 Poster: A snowHead
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He’s hardly a Grom any more at 18 - but he is strongly motivated to start touring. I gave my kit to a friend - old Movements with Dynafit - and so now need to consider two sets of skis and bindings for Grom and myself.
We are:
170 and 172 tall
130-140 lbs
He strong expert, me strong intermediate
Boot 25-26 mondo
I have trashed ACL in one leg
Both Avi trained
Extended experience on the hill
I have homed in on Atomic Backcountry 100 but a bit worried about which length.
Salomon Shift? For me I need something which will be kind to my knee.
All advice welcome.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Give @spyderjon a ring http://thepisteoffice.com/
I'm not sure putting a Shift onto a lightweight ski like the Backcountry is the best idea. Would you have it purely for touring? I have Shifts on Whitedot R.98s which I use lift served off piste, touring and also April slush on piste
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 21-02-24 15:08; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| valais2 wrote: |
He’s hardly a Grom any more at 18 - but he is strongly motivated to start touring. I gave my kit to a friend - old Movements with Dynafit - and so now need to consider two sets of skis and bindings for Grom and myself.
We are:
170 and 172 tall
130-140 lbs
He strong expert, me strong intermediate
Boot 25-26 mondo
I have trashed ACL in one leg
Both Avi trained
Extended experience on the hill
I have homed in on Atomic Backcountry 100 but a bit worried about which length.
Salomon Shift? For me I need something which will be kind to my knee.
All advice welcome. |
My wife is 170cm / 60kg and I am looking at DPS Pagoda Tour 100 in 163 + ATK Raider 11 Evo for her. IME ATK Freeride binding is better than the Shift. Skis better, tours better, more reliable and miles lighter.
Regarding length I’m 180cm / 85 kg and use 185cm Freeride skis. Powder touring skis (DPS Pagoda Tour 112 with lots of rocker) I ski same length. Volkl Rise Above 88 with flat tail I ski in 177. If in doubt go shorter on touring skis as it’s less ski to lug up and kick turns are easier, and you are usually anyway skiing slower / more controlled on the down.
Don’t know those skis. The only Atomic skis I’ve tried are the UL 65’s in 161cm for skimo races. They ski like poo-poo but are very light 
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@kitenski, @BobinCH, ….thanks indeed both…very helpful…touring gear is a zone of Great Unknown for me and I am just diving into it and these pointers are extremely helpful.
Currently first outings likely to be ‘Easy up … pootle down’ until we get the feel of things….
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, step one is work out how often you'd tour I reckon, then that decision will lead you to decide if you want to buy a dedicated setup!
Don't forget to add in ski crampons and skins to your budget, and of course new boots that will go into a pin binding if you go that route 
On bindings read up about suspension, elastic travel, release etc (or just talk to Jon/buy from him!)
There is this thread worth a peruse. https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=149515
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kitenski wrote: |
On bindings read up about suspension, elastic travel, release etc (or just talk to Jon/buy from him!)
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Or save your time and just get ATK 
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@BobinCH, would you have the ATKs on an off piste ski?? It gets good reviews!
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @BobinCH, would you have the ATKs on an off piste ski?? It gets good reviews! |
Sorry don’t follow. All (most) touring is off piste non?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2, IIRC pin bindings are less likely (than regular alpine clamps) to damage your ACL. The trade off is the increased tib-fib breakage risk
I think the Shift is a great binding if you are using it for short skins to access otherwise inaccessible terrain off the lifts, and primarily using it in alpine mode. But it's still quite heavy, so it doesn't really make sense to put it on a full on touring ski. Assuming you are keeping your normal alpine setup(s) then it makes sense to go pin bindings on touring skis.
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@mgrolf, thanks indeed - that’s an important set of insights.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@BobinCH, I meant as a non touring binding for lift served off-piste. At the moment I move my shifts from the R.98 which is a do it all offpiste/touring ski onto a piste ski for weight savings in a bag for Easyjet
I assume the ATK is not a replacement for the Shift in that environment?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kitenski wrote: |
@BobinCH, I meant as a non touring binding for lift served off-piste. At the moment I move my shifts from the R.98 which is a do it all offpiste/touring ski onto a piste ski for weight savings in a bag for Easyjet
I assume the ATK is not a replacement for the Shift in that environment? |
I've got ATKs on my touring / soft snow / lift accessed skis (Salamon QST 106 Echo). I will use them for touring and any days where there is a chance of soft snow, bit of a play at the side of the piste etc. Obviously this year hasn't been the best of year's to judge and I've only skied them once since I got them but with the freeride spacer they ski very nicely.
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| kitenski wrote: |
@BobinCH, I meant as a non touring binding for lift served off-piste. At the moment I move my shifts from the R.98 which is a do it all offpiste/touring ski onto a piste ski for weight savings in a bag for Easyjet
I assume the ATK is not a replacement for the Shift in that environment? |
You could as IME the Freeride series has a pretty high speed limit but I use a full fat Alpine boot and Marker Griffons on my Freeride skis as they provide more support and «recoverability» when you get things wrong.
I don’t really like the way the shift skis (delta angle?) compared to the Markers and there’s not much weight difference in it (and Shifts much more expensive and fragile).
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You know it makes sense.
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I use my ATK Raider 12 with Freeride spacer (so basically a Freeride 12) and toe spacer on my Wailer 112 for both powder touring and lift-served off-piste, fantastic binding, wouldn't consider going Shifts for that usage
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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What boot do you intend to use with the set up? While ATK is the best tech binding on the market, bar none, it's a dedicated touring binding, perhaps what you need, maybe not. Shift is a hybrid binding, best suited by those doing the occasional tour and more an "On-Sight" Touring set up, then you have the CAST system for a full blown downhill rig, for a "drag" uphill. Careful, the ATK while awesome isn't a ski binding, lacks enough elastic travel and a full lug connection. We sell loads of all, 20% CAST, 60% Shift, 20% ATK. The boot can be a good indication as to what binding you'll need. Generall speaking we split this into 3 ranges. AT (Alpine Touring, the heaviest but highest performance), Hybrid a no compromise all round set up, suiting the most of our client and Freetouring, the lightest range, still fantastic performance best performance per gram, but generally a dedicated second set up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Regards skis, take a peak at the Nordica Enforcer Unlimited range, our current hot pick; the Blizzard Hustle, good deals to be found, the Blizzard Zero G range, perfect to marry with the ATK; Black Crows Freebird range, expensive and made by Elan, with a couple done at Blizzard; and of course Elan Ripstick Tour range. There's a whole bunch out there, for us it's all about the consistency of the QC, hense the recommendations. Sadly buying skis isn't as complex as is often stated. The length your height decides, for touring it should finish in the center of your forehead to simplify kick-turns, possibly longer but never shorter, the width a question of Powder vs piste (aspirational and rarely actual.) Weight perhaps less important, but worth considering if they are to be carried. (boot weight is more important, however not as important as ROM)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@CH2O, what’s ROM please?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@kitenski, Range of motion, how far forwards and back the coller of the boot moves in walk mode, anything more than 40° is a waste, however it's also important your ankle ROM fits within the vector of the boot, and that the boot ROM is fluid and not high friction. If you can only make 30cm strides because of the lack of ROM, you'll be picking the boot up more often as you walk, so the weight is more significant, if the ROM is wide and frictionless and your stride length is say 90cm your picking that boot up 2 times less often, weight therefore less significant.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@CH2O, thanks! Interested in what ROM my Hawks give me, is it as simple as putting them into walk mode, unclipping top buckles/boost strap and measuring?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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54degrees, so maximum open ROM of 108 degrees, most certainly enough unless your a gymnast.
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| CH2O wrote: |
| the Blizzard Hustle, good deals to be found, |
You get good feedback on the Hustle 10? A lot cheaper than the Pagoda Tour 100 that’s for sure! Easy to ski?
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great FT ski,
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FAQ
