 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello!
I'm planning to sign up for a UCPA off-piste course in the first week of January. I'm looking for advice on location/ course level.
1) I've read in other forums that Argentier would be a good option for the early season. Does anyone agree or have alternative suggestions?
2) I'm deciding if I should sign up for introduction vs. advanced. Mostly because I'm from the USA and not sure what to expect from European off-piste. I've been skiing 25+ days a season for the last 3-4 years. Most of my skiing is in the Northeast (VT/ NH/ Maine). In resorts, I'm comfortable going down almost any terrain (although I steer clear of tight glades in steep terrain). I got into backcountry two years ago, but I don't have avalanche training yet, so most of my backcountry experience is low-level glades. I'm comfortable in the backcountry, although similar to difficult terrain in a resort, I don't have perfect form and am not going to rip down something more difficult aggressively. From what I've read in other forums, the off-piste courses can be a mixed bag, so I'm confused about what would be best to sign up for. I would hate to be in a situation where I'm in an introduction course, spending the entire time waiting on others, but I also don't want to be in a situation where I am the slow poke in the advanced group.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You can read my experience with UCPA off-piste course here: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=159012&highlight=
It was nice, but in my experience, even the basics were REALLY difficult. There was one guy in my group that had 20 years of experience and he was a good off-piste skier already, and even him found that challenging and not beginner-off-piste friendly.
Maybe it was just my instructor, but at least for my experience, I think you should go for the beginner one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I spent the winter in Chamonix last year and observed a fair number of the UCPA groups skiing at Argentiere. My most consistent impression was of repeatedly encountering little heaps of skiers dotted around, having toppled over, in the off piste terrain - then skiing on 20/30 metres to find the UKPA instructor waiting patiently for them all to pick themselves back up again.
I'm assuming those were the beginners groups and if you're comfortable skiing US double diamonds I would be surprised if much of the standard Grands Montets terrain would faze you (though there are clearly more extreme options in/from Argentiere!). However I didn't come away with a great impression of either the level of instruction or the group management skills from the UKPA teams I observed.
Appreciate UKPA are relatively cheap but if you're making the effort to come to the Alps and ski Cham, would you consider investing a bit more? Neither of these might be quite what you are looking for, but FWIW:
- the local BASS school runs off piste courses in Argentiere which are excellent for technical instruction (although in my experience they don't tend to hit the super steeps)
- guiding company Off Piste Performance offers weeklong courses which pair up an off piste tech instructor with a mountain guide, giving you input on technique and on understanding/managing mountain conditions safely - really important for skiing off piste in Europe where only the pistes themselves have avalanche protection.
(I have done both of the above and got a lot out of each - others may have other thoughts - and appreciate they are both a lot higher cost than UKPA.)
Lastly - as you may already be aware, Argentiere (and Chamonix more widely) have relatively small, poorly connected off piste areas compared to many Alpine resorts and may feel more limited that early in the season than somewhere like Tignes/Val d'Isere or the Three Valleys. The benefits of Chamonix are the easy lift access to very remote, extreme high mountain areas, usually glaciated - but I am not sure how much of those you'd see through the UKPA course (or, to be fair, the BASS course I mentioned).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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It is true that it's a mixed bag but the good guides keep their groups at the right level in my experience. If you are sticking out of either end of a group in terms of ability then I would be speaking to them in bar at the end of day one and they may be able to move you to the correct group - especially if you're on your own.
From what you've said, I would book the advanced course and also consider Val Thorens.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've done a fair bit at the UCPA and the one they have in Argentiere is excellent. Intermediate should be fine as the terrain around Grands Montets really isn't that exciting: they'll most likely keep you within the ski resort boundary. The food is good and there is a decent social environment.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Intermediate should be fine as the terrain around Grands Montets really isn't that exciting: they'll most likely keep you within the ski resort boundary. |
Would you recommend a different resort then?
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Being in the resort boundary isn’t a ‘bad thing’ like you might think it is. We don’t have inbound / outbound definitions
Where the entire ski area is safe. We have off piste and on piste, and anything off but in the resort ‘boundary’ is proper stuff. So you can b in resort boundary, off piste, off the backside of a col or whatever feeling properly in the wilderness.
Unless you’re touring and on the overnight tours you won’t really get out of the the resort boundaries, but that’s not to say you won’t do cool stuff!
There def a different guiding style between French and my experience of North American. Much more “see you at the top” and leaving you to do icy kick turns of death from the French guides rather than the guide getting his shocks out and making nicer corners.
Pick intermediate - you’ll have harmonisation on day 1 anyway.
I keep returning to the Serre Che UCPA for off piste cos the do a good course ‘grande trace’ where you get to go to la grave, le pey etc and the centre is well nice, and not much  about with busses. But could be tricky very early jan for coverage. I prefer it over Argentiere or Cham UCPAs tbh. Also preferred Val T. I’ve been back to the Argentiere UCPA so much only because so few have split boarding.
If you decide on Argentere first week Jan say hi, I’ll be there on my own too.
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Argentiere ucpa is a great centre and great for off piste. You don't need a massive area just good knowledge which the guides have in abundance. If you want to challenge yourself go for the advanced course as they will assess you in the first day and position people around if needed. If you're reasonably fit and a strong skier then go for it. The 1st weeks of Jan are the best time as it's not so busy around but obviously it's all about the snow. Wish I could be going to, enjoy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@szendit, as the others have suggested they will move you about on the first day if you're obviously above the standard. The 'expert' group is definitely cheeky and will definitely take you down some good stuff e.g. 40+ couloirs if that's what you're up to.
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@szendit, firstly, I would not go to Chamonix or Argentiere at your point of skiing experience. I would go to Tignes/VDI the area has much more easily accessible high altitude skiing (if the snow is not great.) You want to be skiing as much as you can and not faffing about on buses and queuing to get up the mountain. Chamonix is great for classic off-piste itineraries and high alpine stuff but I found getting buses, trains and queuing a chore, great if you have a particular goal in mind. The quality of the guiding/tuition varies a great deal at UCPAs, you might get an IFGMA/UIAGM guide and/or instructor who is superb or you might get a really inexperienced beginner or a really excellent professional young guide - it is a bit of a lottery really.
If I was you travelling from NA then I would go to Tignes/VDI and research and find a super guide and instructor, folks on here will recommend you some great people. Do some group stuff and do some privates if the conditions are epic. Plenty of course options - as a relatively inexperienced skier coming from NA I would not risk the UCPAs, I have had some superb guiding from the UCPAs and some real cack too. You could find yourself in a big group having a complete nightmare. Tignes/VDI will absolutely blow you away, Cham can wait a bit!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've done a few Ucpa now. Questy to the OP: how old are you? Ucpa is a bit like youth hostel .. it is aimed at 'younger' people.... Mid 30s tops. I've been when older, and, you shouldn't have any issues.... But the ' mindset' of Ucpa is different to most euro trips, and poss v diff to what you'll find in the U S. You'll get a proper 'euro' experience... Our guide in Argent we called 'swiss tony'.... We did one sketchy offpiste route to pick up his fags dropped off a chair lift.. . Go with an open mind, a love of the mountains, and you'll have a ball. The skiing will be what it is... If there is snow, you'll ski it..... On one memorable trip with Ucpa we learned to grass ski .... But I'd go back in a heartbeat.
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