 Poster: A snowHead
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Was utterly shocked to be charged for the Grand Massif piste map last week. Given cost of lift passes and necer before being charge for them.
Has any other resort started doing this? Presume this is new for this season?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@NickyJ,  maybe they want people to use online and save the printing cost
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That must be a new thing in the grand massif. We were not charged for piste maps in the three valleys or evasion Mont Blanc last week.
I was surprised you can no longer buy a bag for life in french supermarkets. Luckily we had remembered to bring a few.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@holidayloverxx, yep, can sort of understand that lots of costs involved and increased electricity costs etc. However was completely shocked when asked as completely new one on me
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We always seemed to have masses between us - when they're free, people put them in pockets "just in case". Makes sense to charge, perhaps. We'll get used to it. Like having to pay for plastic bags in supermarkets - makes you more careful!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Can’t really understand the logic, to be honest.
I’m not sure downloading piste maps onto a mobile really makes much sense and I’d have thought this move will discourage some folk from buying what I would have thought is a fairly important aid to skiing new/larger areas.
I suppose it may make people have a less “throw away” attitude 
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What was the cost NickyJ?
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If they are going to charge for them they could at least laminate them so they'll last a while.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Was 1 Euro
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| pam w wrote: |
| We always seemed to have masses between us - when they're free, people put them in pockets "just in case". Makes sense to charge, perhaps. We'll get used to it. Like having to pay for plastic bags in supermarkets - makes you more careful! |
Yep.... I suspect having seen it once we will see more and more copying. Curious to see no mention here, so suspicious they maybe the first. Certain they won't be the last!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I hate it, but it cuts down on litter as well as costs. Vail Resorts did away with them entirely for a while but now I see some of their resorts have them available if you ask.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not used a paper map for years, most resorts have an App nowadays.
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A lot of resorts have their own apps with interactive piste maps showing what lifts are open and the like as well as showing you where you are.
Though doubt some of the SHs demographic will be target users, plus the use of the apps for majority of SHs will also involve data roaming charges etc
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You know it makes sense.
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I can't use a phone app out on a piste, with gloves and goggles instead of specs and sunlight and faff. I do like the big maps often found at the top of lifts. But being able to follow somebody who knows what they're doing is even better. A map like the "plasticised" Ordnance Survey maps would be worth the price of a cup of coffee.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So, you're moaning just for tha sake of it . Hardly going to leave you destitute now is it 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, you need to keep a copy of Alastair Pink in your pocket. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| halfhand wrote: |
So, you're moaning just for tha sake of it . Hardly going to leave you destitute now is it |
Not moaning so much as was just completely shocked as never encountered this before in last 35years, saw no warnings that this was now charged for as always saw as something that was included in prices of the lift pass.
Trying to gauge how wide spread it is and where else is doing it. Certainly not universal, as another poster WASN'T charged last week in different resort
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I must admit its a number of years since I bothered looking at a piste map, but thats because I tend to only go to Tignes / Val, sometimes Ste Foy, and the various small resorts in Scotland.
But when I have been to areas I didnt know like Argentiere, or Morgins I have picked one up in a pub or whatever.
Its clearly not the 1€ thats bothering the OP, and I agree its a tricky balance.
One one hand, there must be a considerable waste of paper, and as some have mentioned there are also the apps that most areas now have.
However, all of the maps also serve a secondary purpose in that everyone (ok, most people) know that they also have the pisteurs number on the back.
Obviously this is also the case for the app version, but for a lot of people, there is a comfort to be had double checking a map quickly pulled out the pocket and knowing where pisteurs are - and they also tell you where things like cafes / restos are.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And it comes the day after the Mountain Rescue folks in the Lake District were telling people not to rely on Mobile Mapping….
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
you need to keep a copy of Alastair Pink in your pocket
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I was thinking partly of Alastair when I posted that.  I'm quite good at maps, generally, but not piste maps. It was ages before I realised the reason I got so confused in the 3 Valleys was because the map's upside down, with the North down the bottom.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| And it comes the day after the Mountain Rescue folks in the Lake District were telling people not to rely on Mobile Mapping…. |
Its a fair point, esp when they are relying on GPS via phones.
A lot of people now use mobile apps like OA etc when casual hill walking - which work really well..........when they work !
But as an example, I use Android Auto in the car (its usually excellent) and for a couple of weeks its just not been picking up the GPS signal - and I know its not the phone as disconnecting from the car and pulling up Maps gives me a precise location - so its the app.
If I am walking I use a dedicated device (Garmin) which has never let me down, but I always have a paper map in the rucksack as well.
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I am definitely of the paper map generation. With the electronic equivalent, once I have worked out where I am I find that I can't see where I want to go since it's somewhere off screen. And that's without the hassle of getting out the phone and persuading it to switch on when on the mountain wearing thick gloves.
As @pam w says, the way South is (more or less) at the top and relationships are distorted meant I had a long learning process in reading piste maps. But now I understand the distorted topology I find it very quick to earn the layout of a resort. The main challenge is that pistes are often signposted in a different way than they are labelled on the map.
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I agree that this is quite shocking, and totally get why lots of people still prefer paper maps rather than relying on phone apps. I've never heard of being charged for them, and it's certainly not the case in the PdS.
I always make sure to leave a couple in each apartment, and it's certainly very useful when arrivals are asking which pistes are open at the moment. At the start of each season I'm usually to be found carting about several kg of various printed items, piste maps among them, but also local guidebooks in three languages, back from the Tourist Office. They're happy to give them out in bulk with no questions asked.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
I agree that this is quite shocking, and totally get why lots of people still prefer paper maps rather than relying on phone apps. I've never heard of being charged for them, and it's certainly not the case in the PdS.
I always make sure to leave a couple in each apartment, and it's certainly very useful when arrivals are asking which pistes are open at the moment. At the start of each season I'm usually to be found carting about several kg of various printed items, piste maps among them, but also local guidebooks in three languages, back from the Tourist Office. They're happy to give them out in bulk with no questions asked. |
We also provide a lot of printed material for guests, in 3 languages, including piste maps for 3 ski areas plus Langlauf tracks etc. Not something we’d do if we had to fork out 1€ per map!
Apps etc are all well and good but, mobile devices don’t necessarily operate at optimum levels in the cold, batteries run out, not always easy to access restaurant stops etc and the overall picture about where you might be, in context of the whole resort isn’t quite so easy on a small screen….never mind whether the downloadable maps are optimised for mobile phones. It’s not really a generational thing, IMV.
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It's a wally stopper.
A nominal change to ensure you don't treat the things as worthless garbage and litter the place with them. I don't use them any more anyway, but if you do, now you'll only use one per trip instead of one every day. Old folk hate change, so they're not going to like it, but to me it seems like a great idea.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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No charge in El Tartar this week but apparently the lift Co are refusing to give hotels/chalets a supply and there were very few availiable in the lift pass office.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| phil_w wrote: |
It's a wally stopper.
A nominal change to ensure you don't treat the things as worthless garbage and litter the place with them. I don't use them any more anyway, but if you do, now you'll only use one per trip instead of one every day. |
Agreed
| Quote: |
| Old folk hate change, so they're not going to like it,... |
A well-debunked theory, often presented by the snowflake generation… 
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@adithorp, interesting. Thanks
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You know it makes sense.
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I saw it in Website
Although i dislike it i think it is fair.
Usually i use 3-4 ski maps in a week because always i destroy them...sometimes they get wet, sometimes forget them in appart ans i need a new one etc
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You can buy lens cloth piste maps. Prob not worth it for a single trip though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Old folk hate change
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Young folk should strive to avoid facile generational generalisations.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
I was surprised you can no longer buy a bag for life in french supermarkets
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I am really surprised as I bought one yesterday.
Who needs piste maps?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
Who needs piste maps? |
Big areas that you don't know they can be useful, though many are difficult to read.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Terrible business idea: bags for life with piste maps on. Nice and durable, and you can always have a bag in your ski jacket.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Not used a paper map for years, most resorts have an App nowadays. |
You can see only a fraction of the ski area on an app - versus unfurling a paper map to see the whole thing.
Only one winner for me - and it's not the app!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Old folk hate change
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Young folk should strive to avoid facile generational generalisations. |
Agreed. It's like us old folk saying all young folk are w4nkers...
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