 Poster: A snowHead
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Whilst on my last holiday myself and my skiing buddy were discussing ava backpack weights, seems my "old" Mammut with a carbon cylinder is basically the same weight as the current Scott Patrol bags?
Doing a bit more digging, you can shave some considerable weight off by going with a much less tough bag with a load less pockets?
Is this summary table of weights correct, does anyone have any info on other sub 2kg (with carbon canister/electrics/battery) bags?
backpack & airbag + carbon cartridge/E1 system
Mammut Ultralight Removable Airbag 3.0 1510g
Ortovox Ascent 22 Avabag 1640g
Ortovox Ascent 28 Avabag 1830g
Ortovox ASCENT 30 AVABAG 1860g
Ortovox Avabag Litric Zero 1970g
Mammut Free 22 Removable Airbag 3.0 2225g
Ortovox Avabag Litric Freeride 16S 2330g
Mammut Ride On Removable Airbag 30L 2510g
Scott Patrol E1 2510g
Scott Patrol E2 30L 2720g
BCA Float 18 2948g
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 7-02-23 13:24; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A useful list. I have the Mammut Ultralight for that reason. I've ridden with most modern airbags, but I like mine best mostly because of the weight. I dare say the bag is "less tough", but then I'm not sack-hauling it or anything and mine's still like new after a few seasons of heavier use than most people will have time to deliver. Obviously some people need to carry more volume; I think that's probably more of the issue than "robustness". Well unless people continually fall off backwards into trees, or on their ass on hardpack. There's space for water bottle plus puffy plus small camera stuff in mine; enough for a single day but not overnight. It all depends what one's doing. I think there are some other small sacks from those people who sell "mix and match" bags, but when I last checked they were all heavier than the ultralight.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@phil_w, good to know you've used the ultralight regularly, cheers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I know they seam to be having some issues with it, but the Ortrovox/Arcteryx Litric is looking at around 1100g
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes, I’ve been using ultralight 22l and 30l packs for a few years now. I was initially concerned about durability because (for me) they started to look a bit tatty quite quickly. However, they haven’t really deteriorated much since.
They have no frills though. Lack of pockets etc is a less of an issue on the smaller pack but but it can get a bit disorderly in the 30l pack if it’s full of kit. The light weight is worth the slight inconvenience IMO
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ecrinscollective, looks like the base unit is 1100g but you then need to add a zip on bag?
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| ecrinscollective wrote: |
| I know they seam to be having some issues with it, but the Ortrovox/Arcteryx Litric is looking at around 1100g |
It's been taken off the market and issued a voluntary recall for this season. That figure is *just* the system weight without the backpack from what I can work out. The lightest one (AVABAG LITRIC ZERO) they are claiming 1,970 grams total weight. The AVABAG LITRIC FREERIDE 16S is listed at 2330 g.
but good point, chart amended 
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Yes, I think those are heavier, all up.
The ultralight (smallest) pack has a single compartment, but it opens out completely so you can see what's there.
There's a pocket with a but of rubber mat in it you can use to sit on. I sit on my board, leave the pack on - it's forgettable.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arno wrote: |
| @ecrinscollective, looks like the base unit is 1100g but you then need to add a zip on bag? |
That does make more sense, it seamed very light compared to everything else.
I have potentially just been offer an airbag (different brand) to test and had a flick though to see how it compared. Saw Ortrovox's page and got lazy and just read the highlights of it.
cheers
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@geoffers, struggling to understand the benefit of wearing that at 1666g plus a rucksack vs one of the lighter rucksacks inc airbags ? Your point of being protected if searching is simply solved by putting your airbag back on after taking the kit out!
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You know it makes sense.
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I have the Mammut Ultralight (with carbon) and the Scott Patrol E1 22l. When skiing with just shovel and probe in the bag I don't notice much of a difference between the two. As @phil_w said, the Mammut is forgettable in that I have zero awareness of it when I'm focused on skiing. With the Scott bag it's pretty much the same, almost no awareness that I have it on my back. If I was carrying more stuff in the pack I think I'd prefer the Scott as the shoulder straps are a bit sturdier and I think they'd be more comfortable. If I'm attaching skis to the bag for a short bootpack the Scott would win hands down.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@rob@rar, quite interesting that 1kg in weight doesn't make much difference! I suspect it would be more noticeable if skinning up for longer periods?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@kitenski, I think its difficult to notice as the 1kg is only part of the overall pack weight and weight is spread across both shoulders and hip belt. Weight attached to each foot will have a bigger impact in terms of fatigue while the 1kg will impact your overall climbing speed but will be marginal when taking into your overall equipped weight - around 1% for me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @rob@rar, quite interesting that 1kg in weight doesn't make much difference! I suspect it would be more noticeable if skinning up for longer periods? |
Yes, I guess so. But if you’re on more of a day-tour rather than lift-served off-piste I think I’d rather go with the sturdier pack as I’d be carrying more kit. The Mammut Ultralight is pretty flimsy if you have much more than a shovel & probe and a midlayer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The Mammut marketing images for the Ultralight show them stuffed with padding - the [zoomable] image below shows what my 2016 [?] Ultralight looks like when loaded with just shovel and probe. You can see you could easily fit a puffy and water bottle or hydration pack etc.
If you need more volume, get a bigger pack. I mean: one ought to pick the volume you need first, then try to minimize weight, if you care about that.
Not eating junk food would likely be a cheaper way of losing a kilo, mind.
Some of the recent electric packs I've used are a bit stiff, which I don't like, although you quickly find other things to think about, like not falling over.
--
I hadn't thought as far as putting the airbag back on after ejecting probe and shovel. Arguably I should not be there if there's ongoing risk, but still. I shall try to remember to re-rig the bag after chucking the gear out, although that's going to be dependent upon numbers and situation - if I think it's safe (why else would I be there?) then I'm likely to focus on the person holding their breath before worrying about where I even left my pack (other needed gear isn't in there).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| kitenski wrote: |
Whilst on my last holiday myself and my skiing buddy were discussing ava backpack weights, seems my "old" Mammut with a carbon cylinder is basically the same weight as the current Scott Patrol bags?
Doing a bit more digging, you can shave some considerable weight off by going with a much less tough bag with a load less pockets?
Is this summary table of weights correct, does anyone have any info on other sub 2kg (with carbon canister/electrics/battery) bags?
backpack & airbag + carbon cartridge/E1 system
Mammut Ultralight Removable Airbag 3.0 1510g
Ortovox Ascent 22 Avabag 1640g
Ortovox Ascent 28 Avabag 1830g
Ortovox ASCENT 30 AVABAG 1860g
Ortovox Avabag Litric Zero 1970g
Mammut Free 22 Removable Airbag 3.0 2225g
Ortovox Avabag Litric Freeride 16S 2330g
Mammut Ride On Removable Airbag 30L 2510g
Scott Patrol E1 2510g
BCA Float 18 2948g |
Good idea for a thread! But Litric have been pulled from the market, as there is a safety issue. And overall those seem to be just the claimed weights, which doesn't make too much sense imho. Those Ortovoxes are with or without cartridge?
German magazine "Alpin" (one of the very few good publications) does gear reviews regularly which can be looked up for free in a somewhat shortended/delayed version on their website. Can't recommend that highly enough! They not only give you real weights, but real capacity (+ claimed) and country of production as well. Interestingly, ARVA are still made in France, while Mammut seem to have shifted for this season from Hungary to Vietnam. All the other brands produce there as well or on the Philippines. For those who left China due to cost ten years ago and now think that the Vietnamese slant eyes have ultimately become to greedy, Scott is happy to sell you Bangladeshy backpack for a thousand bucks. 
Recent reviews (just scroll down and click through the pics):
2015 https://www.alpin.de/tests-produkte/rucksaecke/1520/artikel_lawinenrucksaecke_10_modelle_im_test.html
2019 https://www.alpin.de/tests-produkte/rucksaecke/29183/s-2837496/produkttest_airbag-rucksaecke_im_test-ortovox-ascent-30-avabag.html
2021 https://www.alpin.de/tests-produkte/44264/artikel_test-das-sind-die-besten-airbag-rucksaecke.html
2023 https://www.alpin.de/tests-produkte/55645/produkttest_produkttest-2023-lawinenairbags.html
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 22-01-23 23:49; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ridiculous
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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For the 23-24 season Scott will be extending their range of E2 Patrol packs from the current 30 litre launch model. They'll be offering both 22L and 38L versions and for the real weight weanies they're offering a 25L "Ultralight" pack.
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| Death2PC wrote: |
| Ridiculous |
What is? 
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@spyderjon, have they published weights for pack and system?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The naked weight of my ospray solden 32 E2 is 3.05kg per my luggage scales.
My deuter free ride pro 30 + 10 is 1.5kg which I thought weighed practically nothing!
Maybe I’ll commit to being 1.5kg for next ski season to make up for the weight of the pack 
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FAQ
