unlikely that all lifts will be closed all of the time but rather occasional closures. Electricity workers will also strike but again it will be more a reduction in output rather than power cuts. Unions want a return to retirement at 60!
Following a national meeting on Thursday, January 12, CGT ski area delegates planned their mobilization. "We have decided to call a strike during the February vacations, because our demands will be better heard during this period," said Eric Becker, general secretary of the ski lifts at Force Ouvrière.
Is it enough to block the ski lovers on all the slopes of France? However, it is unlikely that resort employees will be on strike every day, according to the heads of the two unions. "For the moment, the watchword is to stick to the dates chosen by the inter-union at the national level," said RMC. At this time, only the date of January 31 is announced.
"The lifts will operate normally from the next day: we do not want to weaken the companies already in difficulty," said Eric Becker. "This unlimited notice" aims, according to the FO trade unionist, to respect the legal deadlines to "allow seasonal workers to participate in the next day of mobilization against the pension reform, which should be decided for a day in February".
The CGT is also planning "strong actions" during the Ski World Cup in Courchevel and Méribel on March 16 and 20.
Another sector to join the mobilization: ports and docks. The CGT federation is calling for a 24-hour strike on January 26, without waiting for the date of January 31 decided by the central trade unions at the end of a first day of national mobilization against pension reform.
https://www.liberation.fr/economie/social/reforme-des-retraites-les-syndicats-des-remontees-mecaniques-annoncent-une-greve-en-fevrier-20230123_VALVWM4ER5CNNPJOSMFC76DMIQ/
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof, it does seem to me that they're on a bit of a losing wicket. France is in the same situation as any non-third world country, an ageing and longer-ageing state dependent population.
I don't see how they can argue against a demographic reality.
But, France.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well balls. Right smack in the middle of my ski trip. 
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I'm not against working longer - the average age of retirement in the private sector is already close to 64 years anyway but I'm against the current reform which is a bit of a hold up on people who have worked. So I am thinking of striking on the 31st myself but not for the whole day as I can't afford it. I bet most season workers can't afford to strike either.
The problem is there is very little agreement on the way forward between the dissatisfied. It also shows that if you rely entirely on the state for everything be prepared to be dissapointed when it turns out the politicians blew the money you gave them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| davidof wrote: |
| It also shows that if you rely entirely on the state for everything be prepared to be disappointed |
I would have thought that would be blatantly obvious
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France’s pension reforms strike at a taboo
Quote "Emmanuel Macron’s government estimates that reforms will generate EUR 12 billion in new revenues in 2027. Without an overhaul, it points to an additional government debt burden of EUR 500 billion over 25 years, equivalent to almost one-fifth of France’s nominal GDP in 2022."
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I'm in La Plagne for a week from Saturday. I could cancel (I have cancellation insurance) but I'm not inclined to as I've been looking forward to it for months. Has anyone here ever claimed on their travel insurance for lost skiing days? Was it worth the effort? My policy doesn't mention the amount of compensation for disruption by industrial action, only by weather events, which is £30 per day, so hardly worth claiming! I wonder, is there's a better product out there that will compensate in proportion to the real cost of each lost day as a percentage of your holiday cost? E.g. a 7 day holiday costing £2.5k is approx. £350 per day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@greengriff, I highly doubt every lift in a resort will be closed for a day and finding insurance products willing to pay out pro rata on loss of utility sounds like a recipe for something very specialist and expensive.
Look at it alternately in a 6 day ski trip very occasionally you'll have a day or two closed out due to weather.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
@greengriff, I highly doubt every lift in a resort will be closed for a day and finding insurance products willing to pay out pro rata on loss of utility sounds like a recipe for something very specialist and expensive.
Look at it alternately in a 6 day ski trip very occasionally you'll have a day or two closed out due to weather. |
Yes indeed. Fingers crossed you're right!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @greengriff, I highly doubt every lift in a resort will be closed for a day. |
it will probably just be certain lifts for a couple of hours or a morning. I doubt season workers could afford to strike more.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @greengriff, I highly doubt every lift in a resort will be closed for a day. |
it will probably just be certain lifts for a couple of hours or a morning. I doubt season workers could afford to strike more. |
They don't get strike pay? I have no clue about labour laws in France.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| They don't get strike pay? I have no clue about labour laws in France. |
I'm surprised they're not out on strike for the right to receive strike pay!! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Another reason not to ski in France!!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| greengriff wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| @greengriff, I highly doubt every lift in a resort will be closed for a day. |
it will probably just be certain lifts for a couple of hours or a morning. I doubt season workers could afford to strike more. |
They don't get strike pay? I have no clue about labour laws in France. |
French strike so often, they dont get chance to build up a strike fund.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, that is annoying. It is planned for when we are in Les Arcs. Ironically enough there was a strike last time we were in Les Arcs in Feb 2020. We went to go on the lift in the morning and were confused why everyone was milling about. The lift ops were stood infront of the lift. We heard there was another lift open so walked across the resort to get to it. I think in the end they delayed lift start by an hour - hour and a half. Enough to wee wee everyone off but not ruin the day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just back from 3 Valleys. There was strike action on Thursday that was supposed to affect one of the main link lifts between Meribel & Courchevel. No it sure was ever closed, but the resort app kept us updated on which lifts were open throughout the day.
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Closure policies pretty much never pay out as they are for complete station closure, all pistes. There is always one lift in the resort that can be kept operating, no matter the wind level and using artificial snow and lorries etc to move it if needed
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Will be in Les Arcs next week. A trip 2 years in the making with a large group.
If even a single day is disrupted, I will never ski in France again. They can F off…
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| cardweg wrote: |
| Just back from 3 Valleys. There was strike action on Thursday that was supposed to affect one of the main link lifts between Meribel & Courchevel. No it sure was ever closed, but the resort app kept us updated on which lifts were open throughout the day. |
it was chaos according to reports, you did well to use the app.
| Quote: |
In Meriboule, they did not open Pas du Lac, the access to Saulire via Mottaret, so that we found ourselves in huge queues at Saulire Express, on Meribel, where all the tourists from ValTho who wanted to go to 'in Courchevel to amortize their 3V package found themselves...  |
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| Mike Bennett wrote: |
| Closure policies pretty much never pay out as they are for complete station closure, all pistes. There is always one lift in the resort that can be kept operating, no matter the wind level and using artificial snow and lorries etc to move it if needed |
I remember a week, many years ago, sometime in the 80s, when the lifts at Tignes were shut down progressively due to high winds in the middle of a snowfall and very high winds. The snowflakes were incredibly light, and where I could ski there was at least knee high powder, even on piste. In those days I could not normally ski in powder - but I could on that stuff, it was like skiing on springs. Fantastic. I thought I had become an off-piste skier, only to have a rude awakening when I tried leaving the pistes in more normal conditions.
Anyway, eventually they closed even the "always open" lift. So it can happen!
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| Quote: |
it will probably just be certain lifts for a couple of hours or a morning. I doubt season workers could afford to strike more.
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If this article from the telegraph is to be believed then you'd be right: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/advice/how-strikes-france-will-affect-ski-holiday-everything-need/
"The first strike, which took place last week, caused so little disruption that skiers didn’t even notice it was on."
"Last week’s strike, on January 19, caused no disruption with three lift operators in Courchevel and four in Les Menuires, taking part, said Olivier Desaulty, director of Les 3 Vallées, the country’s biggest ski area."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@greengriff, would your "cancellation insurance" pay out in this case, i.e. If you chose not to go?
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You’ve got to love the French, completely detached from reality…….love the country but a compete basket case in economic terms. Do they not realise that people are living a lot more than they used to at a lot larger cost to the public purse so you need to generate more cash?
Not that the public in the uk are much brighter
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It is ironic that when the UK is starting to discuss bringing forward age 68 as the State Pension age, that the French are striking about moving from 60 to 62.
Their life expectancy isn't going to be any lower than in the UK and the economies are similar sizes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@JDL65, i think the phrase is “entitled”
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| JDL65 wrote: |
It is ironic that when the UK is starting to discuss bringing forward age 68 as the State Pension age, that the French are striking about moving from 60 to 62.
Their life expectancy isn't going to be any lower than in the UK and the economies are similar sizes. |
The minimum retirement age is already at 62 for the "general" retirement regime. However you cannot claim a full pension until you are 67 with 42 years of contributions. The plan is to increase the number of years of contributions to 44 and the minimum retirement age to 64. President Macron says the system is in deficit - however his reform also proposes large increases for people who are already retired. Which begs the question, if the system is in deficit why the big increase for the already retired, who probably did retire at 60 or earlier? Maybe because Macron's core vote is the already retired? So basically people are being asked to work longer (which I agree with) but also pay more for the already retired. This at a time where life expectency across much of the west is dropping.
One of the issues is post 55 employment rates. Not enough over 55 are working. Whether simply raising the minimum retirement age will address the underlying problems is another question, but I guess it will mean the oldies have to wait longer to receive their pensions.
It is difficult to make a comparison between the UK and France. Social security contributions is much higher than the UK because the pension is a SERPS type scheme but this also makes it financially difficult for the French to make any additional private provision. The state consumes about 58% of GDP, around 10 points higher than the UK although judging by the latest news from GB this gap will close.
It was Mitterand who reduced the retirement age from 65 to 60 - as a massive bribe for votes. Even so, he only just scraped a win. The French state has been trying to back pedal ever since Mitterand left office. Mitterand thought it would create jobs (along with the 35 hour week), in fact France suffered higher structural unemployment than the other G7 economies.
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You know it makes sense.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| I'm in La Plagne for a week from Saturday. I could cancel (I have cancellation insurance) .... |
| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @greengriff, would your "cancellation insurance" pay out in this case, i.e. If you chose not to go? |
I would think not. Cancellation insurance usually only covers cancellation by the provider, not by the insured. (Apart possibly for some specified circumstances, like death of a very close relative).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davidof, interesting analysis. Thanks.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| lynnecha wrote: |
| @davidof, interesting analysis. Thanks. |
and I appreciate that the triple lock is going to cost British tax payers a lot of money too.
La Havre refinery is on strike - initially for 48 hours but causing panic buying in the north. Make sure to fill up before crossing the channel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks. We’re setting off next week and I was a bit concerned about availability
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks @davidof, think the jerry can is going to be in the boot then.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@davidof, This exactly...
President Macron says the system is in deficit - however his reform also proposes large increases for people who are already retired. Which begs the question, if the system is in deficit why the big increase for the already retired, who probably did retire at 60 or earlier? Maybe because Macron's core vote is the already retired? So basically people are being asked to work longer (which I agree with) but also pay more for the already retired. This at a time where life expectency across much of the west is dropping.
Same thing happening in the UK. Triple lock being funded by younger workers who won't be retiring at the same age as current pensioners and may well face a means tested pension if/when they get it at all.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We came back yesterday, I did think we might have trouble with fuel but only saw one sign saying that one station had no diesel. Nobody was queuing in any we passed but might be different in off motorway ones which are obviously cheaper.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is this strike happening tomorrow? Will tbe lifts be working?
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| Csb123 wrote: |
| Is this strike happening tomorrow? Will tbe lifts be working? |
I think the strike is happening, but will have minimal impact so apparently may not even be noticed by skiers
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@Csb123, In Tignes the buses will finish in the late evening rather than running all night and there will be no Avalanche Bulletin from Meteo France, other than that no notified issues.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As I am glad they’re saying and as I thought disruption in val will effectively be zero.
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