Stereotypes

A snowHead

I am currently doing my A-Levels and am researching whether there are any stereotypes between skiers and snowboarders, and does the media to anything to re-enforce or contradict them.

Through the research that i have done, looking at old magazine articles, focus groups with skiers and snowboarders, and non skiers/snowboarders i have found that when snowboarding first become popular there was anymosity between skiers and boarders, as skiers thought they were 'punky young kids' just pushing in and not caring about other piste users, but over time these stereotypes have practically disappeared, and the sports are coming together, with help from the freestyle side of each sport with backcountry and slopestyle bringing in similar lines and tricks, and with them both being in the winter olympics.

Sorry for the short essay, and i hope it didnt bore you too much, and i would be grateful for any thoughts of feelings people have on thius subject.

Do you still find snowboarders have 'something' against you, or even the other way round. and do you feel the media; tv, newspapers, magazines, vids have any help in enlarging or deflating any stereotype

Thanks once more
Sam

A snowHead

sambmx, welcome to snowHead

No idea - I try not to stereotype anyone, but I have wondered why all sociologists wear leggings. However, I'm a skier that has skied with several boarders and have found the "rivalry" to be like that between Welsh and English rugby fans - all in good fun.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

sambmx, I used to be a bit of a board-ophobe. I think it stemmed from them seeming to swoosh up behind me when I was a beginner, making me nervous: that and the fact that they were mainly younger and better-looking! I don't have many problems now though, and feel rather sorry for them at times because they're slower (in the main)! On the other hand, for a similar level of ability, I suspect they get more fun in the powder. If I have a remaining gripe, it is that I think, on average, boarders bring more snow down the mountain with them than skiers, but I'm sure that will attract robust denials. On the whole, I think there's much more mutual understanding between skiers and boarders than there used to be. Sites like this help.

Hope that helps, and good luck with the A-levels.

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Hi sambmx, welcome to snowHeads!

Some of my best friends are boarders wink

Seriously, personally I don't have any rivalry with boarders - we have a mixed group of friends who either ski or board, no rivalry. My OH, a skier, has learnt to board.

As far as I'm concerned its just gentle p1sstaking along the lines of boarders always sat down in the middle of the piste. Although some of those N American ones do seem to say 'Dude' a bit too much wink

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

It was the same with mountain bikers and roadies.

There's much more mutual respect now.

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baggy trousers, clouds of odd smelling smoke, camo gear, stormtrooper helmets, hill frogs, sitting down in the middle of pistes, fear of flat bits - stereotypes for sure and all of them negative.

As cathy said, just a bit of gentle mickey taking really.

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WOAH, thats more of a responce than i expected in such a short while!!! haha
thanks a lot.

all of your points back up what i have found which is great. I think the way that hyweljenkins, put it, its like the english and welsh fans, just harmless banter, which ive been part of enough times, with my nextdoor neighbours being welsh, and the dad my rugby coach for 10yrs!ha. and marc gledhill, putting it in context with mtb and roadies, which i can understand as well, riding a bmx, or 'kids bike' as it is commonly refered to by my MTB mates.Just more mutual respect.

Feel free to post your opinions etc etc, all of it is a great help

Thanks again
Sam

After all it is free

Skiers -v- boarders . . . stereotypes well yes, there always will be and long may it last since it drives development of equipment, of clothing, of skills, all of which ultimately filter between the sports making it better for us all: The X-over effect of wide shovel and deep sidecut from boards to skis has made steep, deep, powder available to many more skiers (not always to the best interests and safety on the hill). But back to skier stereotypes . . .

Pr*cks on sticks . . .
They'll never be forgiven for the day-glow romper-suit.
The gawking line across the top of a run while they pull on gloves glasses etc. blocking passage to anyone while they decide who doesn't want to look most 'un-cool'
F*****G MOGULS!
The bast***s walking across my topsheet.
Waving poles around to point at something.
Even worse bar-room bull-sh*t than boarders.
Can't hold their weed or their beer.
We have iPods. . . they have phones.

Boarder by choice, skier by necessity

The only remnant of prejudice (but is it prejudice?) is the feeling among some long-time off-piste skiers that boarders can get on the off-piste so quickly that many have not had time to understand the dangers - sometimes endangering others in the process. Also the feeling I find among some off-piste skiers who carefully "Farm" off-piste slopes, that boarders tend to do big turns right accross the slope and instantly trash it.

But the animosity was always largely in jest and that is certainly so now when many people do both.
For example the old joke: "What do you call 23 snowboarders caught in an avalanche"?
Answer: "A start".

We never really thought that. (even 22 would be quite enough!)

PS A few seasons ago I was waiting off-piste for a skier in our group who had lost a ski when a group of young boarders arrived near me who hadn't been born when I first skied off-piste with wooden skis and cable bindings. One said to his friends, looking at us, "You know, we did this. Since boarders started opening up the off-piste more and more skiers seem to be coming here".
Laughing

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I think that a certain amount of the disdain in which boarders were held by skiers arose in the early days of boarding when almost no-one could board, but didn't realise it, and they were a menace to one and all, careering about just off the edge of pistes, appearing out of nowhere and just missing (usually) you, pushing any fresh snow into big heaps because they couldn't edge and generally being irresponsible teenage w@nkers, which is what they were.

Things have changed, most boarders can do it properly now (although they still push the snow about too much), and they are a pleasure to share the mountain with. At least, they would be if they stopped wearing wanky little goatees and talking Americanised cool dude s4it as if boarding was some sort of spiritual experience. Oh, and by the way, no-one stereotypes boarders anymore.

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richmond,

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sambmx, to throw in a little bit more interest and emotion, ask boarders and skiers what they think of 'bladers'.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

snowball, well if you plankers skied ON the powder rather than THROUGH it you wouldn't get lost so often rolling eyes

richmond, where have you seen a mogul field made by boarders? pushing snow around is not just one sport's waste of effort.

A snowHead

Nells, Kramer . . . QED try again sweetcheeks Little Angel

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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It would be interesting to look at what the "cool kids" are veering towards now - I supect its skiing as boarding no longer has the same outsider image when there are lots of thirtysomething urban profesionals doing it.

I think there are some die-hard hold-outs for prejudice on both sides, usually among the more occasional participants, but lots of people mix and match these days or at least have tried the other sport. Some of the friction based on ruining the snow, moguls etc is due to a fundamental lack of understanding of how the other sport differs.

The skier's claim that "It's too easy for boarders to get off-piste" aside from the valid safety issues has an air of jealousy about it. Equally the boarder's objection that "skiers make horrible moguls" points to skill deficiency.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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Arno, If the plankers spent more time going down the hill rather than cacking themselves into making bumps we wouldn't have to mess about in them. It's not as if they're a natural phenomenon rolling eyes

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sambmx, welcome to snowHeads

As you can see you touched on a subject that snowHeads are very willing to talk about. I'd say the media had little to do with the perceptions between skiers and snowboarders. snowboarders are pretty much obliged to sit down when they stop - this means they use the slopes differently from skiers and this can lead to friction if you don't realise they have to sit down.

After all it is free

Masque, calm down, calm down. It's Friday afternoon.

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Masque, i actually have a strong dislike for moguls but I prefer to go places where there aren't any rather than whinge about them

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maggi, true Embarassed

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Arno, Wus

sambmx, I think as boarding has developed so has the culture. As with any subculture (see Dick Hebdige, Sarah Thornton, Ken Gelder for an intro' to sociological thinking on this - The Subcultures Reader is particularly good) the original pioneers move on as the bourgeoise claim it for themselves. Those slightly longer in the tooth have vast respect for skiers who know their stuff and an outrageous animosity for those who spend a week or two away and come up with the usual baloney about spending too much time on the sides of pistes (IMHO). Of course there is always new blood coming into the sport and pushing it further doing crazy poo-poo that terrifies the b'jesus out of me. I think one of the interesting things about boarding proper, compared to other marketable subcultures, is that it takes real guts and attitude to do. Landing that 1st 180 and being airborne is really difficult to do so there is a sense of virtue and cameradery that doesn't get found in, say, drug oriented subcultures. As you mention, the divide between boarding and skiing is very blurred when we start looking at freestyle and I suppose freeriding to some extent. Now Tanner Hall, he's some talent!

You know it makes sense.

I don't think there is any real anymosity anymore.

There used to be a lot of p*sstaking about clothing, eg one piece neon coloured ski-suits, & baggy grungy coloured snowboard trousers.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Now its a purely practical thing altho tricks on twins are far cooler than their boarding counterparts.

For getting down the mountain the board is fine but fior getting about the monutain its is a poor tool, hence Arno's comment about walking out and traversing in, ...major major pains on a board and one that dooms a mixed group skiing together...and don't even think about rat-tracks through the trees. But if you like one or the other so much you will put up with the downsides for those season making glorious runs...

A good rider is a good rider whether on a board or skis..

A snowHead

Masque, moguls are a perfectly natural phenomenon - at least if you have skiers around. They are also arguably one of the hardest skills to master in (recreational) skiing. Clearly beyond the reach of most boarders - NB! I have the greatest admiration for boarders or telemarkers who can run bumps well).

A question for sambmx, are you looking for anecdotal prejudice or preconception? I think there is a deal of the latter and a great deal of the latter.

IMHO...boarders are blamed for...

* scraping perfectly good powder off perfectly nice pitches (arguably true if they don't know what to do, same as for unskilled skiers).

* sitting around just over the brow of a blind roll making perfect targets for skiers to hit (understandable as it requires effort to get going if you're just below a roller on the uphill side) - this one is a bete noire for me, it does happen. Understanding does not lead to forgiveness. Accidents tend to happen, please don't try and make them more probable!

* behaving irresponsibly (err, they are a population skewed towards adolescence. What does one expect?)

* wearing clothes that my generation wouldn't be seen dead in. Well, good for them. I once had a much loved Degre 7 jacket that involved 3 shades of pink, two of purple, one blue and green. I mean, it was the eighties...

To paraphrase Monty Python. So what have boarders ever done for us (skiers, I mean)?

* Totally changed the technology so that your average skiers gets to have more fun earlier on in their skiing experience?

* Introduced the grunge/camo look?

* Allowed those for whom it was only ever important from a pride p.o.v. to allow that their pair isn't the longest skis in the cable car? (I still have a pair of 215s so mine still are!! Mwah-ha-ha-hah! Twisted Evil

)

* roads?

* viaducts?

A snowHead

Cant wait to see in about 30/40 years
groups of 70 year old boardera on the slopes in their grunge outfits

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

IF you look at this link and watch Video Number 5 http://www.skiandsnowboard.com/eyecandy_video.html this is what alot of skiers used to think of snowboarders.

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I did not like boarders for the reasons listed, I think this had a lot to do with lack of confidence in my skiing ability at the time, they always (and still do at times) seem out of control.
Over time I came to notice the difference less and less. I have now had two holidays with mixed groups and had a great time. Even to the extent of towing them across the flats Smile

The sitting in the middle of the piste under a brow still does wee wee me off.

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stevew, It certainly doesn't happen as much but there is something I've seen that does happen a lot and may be partly to blame for this complaint. When the pistes get a bit scraped off and icy with the loose stuff pushed to the sides, all the slightly less secure skiers head for the sides, and since we're over there already we get run into by people on sticks who are not skiing with due care and attention over blind crests.

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Masque, most of the boarders I see below crests are in the middle. Equally I find it more fun in many cases to do short turns down the edge of a piste becasue of the better snow not (normally) for a more secure feeling!

After all it is free

I've dabbled in the dark side for a while & skied for even longer and have never sat down under a crest, indeed I rarely sit down at all on a board other than on chairlifts - only if the snow conditions preclude getting a decent edge in without cramp. Its basically about awareness and we had many threads on this in the past.

The hill frog phenomenon is no different from the barricade of skiers stood right across a busy intermediate piste anywhere where the gradient steepens or the "having a nice chat" brigade stood in the middle of a narrow cat track.

Masque, I agree with stevew, /the sitting in the middle of a piste just over a brow does seem to be a pretty common phenomonen! I'm sure you don't do it (and neither do I if I'm on a board), however I'm really not clear why so many do do it - it ought to be common sense not to ...

I remember (violins out now), when boarding started over here, the guys who could do it were super cool, and all the others were twits - it was/is much harder to learn alpine carving. Now the alpine carvers are really restricted to snowboard racing (and one or two in boardercross), and the "soft" has become the norm. this brought out the kids and the "cool" image. however it now very hard for even the grungiest snowboarding teenager to pretend that it's anything other than mainstream - hence it's becoming less "cool", and the new "cool" seems to be freestyle and freeride. Skiiing is now becoming "cool" again.

Don't get me started again on bladers (having said that I'll probably be on blades some time this week)!! Shocked

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i am a boarder who ski's, but when i ski, due to the clothes i wear i feel i need a big sign saying normally i surf, as my skiing is so crap!!!! (all the gear no idea!!!)

now with skiism and boardism i find it all depends on how old the people with the problem are. The 2.2 kids pole swining holiday maker of probably over 30, i personally find has BIG problems with boarders for really no real reason.

the younger generation, however, think its cool to be able to do anything on the freestyle side, be it skiing or boarding.

as to the sitting in the middle of the piste thing. In my experience you see a school of skiiers all following each other in a massive snake taking up the whole piste so no one can pass, who then stop and block the whole piste!!!!!!!!!! I mean i ask you.

in my opinion it dont matter what you ride as long as you have respect for others on the mountain, what i find is a great shame is that most of the english holiday makers we see here in serre che, and most of them are skiers, do not have that respect towards boarders but expect it shown to them.
Of course there will always be the odd boarder who has the same problem as these skiers but in my experience its the skiers with more of a problem.
there are still massive splits they need to be overcome but till skiers show boarders more respct it will never ever happen.

Help!!

Stereotypes

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