 Poster: A snowHead
|
@ribblevalleyblue, living here in the Mountains I can assure you most food, except extortionate fresh leg of lamb and good beef is no more expensive than the UK.
Agreed we are not shopping in the actual ski resort but in the main town Briancon, 10km down the road, with around three big supermarkets.
We also have a loyalty card for one and the discounts are crazy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| ribblevalleyblue wrote: |
| @Hurtle, that maybe so, but why is food so expensive in the French mountains? |
I think it's more a case of food prices simply being higher up any mountain. Which is reasonable enough if you consider the logistics and which I suspect applies just as much in the Welsh or Scottish mountains as the Alps. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this summer, we found prices in France and Switzerland to be comparable with back home in the UK, in terms of valley supermarkets. And some things were noticeably cheaper: like wine, beer and coffee. The other thing, certainly in Switzerland, is that meats in the mountain supermarket tend to be quality cuts - there's not cheap fatty mince or watery sliced ham on sale.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
IMV, it's not the cost or quality or even availability of standard food stuffs that is the issue. It's simply that I already have packets/tins/jars of rice, pasta, baked beans, breakfast cereals, curry sauces etc. in the cupboard at home. If I'm driving to an Alp then I usually have loads of room in the car, so putting some stuff from the cupboard into the car, and taking any remainder home at the end isn't a problem. If you buy a packet of cereals, rice, flour or pasta in resort, then chances are you'll be taking some of it home at the end of the 1 or 2 week holiday anyway. Or just bining it.
We don't normally take fresh veg, but stuff like potatoes, carrots and onions basically last forever so no problems there. We only take meats that we can keep chilled en-route, and we stop at a supermarket at the bottom of the hill for milk, wine, Pelforth, cheese, fresh meat and Genepi. We also visit the local farmers market in resort, and buy (too much!) 3-year old Beaufort Cheese, and knobly sausage, and a bottle of the most evil looking local hooch d'jour whatever that may be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@Judwin, the dried stuff is still fine it is just the biosecurity issue with fresh meats and dairy that is a direct result of refusing to adhere to EU food safety. If the government had aligned in the Brexit agreement it would not be a problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@Weathercam, My point is not in supermarkets, I cannot agree or disagree with that from recent experience as I have not compared France to other countries, my point is eating out, working in the food industry and logistics I fully understand that up a mountain costs more, but France is far more expensive. Not just the mountains, last time i was in Paris it made London seem value !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@clarky999, maybe but I'm not driving up to an hour to find out
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Weathercam wrote: |
| @ribblevalleyblue, living here in the Mountains I can assure you most food, except extortionate fresh leg of lamb and good beef is no more expensive than the UK. |
Hmmm.... I was in Val Thorens last week and, to name but 2 items, chicken breasts were €3 each and bananas €2.80 per kilo (versus £1.50 and £1 per kilo respectively in Lidl in the UK).
So for "no more expensive" you can read "double." 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Bergmeister, is that a fair comparison though? Maybe you should be comparing Lidl with Lidl, or a supermarket in VT with a Co-op in a small UK village.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Bergmeister, Chicken Breasts are more expensive in Marks and Spencers than Lidl in the UK as well. Why did you not compare the prices with those on sale in Lidl in Bourg st Maurice or other discount shops?
We were having a family discussion last night about smuggling food into France for Christmas dinner. The items of interest are:
Brussel sprouts (we think this is legal since it is an EU desiganted area of origin)
Parsnips (not sure if they are even legal in France)
King Edward potatoes (all I recall seeing in French supermarkets are waxy varieties. I'm really not certain about these since we may be importing potato blight)
Forerib of beef (definately illegal, and not sure we can get it in the apartment's oven!)
Cristmas pudding (I'm not sure we can supply certificates of origin for all the ingredients)
Stilton (I think dairy products are banned and France has some excellent alternatives)
Flask of coffee with milk added (I think this was discussed on another thread and is legal)
What are the collective views on these items, what should I take and what should not risk. Please take this as a casual discussion I am not really advocating breaking the law.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Bergmeister, Knowing which supermarket you used would help. In Tignes, the Carrefour is closer in prices to a big supermarket than the Spar and Sherpa are to the Casino Geant in Albertville.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@johnE, we live in central France. Brussels sprouts are almost always available in our nearest big town supermarchés (not a very big town!), especially at this time of year. Parsnips too (panais, if you need help there, but they are pretty recognisable! And we have never been stopped by the Gendarmes on the way home). Floury potatoes are also no problem. Just look for the recommended uses on the bag... Beef, yeah, no problem either. Stilton, well, I know a shop in LDA that stocks it, but that's rare. And no chance of Christmas pud, sorry, so maybe that's the one you should take a punt on. Or just eat one when you get home. I really don't understand all these issues - don't worry so much, just have a lovely Christmas in France! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
and eat French food instead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@Jo225, from @Hells Bells, link it appears that Chrstmas pud will be the only one allowed. I have now sourced the other ingredients anyway  I like a challenge.
As an aside does anyone else traditionally eat pease pudding, ham and pickled onions on New Year's day?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@johnE, nope. Love them all, but never on NYD. Dad used to do a leg of pork.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Hells Bells, Yes a leg of pork is the usual component. Well not the whole leg put part of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@johnE, ham and please pudding sarnies all over the holidays
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@holidayloverxx, us too but not a specific NY thing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@Hells Bells, @JohnE, the MotorHome forums have been discussing this, and
someone's researched this answer
https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/53395-taking-fresh-food-into-france/
Quote
Albertslad - 2022-07-24 4:26 PM
Well, to “post colonial and post European Union Brits it apparently seems silly, and making that last pint or two of milk last as long as possible makes sense.
But it’s illegal, all the time, not just if you get caught.
Why risk the wrath of the French customs?
Is it a game?
Bon voyage.
But is it illegal? I'd be interested to know where you gained that impression.
This is a bit conjectural, but I think the EU has fairly recently (post Brexit) clarified the way border controls should be interpreted in the case of people and goods arriving by ferry or the tunnel. The regulations were intended primarily to control commercial imports of plants and plant materials, plus animals and animal products. However, trying to conduct the kinds of controls envisaged in those regulations at sea ports and the chunnel terminal in the case of passenger coaches, motorhomes, caravanners - and any others entering the EU with food for their onward journeys - could only result in crippling delays that would. eventually, feed back into delays for commercial operators.
So, to avoid making a mountain out of the proverbial molehill, they seem to have relaxed the requirement for biological and phyto security inspections where the quantities of foodstuffs involved are small and are intended for consumption by those transporting them and not for entry commercially into the European single market.
I have found this - make of it what you will, I'm not an international lawyer!
COMMISSION DELEGATED REGULATION (EU) 2019/2122
of 10 October 2019
supplementing Regulation (EU) 2017/625 of the European Parliament and of the Council as regards certain categories of animals and goods exempted from official controls at border control posts, specific controls on passengers’ personal luggage and on small consignments of goods sent to natural persons which are not intended to be placed on the market and amending Commission Regulation (EU) No 142/2011.
Note that it says "exempted from official controls at borders". It continues:
Whereas:
(1) Article 48 of Regulation (EU) 2017/625 empowers the Commission to adopt rules exempting certain categories of animals and goods from official controls at border control posts, when such an exemption is justified. Point (d)(ii) of Article 53(1) of Regulation (EU) 2017/625 empowers the Commission to adopt rules concerning specific official control tasks performed by customs authorities or other public authorities, insofar as those tasks are not already falling under the responsibility of those authorities, on passengers’ personal luggage.
(2) These rules are substantially linked and many are intended to be applied in tandem. In the interest of simplicity and transparency, as well as to facilitate their application and avoid a multiplication of rules, they should therefore be laid down in a single act rather than in a number of separate acts with many cross-references and the risk of duplication. These rules often serve common purposes and refer to complementary activities of operators and competent authorities. Therefore, it is appropriate to group together these rules in a single Delegated Regulation.
(3) Where rules establishing exemptions from official controls at border control posts are adopted, conditions, such as adequate control arrangements, should be established to ensure that no unacceptable risks to public, animal and plant health are incurred where such animals and goods enter the Union (1)OJ L 95, 7.4.2017, p. 1. ENOfficial Journal of the European Union 12.12.2019 L 321/45
(4) ( my underlining) Exemptions from official controls at border control posts for products which form part of travellers’ personal luggage, for products for consumption by the crew and passengers on board means of transport operating internationally, and for products sent as small consignments to private persons already exist under Council Directive 97/78/EC (2). For the sake of legal clarity and in order to ensure a consistent application of those exemptions given that Directive 97/78/EC is repealed with effect from 14 December 2019, it is appropriate to lay down provisions on such exemptions in this Regulation. Those exemptions concern certain categories of animals and goods which, although they enter the Union, are not to be placed on the market. (5) In order to ensure consistency of Union legislation, Member States should continue to carry out appropriate risk- based controls with a view to preventing the introduction into the Union of certain invasive alien species, as required by Regulation (EU) No 1143/2014 of the European Parliament and of the Council (3).
............................................
( Pursuant to Article 48(d) and (e) of Regulation (EU) 2017/625, products which form part of passenger’s personal luggage and are intended for their personal consumption or use and small consignments of goods sent to natural persons which are not intended to be placed on the market should be exempted from official controls at border control posts. Concerning small consignments of goods sent to natural persons which are not intended to be placed on the market, Member States should carry-out risk-based controls. The possible risk of introducing pathogenic agents or diseases into the Union through the introduction of products of animal origin should be considered in measures regulating the introduction of such consignments or products.
I also found this:
REGULATION (EU) 2017/625 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2017
on official controls and other official activities performed to ensure the application of food and feed law, rules on animal health and welfare, plant health and plant protection products, amending Regulations (EC) No 999/2001, (EC) No 396/2005, (EC) No 1069/2009, (EC) No 1107/2009, (EU) No 1151/2012, (EU) No 652/2014, (EU) 2016/429 and (EU) 2016/2031 of the European Parliament and of the Council, Council Regulations (EC) No 1/2005 and (EC) No 1099/2009 and Council Directives 98/58/EC, 1999/74/EC, 2007/43/EC, 2008/119/EC and 2008/120/EC, and repealing Regulations (EC) No 854/2004 and (EC) No 882/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council, Council Directives 89/608/EEC, 89/662/EEC, 90/425/EEC, 91/496/EEC, 96/23/EC, 96/93/EC and 97/78/EC and Council Decision 92/438/EEC (Official Controls Regulation)
(Text with EEA relevance)
(OJ L 95, 7.4.2017, p. 1)
Amended by:
?M1
Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/478 of 14 January 2019 L 82 4 25.3.2019
?M2
Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2019/2127 of 10 October 2019 L 321 111 12.12.2019
?M3
Regulation (EU) 2021/1756 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 October 2021 L 357 27 8.10.2021
Corrected by:
?C1
Corrigendum, OJ L 137, 24.5.2017, p. 40 (2017/625) 02017R0625 — EN — 28.01.2022 — 003.001 — 1
Which goes on to say (my underlining as above):
"Article 48
Animals and goods exempted from official controls at border control posts
The Commission shall adopt delegated acts in accordance with Article 144 to supplement this Regulation concerning rules establishing the cases where, and the conditions under which, the following categories of animals and goods are exempted from Article 47, and when such exemption is justified:
(a) goods sent as trade samples or as display items for exhibitions, which are not intended to be placed on the market;
(b) animals and goods intended for scientific purposes;
© goods on board means of transport operating internationally which are not unloaded and are intended for consumption by the crew and passengers;
(d) goods which form part of passengers personal luggage and are intended for personal consumption or use;
Taken together, (and there are doubtless further references I haven't found ) I think the above extracts explain why searches for animal and plant derived materials on motorhomes etc. are not being conducted at border control posts. If taken in "luggage", and for "personal consumption" - so not in commercial quantities - they are exempt from controls.
Having said that, it seems it would be wise not to "push the envelope" and try to transport large quantities of such goods, as the reserved right to stop and search is clearly there if the authorities have reasonable grounds for suspicion.
Quote
laimeduckVeteran
laimeduck
Posted July 30
Quote
Brian Kirby - 2022-07-29 4:48 PM
Taken together, (and there are doubtless further references I haven't found ) I think the above extracts explain why searches for animal and plant derived materials on motorhomes etc. are not being conducted at border control posts. If taken in "luggage", and for "personal consumption" - so not in commercial quantities - they are exempt from controls.
Having said that, it seems it would be wise not to "push the envelope" and try to transport large quantities of such goods, as the reserved right to stop and search is clearly there if the authorities have reasonable grounds for suspicion.
The fact that there are no facilities or staff at the tunnel at Folkestone at the French checkpoint would tend to confirm your deductions here Brian.
I am sure that if that nice M. Macron could find a way of delaying us Brits going on holiday even more than he does now by invoking obscure rules, he would jump on it with alacrity!
Jeremy
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
That said, I still wouldn't risk meat or dairy, as being searched and caught might jeopardise future 6 month visa applications for us, but it might explain why no ones looking unless a search is carried out for another reason.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@johnE, sorry if I came across as a bit snitty earlier. I'm glad you're sorted now, & I hope you have a lovely Christmas. Enjoy your Christmas pud!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Snowbikers, that's really interesting. We know quite a few people who've come over with motorhomes loaded up with cheeses & meat products, and none of them have had any problems. I thought they were just lucky... Not something we would do ourselves either, but then the only thing I miss is Marmite, and that's OK to bring over anyway
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@Jo225, It's OK I was posting with a bit of tongue in cheek (not ox tongue, that appears to have disappeared from my local supermarket). We were having a family discussion planning our Christmas dinner over a couple glasses of wine at the time and just how close to an British Christmas dinner we would like to get. Other options included a goose, which I cannot recall seeing in a French supermarket (or British one for that matter, these have to be purchased in advance from local farms) or just pre roasted chickens from the resort shop.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We took a lot of food into Europoort for our 2.5 week holiday in June. No one was interested
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
We’ve done it many times to France with zero check, taking frozen ready-meals from “Cook” as well as sufficient dog food when travelling for the summer season. We drive FR-CH-FR route to Châtel and normally stop at the Intermarche in Les-Hopitaux-Neufs,just before crossing into CH, to stock on groceries. We also don’t have an international driving license or carry spare head-light bulbs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| johnE wrote: |
@Bergmeister, Chicken Breasts are more expensive in Marks and Spencers than Lidl in the UK as well. Why did you not compare the prices with those on sale in Lidl in Bourg st Maurice or other discount shops?
|
I did. We bought chicken breasts in Lidl, Albertville and they were (surprisingly) more or less the same price as in Val Thorens Carrefour.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
