![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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Hello SHers, we normally drive to France as very small children, ski bags and airports on transfer days is my idea of hell.
Going to Val Gardena, and Google maps is routing me through Germany. Any stopoffs to recommend to overnight each way with small kids? Cheap hotels or Air BnBs, as with the required stops for children, rest and driver changes, safest to overnight the drive each way, I think. I dislike driving through the night.
Car is a 4x4 on proper winter tyres so no issues there, apart from potentially hilarious fuel consumption.
Frankly the cost of flights, ski hire, transfers to and from each airport, car rental Italy will probably be around the same as Eurotunnel, fuel and cheap overnights. And even if our car costs more, it will be a nicer, if longer, trip.
So all recommendations/experiences gratefully received, with thanks.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nothing to add, as I'm driving to Val Cenis at Easter, but planning a similar trip to yours for next season, so will follow with interest.
I'm sure the collective will give loads of useful info.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The SH collective brain helped me my first time to the French Alps many years ago, a trip that is now routine! Some great experience on here.
I just costed up flying, including taxis, car rental, ski hire etc. Even driving our not very economical 4x4, Eurotunnel tickets, overnight stops and tolls, it is coming out at around £1000 cheaper to drive.
And will be way less hellish than the Ryanair Stansted (surely the worst airline and airport combination other than Aeroflot out of somewhere in Siberia) flights we have booked to Verona. They are transferable to another high season destination, thankfully.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I put this into ViaMichelin and from Eurotunnel Calais it recommends the Autoroute des Anglais to Châlons-en-Champagne, then east to Strasbourg and Stuttgart, then SE to Innsbruck. Drive time 11h40m and cost €410.72 including €69.90 of motorway tolls, 1,172kms.
There's a more southerly route from Châlons via Basle and Zurich (12h3m / +24min), or a more northerly route from Calais via Cologne (12h49m / + 69min).
Is that what GMaps says as well? I ask because the route preference is obviously going to affect recommendations somewhat, especially if you plan to stop overnight.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 22-01-23 23:05; edited 2 times in total
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ViaMichelin. The first thing I didn't know about - thanks. Will check it out. That first route sounds good.
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LaForet wrote: |
I put this into ViaMichelin and from Eurotunnel Clais it recommends the Autoroute des Anglais to Châlons-en-Champagne, then east to Strasbourg and Stuttgart, then SE to Innsbruck. Drive time 11h40m and cost €410.72 including €69.90 of motorway tolls, 1,172kms.
There's a more southerly route from Châlons via Basle and Zurich (12h3m), or a more northerly route from Calais via Cologne (12h49m).
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Be aware that if you drive through Switzerland on the Swiss motorways you will need a vignette which costs CHF40!
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You could void French tolls & go via Belgium & Luxembourg. Make sure to fill up on cheap fuel in Lux. for bigger savings!
I am sure something similar was asked not so long ago, so use the search function?
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@Harry Flashman, once you've decided which route you'll be taking and which area you'll be looking for an overnight stop in then people can offer accommodation suggestions for the stop. e.g if you were going through Alsace I'd recommend staying in the beautiful village of Eguisheim near Colmar.
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Thank you all - so helpful. Going to play with routes and then come back. Quite looking forward to the trip now!
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Keen to see how this plays out. Currently in MdC and our plane journey in was farcical!
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Harry Flashman wrote: |
ViaMichelin. The first thing I didn't know about - thanks. Will check it out. That first route sounds good. |
It's very useful isn't it and one that seems to hold very good data in giving accurate overview.
If you've not seen the section about car type etc already, that's worth adding your specs to and squeeze the accuracy more around your circumstances, tailoring as it does fuel consumption etc.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Harry Flashman wrote: |
The SH collective brain helped me my first time to the French Alps many years ago, a trip that is now routine! Some great experience on here.
I just costed up flying, including taxis, car rental, ski hire etc. Even driving our not very economical 4x4, Eurotunnel tickets, overnight stops and tolls, it is coming out at around £1000 cheaper to drive.
And will be way less hellish than the Ryanair Stansted (surely the worst airline and airport combination other than Aeroflot out of somewhere in Siberia) flights we have booked to Verona. They are transferable to another high season destination, thankfully. |
Pretty sure that our trip this year is coming in at over £1000 cheaper to drive too. Even with overnight hotel at both ends of the week.
That pretty much covers the 'on hill' lunch and coffee stops...
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If you go the Luxemburg route - I'll be heading that way for the pre and birthday bashed - there's a bunch of hotels at Thionville just as you leave Luxembourg, we've stayed there several times, a few restaurants in walking distance as well.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You know it makes sense.
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I always take a route via Luxembourg to fill up with cheaper fuel (A25,E42,E411,E25) then across to Karlsruhe ( short stretch of non motorway, but now all dual carriageway). Further south its a choice between turning S at Ulm and over the Fernpasse into Austria, or going further E to Munich to stay on Autobahns all the way. you'll need to buy a vignette to use Austrian motorways. Toll to pay for the Brenner Pass. Done this route many times, summer and winter.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We are halfway there in our motorhome as I write, a few kms north of Basel. We came the Swiss route because of the hassle of taking a 4.5t vehicle through Austria, plus I like Switzerland better. Prior to that came via Belgium (less potholes than last trip?) and Lux, only heavy traffic so far was around Lux city.
Cheap/free overnight stop for us but taking 3 to 4 days each way out of an 8 week trip.
Diesel in Luxembourg was only a little cheaper than Germany, 164 v 176.
Had 9 inches of snow overnight in Saarland.
ps heading to Passo Tonale and the Brenta Dolomites.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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I've done this a couple of times in a pick up.
Deffo do as @dawma, and @andy n netty, say and use the Luxembourg route for your diesel.
You'll need a vignette to drive in Austria - not expensive tbh and you can buy them from a petrol station before you leave Germany somewhere near the border.
We have stayed in Stuttgart to break the journey up, but if we were doing it again we'd go Munich I think, just to mix it up a bit.
Watch out for Belgian drivers; they're nut cases.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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LukeRibs wrote: |
Watch out for Belgian drivers; they're nut cases. |
Watch out especially for any elderly Belgian car drivers, Belgium only introduced compulsory practical driving tests in 1977!
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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True about the Belgians. Worst place for them would be the E40 between Gent and Brussels and the Brussels ring.
Too many choices over routes, and imho, there's not a lot in it between them all. Via Luxembourg is the logical choice. After that, between the Karlsruhe A5/A8 junction and Brenner Pass, it doesn't matter whether you go via Munich+Kufstein (feels like the wrong way), the Fernpass, or via Bregenz+Arlberg (costs an extra tenner in tolls), the time is basically the same. Comes down to what the weather and traffic is doing on the day. If it's dumping then avoid the pass and stick to the fully autobahn routes.
On a Friday evening I'd normally go via Karlsruhe+Munich (rush hour traffic would ease for me basically from about Karlsruhe). On a Sunday I'd often go back via Bregenz. Less stress at the expense of an extra toll.
Oh and as for places to stop off en route, in either direction, it really depends on what time you leave. Crack of sparrowfart ferry/tunnel and break up the journey? or after work Friday, and cheap hotel after an hour or so on the continental mainland?
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You need to Login to know who's really who.
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OK, everyone - looks like the route will be via Strasbourg, Stuttgart, Innsbruck.
Thinking a stop somewhere near Strasbourg. Cheap F1 hotel probably the way forwards with two small children who will need to sleep. But any tips welcome!
Have the AA European driving kit which should deal with all legal issues, car has headlamps that self adjust for driving on the right, snow tyres etc. Have looked at the RAC website for driving in Germany and Austria, but any quirks would be good to know about from SHers with prior experience.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’m starting to wish I did this. It’s virtually impossible to get winter tyres in Italy. My only other recommendation is to buy the Emovis tag that sticks to your windscreen. I have one for France and one for Spain stuck either side of my rear view mirror. It automatically charges for the toll roads but the best bit is you don’t stop and mess around with cash or credit card and just drive straight through. I did drive to the Dolomites in my twenties with a couple of friends on a rock climbing trip. Did it non stop and I think it took about 24 hours. It’s a long drive. Personally I’d rather fly now. We did it last year with a seven and four year old and took a double buggy which was great for the airport. Was actually quite easy apart from the lack of winter tyres on the hire car.
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there is the hotel Schenk in Permasens just off the route clean and relatively cheap and it has an Italian restaurant next door the hotels in Thionville are good value as well and there you get the ubiquitous Buffalo Grills..remeber to not fill up in Italy as fuel is expensive there and you need an austrian road pernit ..you might get stopped and fined otherwise but I always go via Stuttgart and Ulm never had any problems
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Harry Flashman wrote: |
OK, everyone - looks like the route will be via Strasbourg, Stuttgart, Innsbruck.
Thinking a stop somewhere near Strasbourg. Cheap F1 hotel probably the way forwards with two small children who will need to sleep. But any tips welcome!
Have the AA European driving kit which should deal with all legal issues, car has headlamps that self adjust for driving on the right, snow tyres etc. Have looked at the RAC website for driving in Germany and Austria, but any quirks would be good to know about from SHers with prior experience. |
Not sure of your exact route, but there's an F1 at Merlebach a bit before Strasbourg, just off the A4 where the autoroute splits to go into the Saarland. Very basic but did the job for €29 a few times when I've passed by!
BTW, I can't believe that driving all that way will be cheaper & less hassle than a cheap flight to Italy and cheap car hire up to resort.
We did Verona with Ryanair from Manchester last Feb HT Sat-Sat, flights were £8pp each way (before extras) and minimal hassle. Booked a car for just over £100 for the week. The nice lady at Alamo asked if we were going skiing and gave us a brand new Golf mk8 2.0 diesel with winter tyres, I nearly kissed her!
Just did STN to Tenerife with Ryanair at Xmas on the Saturday after the kids break up. No real issues other than a 15min queue for security and similar at Burger King, but that's less than you prob have to wait at Eurotunnel.
And even more bemused about how you got a free flight change with Ryanair??
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Sat 28-01-23 10:47; edited 1 time in total
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On the fuel usage front I have done the drive in 3 different vehicles and it was the 4x4 kuga that got the best efficiency and the 0.9l dacia that got the worst efficiency.
Dacia is only 5 gears so sitting at 85mph on the French motorways was over 4k revs in 5th and was only getting 250miles to a tank where the kuga sits at 2.5k revs and was getting 510 miles to the tank even through they both have the same tank.
Kuga took 150l to go from London- cham - London
Dacia took 230l to go the same route
A3 took 180l to go same route (may have gone a bit faster in this car)
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@luigi, The kids (teenagers at the time) all had their own kit, one had a veritable quiver. I'd have two ski boxes on the roof. It would work out around £700 door to door return back then. Considerably cheaper than flights, transfers and an overnight at Gatwick at the time.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You know it makes sense.
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Calculate from UK to run low on fuel in Luxembourg to maximize the saving. And calculate the diversion to see if it is at all worth it.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
Dacia is only 5 gears so sitting at 85mph on the French motorways
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you were fortunate not to have fines to add to the cost.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Poster: A snowHead
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I asked a similar question last year and did the drive a few weeks ago, info here
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=161268
on the way back we stayed at the Radisson blu nr Karlsruhe, on way out at OY Mittelberg
np getting to Luxembourg from SW England on full tank, still plenty left in Volvo XC60
we'd do the same route again, no French tolls and no hassle, just be careful with timings between Stuggart/Karslruhe as it was very busy but we travelled midweek.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) You need to Login to know who's really who.
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richb67 wrote: |
I asked a similar question last year and did the drive a few weeks ago, info here
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=161268
on the way back we stayed at the Radisson blu nr Karlsruhe, on way out at OY Mittelberg
np getting to Luxembourg from SW England on full tank, still plenty left in Volvo XC60
we'd do the same route again, no French tolls and no hassle, just be careful with timings between Stuggart/Karslruhe as it was very busy but we travelled midweek. |
Yeah the A8 from Karlsruhe in the Stuttgart direction is often slow up until Pforzheim. They have been doing a massive construction project in Pforzheim for years now.
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![](templates/subSilver/images/full_size.gif) Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Quote: |
Always watch your mirrors because no matter how fast you are going, there will be someone coming up behind you before long
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My best was in a taxi at 200km/h on the Frankfurt-Darmstadt stretch. That's the dead straight one where AutoUnion used to do their speed tests. A bloke on a motorbike came steaming past us, not wearing leathers, just jeans, t-shirt and a skid lid.
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Yeah the A8 from Karlsruhe in the Stuttgart direction is often slow up until Pforzheim.
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It's also a steep hill going up from the A5 junction on to the A8, so need lane discipline cos 1 lane is doing 120 and the other about 40, with trucks trying to move over a lane.
Looked on Google the other day and the proper narrow bit looks like it's finally being re-done. Not been that way for 3 years, but I was half contemplating risking that way for the BB.
Either way, I check the "verkehrsinformation" on adac.de before setting off to see what traffic jams (stau) there are or what roadworks (baustellen) are ongoing. Least I have numerous options going northwest to southeast, rather than just west to east.
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andy wrote: |
Quote: |
Always watch your mirrors because no matter how fast you are going, there will be someone coming up behind you before long
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My best was in a taxi at 200km/h on the Frankfurt-Darmstadt stretch. That's the dead straight one where AutoUnion used to do their speed tests. A bloke on a motorbike came steaming past us, not wearing leathers, just jeans, t-shirt and a skid lid.
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Many years ago I used to work in Frankfurt quite regularly. The taxi drivers from the airport always used to ask if I wanted them to take the 'highway' and anything from 160km/h-200km/h seemed to be normal taxi speed depending on how old their yellow E class was. Sounds like a brave biker though. Somewhere on you tube there is a video of a biker and an Audi RS6 battling it out at 300km/h on an autobahn. The biker was running out of speed towards the top end though !
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Yeah the A8 from Karlsruhe in the Stuttgart direction is often slow up until Pforzheim.
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It's also a steep hill going up from the A5 junction on to the A8, so need lane discipline cos 1 lane is doing 120 and the other about 40, with trucks trying to move over a lane.
Looked on Google the other day and the proper narrow bit looks like it's finally being re-done. Not been that way for 3 years, but I was half contemplating risking that way for the BB.
Either way, I check the "verkehrsinformation" on adac.de before setting off to see what traffic jams (stau) there are or what roadworks (baustellen) are ongoing. Least I have numerous options going northwest to southeast, rather than just west to east.[/quote]
I can't imagine what the people who live in Pforzheim make of all this, it used to be an attractive town with the motorway running through mostly forest which is now destroyed with concrete structures everywhere in sight.
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