 Poster: A snowHead
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Wondered what others thought. I purchased one before Christmas, primarily on my doctors recommendation. I have Asthma, Plantar fasciitis, and I do cycle, but after Covid and symptoms worsening on the Asthma front, the doc suggested indoor and warmer temps over winter. I have. Schwinn IC8, and it connects up rather like a peloton to an online training app JRNY. Both are excellent with the app being free for one year.
I know that many professional skiers utilise cycling in the summer months especially, but who uses a stationary cycle? Do you favour sprints or out of the saddle hill climbs to build power and strength? Both are probably good, but if anyone has experience I would like to know. Also it’s an exercise thread as opposed to a recovery from injury post, so a change.( Not suggesting such posts are not totally valid!)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@twoodwar,
Like all fitness workouts mix it up. Learn what your zones are and do zone 2 for endurance and short zone 4 for vo2max.
Everyone is doing 80/20 zone 2/4 at the moment and it seems to work.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Personally, I think stationary cycling is a good, low impact way of getting fit for skiing. You can mix in Hill Climbs to build leg strength.
I would also do Lunges (Front/Side/Back/Jumping); Squats (normal and jumping) and sitting against a wall.
Exercising at the correct level is good for Asthma.
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@Old Fartbag, cheers, I have always been a jogger, but the PF, put paid to that. Forgetting all jumping re PF.
Totally agree with exercise and Asthma. I have had it since 10 years old, ( now 65). It was just that Covid transformed totally well controlled Asthma into one which has required steroids this summer. Now on a different inhaler and the bike is doing the trick. Now blowing 500 plus on peak flow if familiar, which is circa 40 years old levels.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@stewart woodward, enlighten me re zones. Straight over my head 
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@twoodwar, It's the difference between maintaining a decent level of overall fitness, which is probably what you want, and "training" with an intent to improve specific functionality. He's talking about combining two types of exercises, one intended to improve the maximum strength a muscle can give and the other to enable it to perform for longer.
Gyms are full of geeks following the latest trends, many of which coincidentally involve spending lots of money of special kit.
@Old Fartbag, is closer to my view on this, with lunges and squats designed to train the thigh muscles, in which they do work very well, in my own experience, with enough weight ( I usually aim for around 80-100kg if I'm trying to build strength). Not keen on the idea of jumping them though, not with my knees anyway 
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
@Old Fartbag, is closer to my view on this, with lunges and squats designed to train the thigh muscles, in which they do work very well, in my own experience, with enough weight ( I usually aim for around 80-100kg if I'm trying to build strength). Not keen on the idea of jumping them though, not with my knees anyway |
My fitness goals have changed post back op and now in 60s. I look for reasonable cardio fitness (low impact) and practical strength, using body weight/callisthenics where possible.
FWIW. I don't use weights for lunges/jumping lunges etc much in the style of Leg Blasters: https://sawback.com/blog/leg-blasters/
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Mine isn't a scientific view of it, but cycled all my life really, and not indoor use but extrapolated from outside.
Consistent hard climbing seems to build leg fitness and muscle the most, that's over anything else.
Out with son, we both ride downhill mtb but for everything and old models weigh about 18/19 kg which has to be pulled along, improves fitness quickly.
We've a short circuit of about 1 mile that we call VO2 max as it's just wind it up to the top about 400 mtrs, then along the ridge and down another road jumping the speed humps  another 400 mtrs along the flat then into the climb again. Tortuous but effective, about six laps usually.
We'll cycle about 15 miles off road to include both up and down elements roughly in balance as another set of riding, all surrey hills mtb tracks
Also with a little less elevation change, about 35 miles in a loop out from home (derived from fitting in most distance during covid lockdown) without getting busted for being out of bounds in those controlled times. This one had a climb roughly every 7 miles that significantly ramped up the effort for about 1/2 mile.
All resulted in bigger legs and decreased waist, but both really enjoy doing it.
Those climbs though are key in my view.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@twoodwar, I reckon cycling indoors at a sustained high intensity is one of the very best things you can do for skiing and for cycling! Cycling outdoors is good too but you can make stationary cycling more intensive (not intervals) and it is in a controlled environment so you can measure your performance. Combine this with squats, leg presses, leg curls, lunges, core exercises, and springing from side to side and you will dial it on the slopes!
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| JayDub wrote: |
| @twoodwar, Cycling outdoors is good too but you can make stationary cycling more intensive (not intervals) |
It's the rest intervals I need at the top of the hill else I'll keel over  just rolling it along after a steep climb is fine.
I know what you mean, just very unscientific with my approach.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ski3, it will sort you out though! Cut the rest intervals and crank up the resistance, higher intensity for less time is better than intervals over a longer time.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks all. I also have cycled all my life, and am from Sheffield, despite 40 plus years in Liverpool. Hills are where I used to be. Many thanks for all replies. I have found the main difference with stationary cycling is there is no downhill 
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Although personal trainers have something of a reputation and I myself used to be very critical of how useful their advice could be - I’d recommend joining a gym and getting some tailored advice from a good PT. Doesn’t have to be every week, just a few PT sessions in between your own exercise work. For me this came about because while I was generally fit and worked out regularly, I still had problems hiking steep uphill routes in the summer. Turned out I was fine on the aerobic side but wasn’t doing a diverse enough range of exercises to build up all the muscles I needed. I also have a bad back and needed some tailored mobility exercises as well. The PT sorted all this out over five sessions interleaved with my own workouts. I now have the odd session with him just to keep things under review. Cycling is part of the programme but I’ve added a wide range of other short exercises as well, some of which are easy to do at home too.
I got lots of advice from people trying to be helpful but realised what worked for them wasn’t necessarily going to work for me, and might even be counterproductive. In general what people said was right, but although what I did myself was often similar, the specifics were different.
I think I’d been put off PTs because at my previous gym (Virgin) they were all self-employed and spent a lot of time prowling the floor engaging in insincere chats with people with the aim of persuading customers to engage them. But at my current, smaller gym (Places Leisure) they’re partly salaried and partly fee-based, and seem to be much less pushy, plus more consultative about what you want to achieve.
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You know it makes sense.
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| JayDub wrote: |
| @ski3, it will sort you out though! Cut the rest intervals and crank up the resistance, higher intensity for less time is better than intervals over a longer time. |
Ooh I've definitely got resistance all right nuance in bike type for those unfamiliar with this, Dowhill bike at 19kg straight 9 speed gearset, single ring front with no option to take cadence when climbing by using "granny" ring, it's either torque it out or get off and push. Runs knobbly tyres too, it's basically full of resistance whether going down, up or flat. I'm definitely out of immediate power at hill top and need some gap to bring it back, we don't ordinarily stop, just keep at it until finishing, and why the choice of bike. We could be much more intense during restrictions and pack in very high energy usage without requiring huge distance.
Works really well for ski muscles in my view, that's high torque lower cadence as opposed to roady friends preference for optimum cadence and strict adherence to that.
The speed the carbons (carbon framed roadies) come past us when we're on mixed route outstrips us by far while we're pushing hard on the flat to maintain any speed, it's comical but each of us with a different target.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@LaForet, have been to gyms, and tried them over the years. I pretty much hate them. I have settled for running,( not now while PF is here), cycling, both on road and stationary, and any exercises using my own body weight. I simply want to be lung fit, and push exercise to help skiing , and overall general fitness. I suspect if I do I will be ahead of 99% of people my age
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ski3 wrote: |
| JayDub wrote: |
| @ski3, it will sort you out though! Cut the rest intervals and crank up the resistance, higher intensity for less time is better than intervals over a longer time. |
Ooh I've definitely got resistance all right nuance in bike type for those unfamiliar with this, Dowhill bike at 19kg straight 9 speed gearset, single ring front with no option to take cadence when climbing by using "granny" ring, it's either torque it out or get off and push. Runs knobbly tyres too, it's basically full of resistance whether going down, up or flat. I'm definitely out of immediate power at hill top and need some gap to bring it back, we don't ordinarily stop, just keep at it until finishing, and why the choice of bike. We could be much more intense during restrictions and pack in very high energy usage without requiring huge distance.
Works really well for ski muscles in my view, that's high torque lower cadence as opposed to roady friends preference for optimum cadence and strict adherence to that.
The speed the carbons (carbon framed roadies) come past us when we're on mixed route outstrips us by far while we're pushing hard on the flat to maintain any speed, it's comical but each of us with a different target. |
I think I'm the same, high force, low velocity, I see lots of cyclists that seem, in my eyes to be in too low gear, pedalling like mad for the speed they are going? On the concept 2 rowing machines, I always got my best times by setting resistance to maximum (the software calculates for this)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Old Fartbag, good point, but there are exercises for balance/proprioception that don't require any kit
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Apologies for thread drift @twoodwar, as i was trying to illustrate through pattern of exercise what I felt was effective.
To put it more succinctly, the climb at lower cadence/high torque for whatever the hills give me appear over longer term (3 years or so) seem to build muscle and improve aerobic performance for my intended use. I'm not competing but want to be broadly fit for skiing and any other sport I choose to enjoy.
It amuses me that starting to climb I get successively lungs and heart rate increase chiming in at different points depending apon gradient etc as the call for oxygen goes out from tbe muscles.
Agree with you, in that anyone completing anything in the way of regular exercise is going to be ahead of the lethargic. I do enjoy the process, dont feel its a chore but also funded by the downhill and changing views i get.
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twoodwar, lots of sensible stuff about the actual exercise, but worth considering the environment.
Where is your bike? How to maintain interest?
Cycling outside is easy and fun, with lots of interesting things to see and the continual concern of staying safe.
It all keeps you alert and motivated.
But inside? So easy to find excuses to stop.
My exercise bike is in a garage, alongwith a rowing machine.
I keep going with loud music. I revived an old CD player, amp and speakers from the attic and blast out heavy rock.
(Have thought about a large screen TV as well, but can't really justify . . . )
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My initial efforts to get fit for skiing wete to avoid aching muscles and I found that running just two times in the week before a ski trip was making my legs ache at the time but massively reduced the aching after skiing.
The running expanded into regular 5k runs in the months before a trip but I have just been reading on another thread how running can actually reduce muscle mass 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| twoodwar wrote: |
| @LaForet, have been to gyms, and tried them over the years. I pretty much hate them. I have settled for running,( not now while PF is here), cycling, both on road and stationary, and any exercises using my own body weight. I simply want to be lung fit, and push exercise to help skiing , and overall general fitness. I suspect if I do I will be ahead of 99% of people my age |
Cycling is excellent for heart/lung fit. As it doesn’t over do the muscles and joints in the process. In fact, gentle spinning is known to help heal joint issues.
But cycling indoors can get boring fast. So get one of those apps to distract yourself as you hammer away on the stationary bike.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I love cycling on the roads (particularly in the Haut Languedoc) but where I live in East Sussex the roads are a collection of very dangerous potholes linked by the occasional piece of Tarmac, you also have lots of cars to deal with on the A roads - the roads are diabolically dangerous. It is impossible to relax and cycle properly where I live so personally I find a static bike wonderful for fitness. I have been using them in the winter for over 20 years, they are also very useful for training for cycling up 16km Cols, interval training whilst dodging potholes and Range Rovers in the dark is just not the one for me. If I lived in The Lakes or Yorkshire then it would be very different.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Agree @JayDub, regarding traffic/road conditions. Me a lifelong motorcycle rider, skier, boarder + other miscellaneous stuff, and feel riding on the road can be one of the most exposed to danger things I do.
I built up an old steel frame road bike, even with 700c 38mm tyres it just shakes the hell out of me on roads around here. I grew up on road bikes too, it seems much worse for road imperfections now though.
Riding suspension bikes takes care of that mainly and provides the resistance mentioned above to boot. We have gradually got more shared access around here though to let us lace together quite a long route in compact area. Closure of Hammersmith Bridge, covid restricted cut to through traffic in Richmond Park (allows more free use for cycles) along with new cycle route near railways, mileage along the Thames etc, and we've a fair network going locally to enjoy. The big tyres and frameset facilitate a go at anything without concern too.
We've made it fit and especially throughout covid times, determined to come out fitter than went in. All pretty positive for us so far, just got stuck in to make the most of what we could find.
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@ski3, when I do go on the 'roads' in East Sussex I dash into the lanes (dirt tracks) on an MTB with front suspension, my lovely 40 year old steel Colnago with 23mm tyres on old Mavic wheels will not last 100m - it has not been on the roads here for two years!
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You know it makes sense.
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There's some very nice frames about isn't there@JayDub, as I talk to some owners around here out and about, that's more usually Richmond park as it has a 7.5 mile lap that's very well used for road interested cyclists. Surface there appears acceptable to narrow race tyres it seems. Those carbon frame bikes, especially a TT with enclosed rear wheel make significant noise though through surface resonance, they sound like a car approaching from behind me and can hear them quite a way before they pass.
The classic steel frames are all but silent though, usually more out as season warms toward spring/summer.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@abc, On JRNY app, similar to peloton. The instructions to do more from my iPad, do surprisingly actually work, plus I can cycle in many of the worlds most scenic places.
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Poster: A snowHead
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My take on ski fitness (for recreational lift-served skiing) is that you should have 4 main components:
1. General fitness so that being out exercising for several hours a day (albeit with a lot of rest on lifts) is not a complete shock. This could be aerobic training (such as a stationary bike), or just regular activity (e.g. hill walks, or a manual job). As good a way to judge this as any is to meet or exceed 150 'activity minutes' per week consistently for maybe 2 months prior to skiing
2. Balance, as mentioned above
3. Core strength. Doesn't need to be excessive, but maybe regular planks and bridges
4. Leg strength that's close to what you need for skiing. A key point is that cycling uses only concentric contractions, but skiing uses eccentric contractions (resisting a force - gravity) and isometric (muscle stays the same length. If I've only been doing concentric activity before skiing, my legs get a huge shock with dealing with eccentric and isometric activity. As a rule of thumb, short turns involve a lot of eccentric activity, while longer turns are more isometric. I prefer the former, and to prepare for eccentric activity I'll do leg blaster sets and plyometric exercises for about 4 weeks before skiing. I get killer DOMS after the first leg blaster session, but then it's all fine after that. For isometric activity, the obvious is the classic wall sits
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