Extend Zermatt or train up to Wengen?

A snowHead

I wonder if anybody can help the wife and I plan the final three days of our first ski trip. We were originally booked for 5 nights in Zermatt from Jan 28 to Feb 2, however we've managed to re-work some annual leave to extend it to Feb 5. We're just deciding whether to stay in Zermatt for the extra 3 nights, or train up to Wengen and ski there too. As it's both our first time skiing and our first visit to Switzerland, we don't really know what to expect. We live about an hour's drive from the Chill Factore in Manchester, so we hope to be parallel skiing before we fly. The issue at hand is my wife's colleague, an avid skier, who explained Zermatt is positively Baltic and she'll be frozen solid. Naturally, she's quite anxious. Ideally, we'd just extend the Zermatt trip and go to Wengen next time for a week, but I'm wondering whether it's worth spending the final 3 nights in Wengen for the (presumably) higher temperatures and change of scenery. Anyway, enough rambling: extend Zermatt, or train to Wengen? Thanks!

A snowHead

I have to say you've chosen a hell of a place for your first ski trip!

Stay in Zermatt. You will not need a change of scenery after 5 days there. To put it another way, if you get bored of looking at the Matterhorn then skiing and mountains are not for you...

And don't worry about low temperatures. Zermatt has slopes at a large range of altitudes, and you're unlikely to get up to the glacier as a beginner anyway.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Stay in Zermatt, spend the extra travel money on lunch in Chez Vroney or Findlerhof in Findeln. That’s in the sunnega sector. A good selection of slopes there too.and of course an extra days skiing instead of travel. We have driven from Wengen to Zermatt, ( Tasch as Zermatt is car free) . That’s two hours at least. Assume at least the same of more as the change of train in Visp and travel up is at least 50 minutes alone. Zermatt for me after 53 years skiing is the best. Indeed a hell of a place to start!

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Zermatt may not be ideal for first time. But if you’re set to go there for the first 5 days, it doesn’t make sense to move for the next 3. Least of it Wengen.

I’m not a big fan of Wengen, at least not for short stay. The ski areas are disjointed, the train/lift combo confusing. It takes a while to figure out how to get around efficiently. For only 3 days, you’ll end up spending a good portion of your time on trains rather than on snow.

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1. Stay in Zermatt (or rather: stay at one place)
2. You’re way too optimistic about the level of skiing you’ll reach in such a short time. Also, skiing on an artificial slope at home is a great idea, but it is not comparable to the real mountains. You’ll need a week instruction in Zermatt too. And also after that you will not be skiing parallel, forget it).
3. in general it sounds you’re overthinking and overplanning things. And yet, as mentioned, Zermatt actually is not the best for beginners. A nice village with a couple of easy slopes at/near village-level would be a much better place.
As the beginners that you are, you will use max 5% of Zermatt’ pistes.
Sorry for sounding harsh, but I think you really need to lower your expectations..

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First skiing holiday in the Alps - stay in one place. Get lessons, and remember which slopes are recommended for you and then concentrate on improving your abilities on those same slopes.

At that early stage, just working out your way around a new resort is a challenge. You wouldn't get much at all from three days in Wengen other than the different views.

After all it is free

Hi and welcome to the forum.

After all that realism shared, I want to spread some optimism Happy

Good luck with your lessons and fingers crossed you will be skiing well and with control when you get to Swiss. It’s possible you could see more of the mountain whilst there if you develop your control fast. For example, I did half a day in Gstaad in Switzerland as a complete newb first timer without any experience. In that half day an instructor took me up and we did one or two runs back down, after spending a bit of time on the nursery slopes and carpet lift.

Years later i did a full week in La Plagne, was stuck on the nursery area practicing and booked a lesson to try and progress. During a half day lesson the instructor took me up and up and I enjoyed plenty of Blue runs after that for the rest of the week.

So, just saying, it’s possible to progress if you can make the adjustments required, are good at analysing and can apply what gifts of knowledge instructors give you.

It will depend to some extent on luck with the weather, and how fast you pick things up. Some people are comfortable on reds within a week, other takes 4 weeks or more to reach the same level. Hard to tell until you try. While Zermatt is not a classic beginners resort, it is the absolute top place to experience everything that’s great about a ski holiday - it’s absolutely magical. if you’re in Zermatt for a week, have had a decent amount of time in the Manchester fridge beforehand and book a few lessons to carry on progressing while you’re there, there is a reasonable amount you work up to (although it’ll be a little disjointed so you’ll have to travel between it):

- Really nice area of blues around mid mountain on gornergrat

-Some bits and pieces on Rothorn, inc access to all the fancy restaurants…

-a lot of the glacier area, if it’s not too windy - you’ll need your big coat in January though, it can get pretty parky, and you have to use drag lifts if you want ot avoid the steep bit at the top.

If you’re lucky with weather, progress at a fast rate and are feeling confident, you may even be able to get over to Italy, where there is oodles of suitable beginner terrain. And also pasta.

The non-skiing components of a ski holiday to Zermatt are superb: a non-exhaustive ticklist would include the Matterhorn, the worlds best standard of on mountain food, amazing gluhwein/hot choc late stops, marked walking tracks in the snow, the Matterhorn, the glacier ice cave, the Matterhorn, the gornergrat railway, the Matterhorn, the chcoclate box village including incredibly old wooden farm buildings and a magnificent church etc, various quirky snow related alternative sports, the Matterhorn, shopping (if that’s your thing) and the lively resort atmosphere, and the Matterhorn.

Some of this may help rescue things if you experience some really bad weather (you don’t get much out of deep powder as a beginner).

In summary, if you’re committed to Zermatt, it’s a probably one of the harder choices as a beginner we from a pure ski perspective, but I defy anyone to spend a week or more under the big toblerone and not have an amazing time - it’s one of THE great mountain resorts of the world

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I'd agree with others that I'd stick with Zermatt..
I wouldn't worry about it being particularly colder than elsewhere.
You're in the mountains in winter and very cold weather is possible in any resort but most of the time unless it's windy the temps are very pleasant for skiing end of Jan. You need appropriate layers and decent gloves but that's true anywhere.
The glacier can be pretty cold but you don't have to spend any time there if the weather is bad.
Zermatts a lovely area but be warned it's not cheap but nor is Wengen. Have a great time.

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@inthecold, welcome to SHs snowHead

Temps in Zermatt won't be much different in Wengen. Zermatt isn't that cold alpine wise. Strange comment tbf.

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Firstly, thanks very much for all the replies, the resounding consensus is “stay in Zermatt”, which is exactly what I was hoping for. I’ve already extended the stay at the hotel. So, again, thanks!

Secondly, I think people have got the wrong end of the stick. We’ve done about 7 hours, under instruction, at the artificial (snow) ski slope in Manchester, and we’re booked in for another 2 hour one-to-one this weekend. I’d say we’re progressing well, though not quite as far as I’d hoped, as my wife has only recently recovered from an injury. We’re currently at a stage where we can control our speed, snow plough corners, and go parallel on the straights, cutting across to the next corner. The current plan (more on this below) is to do a one hour lesson every week or two until Zermatt, where hopefully we can do the blue runs, alone. This feels pretty reasonable to me, so I’m not really sure if people think we’re hoping to fly down reds or something?! For info, we’re in our early thirties, fit, and do a fair amount walking, cycling, and running.

Thirdly, are we in fairyland thinking we can hop straight on the slopes without any lessons on real snow? I really don’t know based on the replies above. Honestly, we’ve got friends and colleagues who’ve said “what you taking lessons for? You just need to start and stop! At worst, fall down!” (seriously, not joking). We dismissed this outright, obviously, hence the lessons on the artificial slope, so we really rather thought we were overdoing it!! If the consensus is that we really need lessons on snow, what do you think about continuing the artificial slope plan, and do a whole day with an instructor on the first day we’re there? Or do you think we’re throwing good money after bad on this artificial slope?

Anyway, hopefully that’s a little clearer. I really appreciate the replies.

@inthecold, The thing you really need to realize is that the scale of things in the mountains is completely different than any artificial piste.
And that blue pistes in the Alps still can have steep, and/or icy parts. And these parts can be as long as the full length of the artificial piste in Manchester. Or much longer. And they can be terribly crowded. Or narrow.....etc etc.

Just take lessons. It's great fun to be with likeminded people during your first week of skiing, a week you'll never forget. For good reasons. But, contrary, it can also be because of unfortunate reasons. You or your partner can have an accident (hurting yourself, or someone else (think about that!)), or, as happens quite often, become afraid of the speed, or the steeps, or the ice, with the risk of never loosing that fear, and never wanting to ski again.

You know it makes sense.

@inthecold, the only person who can really advise is an instructor who has seen you. But my guess is that there will be unanticipated challenges on real slopes as well as successes of techniques you find working for you. At an early stage I think most people benefit from having repeated input, if not joining a class then several private lessons at intervals through the week. The aim is to end the week feeling you want to go skiing again.

By the way, don't underestimate the challenges of navigating your way around a real ski resort. Much easier having someone showing you the areas which are best for you to consolidate and develop your skills, rather than trust to your interpretation of signposts and piste maps which can lead you to unpleasant experiences on pistes you aren't yet ready for.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

It sounds like you have a reasonable idea of what you're doing already.

I'd personally use the money that you were planning to spend on lessons here (between now and when you go), and spend it on lessons in Zermatt instead.

A snowHead

@mikeycharlton, +1
Given the variety of slopes and multiple ways to get up the mountain in Zermatt, having an instructor to start you off will ensure that you don't head off to slopes that scare the bejesus out of you on day one. "Blue" runs will feel far steeper than anything on an indoor slope.

A snowHead

+2

Not all blues are created equal. Some are bluer than others. Joining lessons has the advantage of the instructor taking you to the appropriate slopes that you’ll enjoy, rather than just “make it down in one piece”. Better yet, if you can swing the money, have a few semi-private lesson so the instructor can show you where to do along with how to ski the various conditions you encounter.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I too think lessons in resort on the slopes is super helpful. Worth doing half day or full day lessons.

On my second ever full week of skiing, I was in morning adult group lessons. Some folks had 5 weeks skiing under their belt, I had 5.5 days prior skiing experience + x2 half day of lessons. However, I learnt loads from the instructor, loads from watching others in the group. I progressed really fast. The instructor took us on blues, reds and narrow blacks. We did moguls too with instruction. The instructor is also useful as a guide, pointing out conditions and runs to do and when is best based on ability. All this boosted my confidence to get around in the afternoons and explore.

I'm so glad I took lessons on my second ever trip / week.

In hindsight, I would have taken lessons for the first ever week. I would have got to explore so much more of La Plagne in France.

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Merino wool layers and kafi schnapps in Zermatt. I LOVE Wengen but stay there and pay out for lessons there for first few days. Chill factor is lovely for a bit of technique but useless for experience on slope.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I would strongly recommend lessons, ideally an adult group. Skiing is counter-intuitive and should be taught by professionals. Otherwise you'll just pick up bad habits and end up a fast/dangerous skier, and never really get the most out of the sport.

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@HilbertSpace, agree. Also theres a risk of going down the blue that should be a red in every resort

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I would give Summit ski school a call, explain your situation and see what they say.

After all it is free

Just another voice saying skiing in a fridge really isn’t anything to go by. You may well progress fast but you can’t count on it! Also so much depends on conditions on the mountain. Some days I have flown down black runs and other days, other resorts I wouldn’t dare even try. You don’t get that variation in the snow dome where it’s broadly the same day in day out. No poor vis, no ice, no wind… book lessons, take it easy, don’t have too high expectations for your first week. I’m sure you will have a great time.

Also, you can’t make a wrong turn in a fridge and gone down a black instead of a red.

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I'd stick with the Chillfactore lessons AND have lessons in resort (you can't have too many when you're starting out). Morning lessons for the week and then spend the afternoon practising what you've been taught.

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@inthecold, I'd definitely plan on having some instruction in resort. There's loads of stuff you won't have learned at Chill Factor, like how to ride chairlifts and what to do in poor visibility. I think your idea of a full day with an instructor on day one in Zermatt is a good one. You'll get a lot from that day of individual attention and advice on what slopes you should try.

Something that often seems to get overlooked is the safety code for the slopes:

https://www.skischool.co.uk/keep-safe-using-the-ski-way-code

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@inthecold, my wife and I have skied for over 50 years since we were children. After 30 years we had a lesson with summit in Zermatt in 2020. It was to iron out any real faults that may have crept in. Very worth it, although not cheap. Summits instructors are nearly all excellent English speakers. Our instructor was a farmer from Somerset!
Great skier though.

+1 for Summit ski school, Mr P jnr worked for them for a couple of seasons pre COVID.

You know it makes sense.

OK, I'm sold. We're going to do a little less at the Chill Factor between now and Zermatt, and contact Summit about some lessons for when we arrive. I'm thinking a full day to start, then maybe a few more over the following 3-4 days.

@j b, your point really sold it to me. I was already feeling pretty overwhelmed by the prospect of navigating the resort, mountain, ski hire/pass/etiquette, and all the usual holiday stuff, which is why we wanted to learn the basics before we arrive – one less thing to think about. It honestly didn't occur to me (perhaps naively) that taking lessons is one way to explore the mountain and find our feet before we go off on our own – again, this whole thread has been a revelation, as we really thought we were overdoing it. So, thanks very much for all the replies.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@inthecold, can I suggest a half dsy (morning) lesson
Even if you are an athlete, a full day is alot physically.
With a morning lesson you get chance to have lunch and also then spend a bit of time putting it in to practice and/or getting yourself in a sauna to sort your aching limbs out.

A snowHead

@Nadenoodlee, you can, thank you. It's a fair point. I guess we like the idea of an intense starter day to get us going, though maybe a couple of morning lessons would better suit. Summit's website says the full day is 5 hours in total, with an optional 1 hour break for lunch. This doesn't sound too bad, though I'm not really sure how the lessons work and how many different slopes we're likely to cover.

A snowHead

@inthecold, depends on your progress and fitness - get on your wall squats now

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@inthecold, you will NOT cover many slopes. Because 1) as a beginner the vast majority of slopes are simply too steep/difficult, and 2) the focus will very much be on learning, which is best done on the same, easy, safe, quiet slope. (Because repetition is best to learn the basics)

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A personal opinion is that if you are fit, walk ,cycle and run five hours of lessons in a day will not be particularly physically taxing, though if the instruction is intensive it could be mentally tiring.
Zermatt is a pretty big domain which has three separate though linked areas. It is highly unlikely that in a half day as a beginner you will ski in more than one area so at least three sessions will be necessary to get a flavour of the different areas with instruction.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

5 hours of lesson can be very intense. It’s not just physical fatigue you need to worry about. You also want to actually learn and reinforce what you learn. Your brain can’t absorb 5 hours of non-stop stream of new technique. So a good chunk of that 5 hours will be supervised practices. Not a bad idea per se. But many consider a half day instruction with afternoon practice on your own more cost efficient.

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@abc, +1. Our lesson was 2 hours. Plenty for you,in the old,and then practice, practice.

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@inthecold, (predictive text!)

After all it is free

@twoodwar, actually in the US/Canada there’re a lot of full day lessons. I have taken many of those full day lessons. (And our half day lesson are typically 3 hours)

So that’s why I wrote what I wrote. The afternoon is often supervised practice. Students are taken to part of the mountain to be challenged and utilized what new skill they had (semi-)mastered. It makes for a very enjoyable day. On top of learning new tricks, student were typically introduced to new terrain that were never previously attempted. So with each of such day, the mountain got a lot bigger…

With a 2hr lesson, there may not be enough time to get to those “newly accessible” terrain with the instructor. You may need to go to those terrains on your own. Hopefully, your instructor will give you suggestion of where to go.

@inthecold, if still possible to cancel without loosing money I would suggest to go to a quieter/easier resort. Zermatt is great but maybe not for the first timers - ski passes ain’t cheap and you would use only small bits of slopes. A smaller and quieter resort is better for learning.

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Zermatt is certainly expensive, but there are plenty of straightforward blue runs. Whereas I certainly think you can get better value for money as a beginner, I'm not sure I really buy the idea that any resort is bad for a beginner given decent instruction.

Help!!

Extend Zermatt or train up to Wengen?

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