 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Just wondered if anyone has tried these new Ortovox Avalanche Backpacks [ https://www.ortovox.com/int-en/litric ] , looks promising, but I can't find anyone who actually has any in stock ?
Are they actually available to buy ?
Many thanks
Dave
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oops, no idea why I posted this in weather reports ! Can I move it, or does an admin have to ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think Admin needs to move it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hi Andy,
I saw that but was drawn to the fact that you can swap bits to make different sizes, and the one they have in stock is the only one that can't, I agree though, pretty pricy ! I'm wondering if they were so popular they've sold out, or actually not available yet ?
Admin , please feel free to move this to the Off Piste forum
Dave
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You could try contacting https://noblecustom.co.uk/ they are the UK importers for Ortovox so can probably tell you who in the UK stocks them or if it can be ordered yet?
Cheers
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Thank you, I'll drop them an email
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Was told in a shop in the Chamonix valley that there is a technical recall. So off the market for now .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ah … interesting
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@dfhage, moved it for you 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Scott Patrol packs combined with the Alpride E1/E2 system are the best on the market IMO - I sell loads' of 'em.
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@spyderjon, I'm in the market for a new airbag at the moment and I'm really struggling to get my head around this. I was all ready to invest in an Alpride pack of some description until I did some proper research.
The latest Alpride and Litric systems proclaim incredible weight savings. But then you look at all-up system weights and they're..... really heavy. Unless you go for a super-lightweight touring pack with a new-gen electric airbag installed, they're all pushing 3kg. My 10 year old Mammut Snowpulse weighs just over 3.3kg! In any case, a superlight pack is no good to me as it won't last me seasons of daily use and also they often don't have snowboard straps.
Current thinking is an Arva Flex Pro with an old-school carbon canister (this is a slightly heavier version of their standard pack using tougher fabrics for daily use). Comes in around 2.4kg so saves me just short of a whole kilo off my back. By comparison, a Scott Patrol 30 E2 is 2.7kg and almost exactly twice the price. The Ortovox Litric 30 Tour gets it down to 2.4kg but the pack itself is pretty fragile looking and, again, twice the price.
Unless you need to fly with it regularly (and even then it's only an issue long-haul), compressed gas still seems to me to be the best option.
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You know it makes sense.
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Also, one final thought - a lot of the electric bags are touting "multiple deployments" as a selling point. If I get avalanched once in a day, I'm going home! The ability to do regular test pulls is reassuring, but not really a huge advantage (refills are cheap anyway).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I am realitively new to backcountry, and I'll offer some thoughts on why I selected electric (Black Diamond Jetforce Pro, a couple years ago) over gas-canister for my first airbag pack, and what I think about the Litric options.
They key "marketing" points don't mean much to me.... I hope to never need a single field deployment, in my life, let alone more than one. And I tour near home in Park City, and don't know if I'll ever fly with an airbag pack. I do like the ability to easily test deloy, but I admit I've only done this once.
The reason I bought an electric bag is simplification.
It may not seem like much, but in a sport with an incredible amount of complexity and safety skills to learn and apply, removing even one element of logistics (re-charging a canister at a shop) and replacing it with something we all know how to do at home (plugging in a charger) is a win for me.
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Over time, however, I'm tiring of the tradeoffs of my 2-3 year old Black Diamond Jetforce Pro. The airbag itself is a bit bigger and tougher, but it also makes the bag heavier (3kg) and bulkier. My buddy has a comparatively compact Ortovox gas-canister bag that is not only smaller and lighter, but seems like it has more packing room as well.
I've also come to realize that the advantage of being able to charge at home also comes with the responsibility and task to charge at home... It's pretty easy to remember to charge it with my radio, but every time I plug it in I also think about the inevitable battery life degredation that occurs over time.
If I was purchasing today, I will still probably go electric, and I would get the Ortovox Litric Zero 27L, at 2kg.
At first I thought the Zero didn't make sense, because it's non-modular... but in reality 27L is a reasonable size for the majority of usage, so I might as well enjoy saving 20% weight vs the Ortovox Litric Tour 30L (2.4kg), as I'd probably never put a bigger bag on it anyway.
However, if I had started with a gas-canister, i probably would just keep using it and wonder what all the hype about electric was for.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@stevomcd - Digging into the ARVA packs..
They have a different design using venturi effect to draw in additional outside air as it fills. This has the advantage of making the canister smaller (and lighter) but the disadvantage that they are higher-pressure and have to be exchanged/refilled by an ARVA dealer rather than just standard compressed air canisters.
ARVA also uses a dual-baloon system, one for each side... so if there is a large puncture, the other side will be unaffected.
Their canister system seems to ride right in the middle of the pack. They say they are hydration bladder compatible, but I don't see an obvious way to fit a typical bladder in there. I couldn't find any review that made that clear. This is compared to the Ortovox design with the canister on one side and room to hang a hydration bladder on the other.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This forum is predominantly UK based so any cylinder based system just sucks for flying.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Flying to the USA is something I believe you can't do with non-electric bags, so that does suck.
Otherwise, it's no problem carting gas bags to Iceland, Canada, or the EU, it's no different from anything else. I use my gas bag in those places because it's the smallest and lightest I could buy. It's remarkably light and easy to handle compared to even 2021/22 season electric bags, some of which I've also used (because sometimes they are provided). My own bag will have at least 20 weeks on it, and looks like new, despite obviously not being built from kevlar. The carry system does work for snowboards, but would probably not be great for every day use.
I'm sure they'll all fire when I need them to fire, and I've practiced enough with both types not to need to do that regularly. The main hassle with the electric bags is remembering to power them up at the start and down at the end. The idea of selling the units separately from the basic bag is clearly popular, but sounds a bit like a compromise to me. I want the best thing for one specific purpose; if I also want a pack for walking in the fens I'll just buy another dedicated one.
For sure if people are going to be pulling their bags multiple times, get an electric bag. I don't ride with people like that though, it's a different market. In however long we've had airbags for, I've never seen one deployed in anger, and fully expect that to be true however long I'm riding backcountry snow.
When it's time to upgrade I'll buy the lightest I can get once more, I don't care what the technology is.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I bought a Scott bag off spyderjon just before winter, and got the extra 40l pack. Didn't think I would use it but it's actually been worth it. Can just about get a couple of days compact camping gear in and on it, and it carries a load fairly well - not as good as a proper hiking pack, but it gets it done. So it's worked out to be really useful for taking on bigger trips and still be able to take an airbag. I wouldn't want a 40l bag the rest of the time, so for me at least, the ability to swap between packs is worth it.
The electric system will be less hassle when I head to Japan in a few weeks time too. It's nice to have the extra bit of peace of mind too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave_Park_City, I get what your saying, but for me an electric bag is the opposite of simplification. It takes something essentially inert, which will almost certainly work for years without ever paying it any attention whatsoever, and turns it into something I have to drag into the house every night and remember to plug in. And if I forget, an essential piece of safety equipment might not work. I should probably point out that I'm a professional instructor / guide so I use my kit every day of the winter. As light as possible without compromising durability or reliability is what I want. Travel (by plane) isn't generally an issue for me as I either work locally or drive to other Alpine destinations.
If I need to recharge my canister, which I probably won't, I'll just go to my local shop. If I want to do a test-pull, I'll do it in the summer, when I have six months to make it to the shop.
I very, very rarely use a hydration bladder in winter, but it goes in the Arva pack no problem. Just sits off-centre.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
| Also, one final thought - a lot of the electric bags are touting "multiple deployments" as a selling point. If I get avalanched once in a day, I'm going home! The ability to do regular test pulls is reassuring, but not really a huge advantage (refills are cheap anyway). |
Depending which refills. ABS is about 25-30eur for refill plus all the hassle you have with going to store bringing old canister and handle back and getting new one. But otherwise I agree... if I would ever get caught in avi (hope I never will) and will get out of it, I'm going home not recharging my pack and continue skiing. That's for sure. But there's few occasions where this "multiple deployments" might be useful. One is, you come to parking, accidentally pull trigger and if you have no spare canister and handle with you, you can turn back and go home. Or worse one, you get caught in avi somewhere deep in backcountry, you get out and you still need to get to car. Surely I would pick easiest possible terrain after that, but having avi pack ready is still bonus, I guess. With something like this, electric packs can make you ski for rest of the day (or get back to car with pack ready for "new slide adventure"), while with "traditional" packs it would mean you go home. I spent so many days in backcountry or on lifts, I lost count of it ages ago already, yet it still needs to happen something like this to me, so I don't think this "multiple deployments" is main thing, I would care. But I guess nowadays electric pack are future. I'm using Scott E1 40L for second year now, and I actually like it better then my previous ABS. One thing it's easier to practice, and second, it's just much better backpack for me.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
| @Dave_Park_City, It takes something essentially inert, which will almost certainly work for years without ever paying it any attention whatsoever, and turns it into something I have to drag into the house every night and remember to plug in. And if I forget, an essential piece of safety equipment might not work. |
Dragging it into the house is probably ok, as on the end it's still electronic and I wouldn't really trust it outside on cold and humid all winter long, even if it's suppose to be made for that. But charging is, at least with Alpride system, not an issue. I charged it on beginning of season, put two lithium AA batteries in, and as thanks god, I didn't trigger it during skiing, it remained so until end of season. No need for charging or anything through whole last winter, and I have spend about 100 days outside with that pack turned on (I normally tuned it on at home, closed backpack and drive to location, and turned it off when I was back home). Only complain I have about Scott is this on/off system, where you need to open whole backpack to get to on/off switch, and it's a bit annoying if you have things packed on evening for leaving early next morning, and then you need to reopen pack to get to switch on morning.
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Interesting read, I'm considering my first avi bag, I rarely carry more than the basic shovel & probe
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| primoz wrote: |
| .......Only complain I have about Scott is this on/off system, where you need to open whole backpack to get to on/off switch, and it's a bit annoying if you have things packed on evening for leaving early next morning, and then you need to reopen pack to get to switch on morning. |
The idea is that you just leave it switched on - the indicator light through the mesh screen then lets you know it's on - and the light draws nigh on zero current.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, that's not really Scott's suggestion... when I was talking about this with several guys (from Scott dealers to people actually working at Scott) everyone were suggesting to turn it off when not in use. Probably you are right, it won't change much if anything at all, regarding maintaining charge (blinking led won't use literally no power), so maybe I will just leave it on to see how long batteries will last this way.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| primoz wrote: |
| @spyderjon, that's not really Scott's suggestion... when I was talking about this with several guys (from Scott dealers to people actually working at Scott) everyone were suggesting to turn it off when not in use. Probably you are right, it won't change much if anything at all, regarding maintaining charge (blinking led won't use literally no power), so maybe I will just leave it on to see how long batteries will last this way. |
Marc-Antoine, the Alpride founder/designer, told me it was fine to leave it on. My E1 was a pre-production prototype (albeit the final production version) and has been left on for years with no issues.
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Ok good to know  Btw... how long batteries last then if it's on all season long? Without deployment of course?
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You know it makes sense.
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To make it a little more obvious: The litric bag has been withdrawn from sale and is subject to voluntary recall due to unspecified technical reasons..........
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| primoz wrote: |
| Ok good to know Btw... how long batteries last then if it's on all season long? Without deployment of course? |
No current is being drawn from the batteries whilst the pack is charged. There is no supercapacitor 'drop-off' that the batteries need to top up. Only when the bag is deployed is charge drawn from the batteries to recharge the supercapacitor.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@spyderjon, thanks for this explanation. I'm not sure though if I buy "supercapacitor 'drop-off' that the batteries need to top up.", regardless if on or off, as when I took mine out of storage after "summer rest" it took a while being connected to USB cable to be fully charged again, even though it was just shut down and put to storage after end of last season. But I will give it try... afterall all that might happen is to change batteries once or twice, which, even with lithium batters is not really much of expense
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Latest I just got in an email
An Update on the Micon LiTRIC™ Avalanche Airbag
We’re reaching out to you because you expressed interest in learning more about the Micon LiTRIC™ Avalanche Airbag.
We started pursing the idea of a new avalanche airbag over a dozen years ago. Along that journey, we teamed up with the brilliant minds at Ortovox who shared our goal of developing an electronic avalanche airbag system that would set a new standard in mountain safety. The result is the Micon LiTRIC™ Avalanche Airbag.
Recently, we became aware of a possible technical issue with the airbag technology in the LiTRIC™ System - in rare cases, this impacts the airbag's inflation system. Although the issue is isolated and unlikely, it must be fixed. We are working with Ortovox to investigate.
Together with Ortovox, we have decided we will not bring this pack to market for the Winter 2022-2023 season. We will take the time necessary to ensure this pack meets the standard of quality and performance that Arc’teryx is known for.
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FAQ
