 Poster: A snowHead
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I've recently bought my first pair of boots, having only rented in the past. I know I have difficult feet, which is why I was keen to purchase boots rather than keep hiring them. I went to a shop with a good reputation in the UK.
In the shop, the boots I was initially fitted with felt very tight on the feet and toes. When I made this point, the fitter put me in a different pair which felt more comfortable, but still cramped. I realise my hire boots have always been far too big, but I'm not sure how tight boots should be at this "new" stage. I was in the shop for approaching 2 hours and have no reason to think the boot fitter didn't know what they were doing - they certainly seemed to know a lot about feet, boots and the fitting process.
Wearing them around the house, within a minute or two of putting them on, my feet feel very uncomfortable. My toes go cold and I get pins and needles. I can feel my toes pushing against the front of the boots and the sides of my feet compressing to an uncomfortable degree. Given the discomfort I feel, I'm surprised that a simple shell check suggests the length at least is fine, as there's an obvious gap between the back of my heel and the rear of the shell.
I have a distant hope this might just be whilst the liners pack down...but I'm worried they just don't provide the fit I'm after. I want to ski all day in relative comfort. I'm firmly in the intermediate zone, being comfortable on all reds and not being afraid of blacks in reasonable conditions.
Should the boots be this uncomfortable in this early stage of ownership? Are they likely to get any more comfortable if I keep wearing them in at home and try and give them a few days on the slopes?
I don't want to bother the shop unnecessarily, so thought I'd ask on here first. I think I'll probably need some tweaks to the boots/liners, presumably stretching the width is possible. Not sure what can be done about the cramped toes though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@milzibkit, when you're wearing the boots at home, are you walking around in them or standing in a skiing stance? If it's the former, then it's not surprising if you can feel the ends of the boots with your toes. Flex forward (as you would when skiing) and your toes should pull away from the fronts of the boots and have more space. Ski boots aren't really designed for walking around in at home.
Each person's tolerance of fit is different, but generally a boot that fits well should feel like it is gripping your foot without crushing it. If you are concerned that something feels different at home vs in the shop (and you've done everything the same ie same socks, clips done up in the same order on the same notches etc) then give the shop a call. The fitter has seen your feet in the boots, which is a huge advantage compared to any of us out here on t'net.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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- The boots will loosen out when skied for the week.
- Generally, they should be pretty snug (no movement of foot in boot or heel lift), but not painful. Your toes should gently touch the top when standing, but pull away when knees are flexed.
- With the inner boot out and your toes (bare feet) brushing against the top, there should be around 18mm (max 20mm) behind your heel.
- Be sure to apply best practice when putting them on - ie. Getting your heel well into heel pocket/doing the buckles up in the correct order, with the right tension.
- Walking about can actually move your foot forward in the boot, pushing your toes into the front.
- If in doubt, go back and see who fitted them.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 7-12-22 12:53; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Generally, wearing them round the house is not a great idea. So that doesn't really inform anything.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
- With the inner boot out and your toes (bare feet) brushing against the top, there should be around 1.8mm (max 2mm) behind your heel.
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Centimetres (I'm guessing mm is a typo). 1.8 mm would be a very tight fit!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mgrolf wrote: |
| Old Fartbag wrote: |
- With the inner boot out and your toes (bare feet) brushing against the top, there should be around 1.8mm (max 2mm) behind your heel.
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Centimetres (I'm guessing mm is a typo). 1.8 mm would be a very tight fit! |
Now corrected.
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The only way to be certain is to try them out on an indoor slope. Your boots should come with a fit guarantee.
My boots fit like a dream when I'm skiing but cripple me to walk in.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| dave_3 wrote: |
The only way to be certain is to try them out on an indoor slope. Your boots should come with a fit guarantee.
My boots fit like a dream when I'm skiing but cripple me to walk in. |
See, this is what worries me. I'm never going to be a pro, so I want something I can wear all day without having significant pain. I also want to be able to take my boots off at the end of the day and not have residual pain from a day of having cramped feet. I do understand the thing about boots being more comfortable in a skiing stance and I can feel the pressure on the front of my toes eases when I bend ze knees, but the reality of a day on the mountain is that half the time is probably spent on chairlifts/waiting for others/in a mountain restaurant. So I don't think I can put up with such discomfort for what is a large part of the day.
Thanks.for all the replies everyone. Still waiting for someone to tell me it's all totally fine and wearing them a few times before I head to the mountains is all that's needed to bed the liners in to a comfortable postion.
I'll give the shop a call tomorrow to arrange a return visit - the responses are helpful in validating my view that the boots are probably too uncomfortable right now.
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| Quote: |
Still waiting for someone to tell me it's all totally fine and wearing them a few times before I head to the mountains is all that's needed to bed the liners in to a comfortable postion.
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Well I'm certainly not going to tell you that. If the boots are positively painful in the warmth of your house, they don't sound right. I know this is heresy round here, but slightly on the "comfortable" side is better, for most of us recreational skiers, than slightly on the "uncomfortable" side. Toes certainly shouldn't feel cramped. Can you try with thinner socks?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@milzibkit, FWIW. My boots feel snug but not painful, even when walking. When new (in very cold weather), they were very hard to take off....but never hurt my feet.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@milzibkit, What seems odd is that you obviously wore them in the shop, had them fitted etc. Presumably the pain you describe wasn't there in the shop??
Are you trying to tighten them up too much compared to the shop?
Old Fartbag posted a couple of vids of buckling tecnique, might be worth a look.
I've seen loads of people rack up the toe buckles far too tight, which is all wrong for the recreational skiier.
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@milzibkit, One thing that can happen is that if the tongue of the liner doesn't touch your shin before doing up the clips, when the shell is closed it will move the tongue back a bit and pull the front of the liner against your toes. A good bootfitter can look for things like this if you describe what you are feeling. Not saying you do have this problem, just giving it as an example.
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You know it makes sense.
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They were uncomfortable when I wore them in the shop. I did say that, but the fitter didn't seem concerned based upon the measurements of my feet, so I trusted their view on it.
I've adjusted the buckles to the loosest setting possible using the Allen key and the helpful videos Old Fartbag posted suggest I'm doing everything right.
Perhaps I'll just switch to snowboarding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| milzibkit wrote: |
They were uncomfortable when I wore them in the shop. I did say that, but the fitter didn't seem concerned based upon the measurements of my feet, so I trusted their view on it.
I've adjusted the buckles to the loosest setting possible using the Allen key and the helpful videos Old Fartbag posted suggest I'm doing everything right.
Perhaps I'll just switch to snowboarding. |
Well, if your boots are that sore that you have to stop and sit down in the middle of the piste, preferably just over a fast crest then boarding seems the next logical step 
Ho Ho Ho !
In all seriousness - just go back to the shop and take more time to explain exactly whats going on and where.
Good luck
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Poster: A snowHead
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Exactly what @GreenDay has said.
Anecdotally, when I had my current boots fitted (by an excellent company in SW London), all seemed fine at first. The first day out on the slopes and all was not fine in the left boot with severe cramping from the tightness around the outside and inside of my foot. To alleviate, I took out the custom sole, reinstated the boot manufacturer sole which alleviated the issue for the remainder of the week.
On return to the UK, I went back to the fitter, carefully explained the issue and they ever so slightly ‘blew’ the outer shell and slightly remodelled the custom sole. Never had a problem since, remotely.
Feet are funny things and no two people are the same. Halfway decent bootfitters know this and I’m sure yours will be only to happy to help get things right. Good luck! And happy sliding!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@milzibkit, Ski boots should be brushing the toes when standing up, not uncomfortably pressing them. they should hold your foot like a soft handshake, not a knuckle crunching grip. Look at your foot and there is a vein going down the middle of the foot. If you over tighten the clasps at the front then this gets trapped and you get restricted blood to the toes and you get pins and needles. I suspect you are doing this. We are all taught to tighten shoes up to grip the foot. That is because shoes don't have bits around your leg. IMO ski boots are completely different. I only tighten my boots around the ankle (tight) and the top (tight-ish) to grip the leg. The buckles around my foot can be engaged with one finger. Never tight enough that I have to exert pressure. I think of these as snow guards.
Disclaimer is, I have Sidas Moulded inserts.
See @Old Fartbag, videos.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@milzibkit,
firstly don't panic yet!!!
new boots will always feel pretty tight first few times on, but we don't want them causing pain, it is a very fine line, and one persons tight hold is another's pain, give the shop a call talk to them, i would hope if it was me or my staff that you would talk to us, nothing worse than people who talk about problems on the internet without speaking to the shop to try and get a resolution or at least an understanding of why things are happening, nobody can do anything about this without you speaking to them.
wearing boots around the house is always a bit false and can cause some of the problems you have mentioned especially if you are not doing them up correctly or siting around etc , skiing is the only real way to bed them in
questions
how are you clipping the boots up... upper buckles first, then a couple of flexes before loosely doing up the lower buckles, toes at the front and not clearing despite a good shell check suggests you are not at the back of the boot, ankle buckles possibly need to be tighter or you need to give your heel a kick back into the boot to get it seated properly... this alone can resolve a lot of different things
socks? what socks are you using, did you use a thinner sock at the fitting than you are trying now? socks thickness matters and microns can make a massive difference to the fit
is there anything inside that shouldn't be? sounds daft but as much as we tell everyone not to put the stock liner form the boot in on top of the custom footbed they just bought at least one person a year does it and wonders why their feet go completely numb
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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When you say you had the boots fitted, did you just try a few on or did you get them fully thermofomed to your feet?
My current boots are bliss! Fully thermoformed at Ellis Brigham at Castleford 6 yrs ago. They were quite tight to start with & I thought I'd made a mistake but they quickly bedded in after a few days of use & I had to go back to get the top buckle moved to a tighter notch.
They still feel a bit tight the first time I put them on each season but I can go the whole day with them fully buckled up.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@tangowaggon, exactly the same fitted by Profeet, apart from not needing the buckle moving. They are snug enough to need warming to get them on, then I tighten them a bit after the first couple of runs and that's it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Take them back to the shop and get the next size up. In red. They're normally the fastest
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| Quote: |
| how are you clipping the boots up... upper buckles first, then a couple of flexes before loosely doing up the lower buckles, toes at the front and not clearing despite a good shell check suggests you are not at the back of the boot, ankle buckles possibly need to be tighter or you need to give your heel a kick back into the boot to get it seated properly... this alone can resolve a lot of different things |
I'm fairly sure I'm doing it right. Ankle buckle first, give a couple of kicks and some flexing, then top buckle, same routine again then lower two buckles.
| Quote: |
| socks? what socks are you using, did you use a thinner sock at the fitting than you are trying now? socks thickness matters and microns can make a massive difference to the fit |
I'm using a fairly thin sock that I bought in the shop at the same time as the fitting, so it's not socks I'm afraid.
| Quote: |
| is there anything inside that shouldn't be? sounds daft but as much as we tell everyone not to put the stock liner form the boot in on top of the custom footbed they just bought at least one person a year does it and wonders why their feet go completely numb |
Nope - nothing alien in there!
| Quote: |
| When you say you had the boots fitted, did you just try a few on or did you get them fully thermofomed to your feet? |
The fitter spent some time measuring my feet and watching me flex/move, then picked the boots for me. I felt the first pair were too tight, so they returned with a second pair (a different brand, but thankfully still the all-important same colour red). They also felt tight, but less so than the first pair I'd just spent an hour in and out of. The insoles were replaced and some pressure pads placed on the liner to stop some uncomfortable rubbing to the ankle (which is the reason I decided to buy boots - I have a dodgy ankle). No thermoforming as such, and I'm hoping that returning to the fitter and getting some thermoforming done might be all that's needed to relieve the tightness on the toes and across the width of the feet.
I really do appreciate everyone's comments. I probably should've realised in the shop they were too tight, but I'll arrange a return appointment to see whether they can stretch the liner/boots for me.
Edit: Also to confirm, I'm not suggesting the shop are in the wrong - they know a lot more about skiing and boot fitting than I do. I've avoided naming them purposefully. I just wanted some wider thoughts/views before I potentially wasted more of the shop's time.
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@milzibkit, it is like asking medical advice from mostly non-medical crowd on a public forum without showing test results …. Go back to the shop and tell them everything. They would either explain it to you or will look for a solution.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd also like to add from my previous post that I also had the same issue as you when I first tried my boots on. I went back and forth 3 times to the boot fitter. In the end he blew the big toe out by a few mm and it made a huge difference.
I also got a refund on my moulded footbeds as they pushed too hard into my arches and stopped the blood flow.
My symptoms where a crushing feeling on my big toes and freezing feet after about 30 minutes
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| CEM wrote: |
@milzibkit, trouble is as one of the shops recommended on here people put 2 and 2 together and get 6
no idea if it was one of our staff in my shop but people are quick to jump to conclusions and that can be detrimental to a small business especially at these challenging times
liners and shells can be heat molded in many different ways, what boot model is it and i can tell you the options on that front, one thing, "pressure pads placed on ankles to stop rubbing" was this just during a molding process or are these pads fixed to the liner still?
most importantly get yourself booked in with the store whichever one it is and get it sorted, its not about wasting the shops time, it is about communicating with them, nobody on the internet can fix your problem |
It wasn't your shop CEM.
The boots are Salomon S/Pro Alphas (in red, @Timberwolf). The pressure pad was placed on the outside of the liner. There was no molding process.
I will go back to the shop - now more confident that what I've got isn't quite right for me and needs adjusting.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| milzibkit wrote: |
[The pressure pad was placed on the outside of the liner. There was no molding process.
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If the pads were placed on the outside of the liner and left on, that was presumably to take up volume/reduce space, in order to stop the foot moving and ergo stop the rubbing. Perhaps here you had some miscommunication and actually needed more room to stop something pressing (ie not rubbery) on the foot?
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@milzibkit, good to know, hopefully they can get it sorted for you , the key with this is communication with them with what you are feeling etc, a good fitter can't feel your feet but can react to what you are saying and build the best fit for you
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You know it makes sense.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| milzibkit wrote: |
[The pressure pad was placed on the outside of the liner. There was no molding process.
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If the pads were placed on the outside of the liner and left on, that was presumably to take up volume/reduce space, in order to stop the foot moving and ergo stop the rubbing. Perhaps here you had some miscommunication and actually needed more room to stop something pressing (ie not rubbery) on the foot? |
I have very skinny legs and ankles (compared to my feet). So I've always rented boots that fit my feet, but allow my ankles/legs to wobble about. That moving ankle always results in a blister in the same spot. A collapsed arch also contributes to that problem. So the logic of the pad on the outside of the liner makes sense I think, it secures my ankle in place.
I think ultimately that's the cause of the problem - I have low volume legs/ankles but normal/high volume feet. So there will likely need to be a compromise somewhere. The boots grip my ankles well and for the first time ever I actually know what flexing a boot feels like now, but the cost to that is cramped feet and toes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I always use women’s knee high tights (pop socks) instead of socks for the first few days skiing in new ski boots (My wife does the same thing).
When the liners start to pack out I swap to thin ski socks.
It looks stupid, but nobody can see.
I’ve never understood how anyone can ski in properly fitted new ski boots without doing this.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Rule of thumb is ski in them 10 days before going back to the shop unless they are truly excruciating. Liners take a while to pack. Which is a good thing, because you don't want to replace them every year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@milzibkit, so ... that's a poorly fitted boot. Either it's the wrong boot, or the fitting process missed out the actual "active" fitting bit.
I have always been told I have "wide feet". Well, I don't, I have really narrow ankles. To the extent that when I got my last ski boots, the fitters thought I might need the girls' model just to get a narrow (snug) enough fit at the ankle. In the end, I got the mens' boot. But only just.
However, I do have a relatively wide forefoot compared to my ankles.
So having sized for my ankle, I then needed the forefeet to be enlarged (stretched) to make them comfortable (you can usually make things bigger, you can't usually make things much smaller).
Did your "fitter" adjust the forefoot? Would likely involve any of a variety of processes including heating and stretching, f'r instance? and would take a bit of time.
P.S. there's no real need for a compromise, usually. If it's done properly.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| under a new name wrote: |
@milzibkit, so ... that's a poorly fitted boot. Either it's the wrong boot, or the fitting process missed out the actual "active" fitting bit.
I have always been told I have "wide feet". Well, I don't, I have really narrow ankles. To the extent that when I got my last ski boots, the fitters thought I might need the girls' model just to get a narrow (snug) enough fit at the ankle. In the end, I got the mens' boot. But only just.
However, I do have a relatively wide forefoot compared to my ankles.
So having sized for my ankle, I then needed the forefeet to be enlarged (stretched) to make them comfortable (you can usually make things bigger, you can't usually make things much smaller).
Did your "fitter" adjust the forefoot? Would likely involve any of a variety of processes including heating and stretching, f'r instance? and would take a bit of time.
P.S. there's no real need for a compromise, usually. If it's done properly. |
It sounds like we're feet twins. No, there was no adjustment of the liner/boot itself.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@milzibkit, not being a fitter and not knowing what boot you're in, that (IMHO) sounds like it wasn't a proper "fitting".
It would be a surprise to me if I only encountered that process, would be a first.
Was it, perchance, at one of the large retailers (e.g. Ellis Brigham, Snow&Rock, etc.)?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No, it was a smaller independent shop. They get mentioned on Snowheads and have a good reputation.
It's no big deal - I'll go back to the shop for a second opinion and some adjustments.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You might want to make an afternoon appointment, and spend the morning walking around. Most people's feet will spread a little over the course of a day's skiing. My boots are okay when I put them on in the morning, but are pinching a bit by the end of the day.
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| milzibkit wrote: |
No, it was a smaller independent shop. They get mentioned on Snowheads and have a good reputation.
It's no big deal - I'll go back to the shop for a second opinion and some adjustments. |
That's p1ssed on his parade
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@Whitegoldsbrother, whose parade?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
| You might want to make an afternoon appointment, and spend the morning walking around. Most people's feet will spread a little over the course of a day's skiing. My boots are okay when I put them on in the morning, but are pinching a bit by the end of the day. |
That's interesting. I'd assumed feet get bigger when skiing, based solely on the fact my feet always feel tighter in my running shoes at the end of a run compared with the beginning. I'd assumed it was because of extra blood flow to the feet.
I have however been told your feet shrink when skiing, because they sweat out moisture.
I'd be interested to know which is true.
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@milzibkit, not something I’d heard in either direction …
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FAQ
