La Grave newbie

A snowHead

I've read some of the posts about La Grave but just wanted some specific advice if anyone can help.

I plan to spend March in La Grave next year. I was there two years ago around the same time and snow shoed up to the refuge Chancel on my own without any issues.

I'm reasonably confident skiing red on piste and did a course 'Ski tout la neige" with the CAF before lockdown but I have never done any ski randonnee.

My plan is to spend a week in Alpe d'huez with ESF lessons in the morning to get my skiing level up. Then spend the month in La Grave starting off by skinning up to the refuge Chancel and skiing back down and then build up slowly from there. I plan to get guided instruction before doing anything more adventurous.

So my questions are:

1) does that sound sensible?
2) what should I be asking the instructor in Alpe d'Huez?
3) can anyone recommend guides in La Grave where I can get instruction?
4) what is the best way to find other people to ski with when I am there?

Thanks for your help

######

Bonjour,

J'ai lu certains des messages concernant La Grave, mais je voulais simplement obtenir des conseils spécifiques, si quelqu'un peut m'aider.

Je prévois de passer le mois de mars à La Grave l'année prochaine. J'y étais il y a deux ans à peu près à la même époque et j'ai fait de la raquette jusqu'au refuge Chancel tout seul sans problème.

Je suis raisonnablement confiant en ski rouge sur piste et j'ai fait un cours "Ski tout la neige" avec le CAF avant le lockdown, mais je n'ai jamais fait de randonnée à ski.

Mon plan est de passer une semaine à l'Alpe d'Huez avec des cours ESF le matin pour améliorer mon niveau de ski. Puis de passer le mois à La Grave en commençant par monter en peau de phoque jusqu'au refuge Chancel et redescendre en ski, puis de progresser lentement à partir de là. J'ai l'intention de suivre des cours guidés avant de m'aventurer.

Mes questions sont donc les suivantes :

1) est-ce que cela semble raisonnable ?
2) Que dois-je demander au moniteur à l'Alpe d'Huez ?
3) quelqu'un peut-il me recommander des guides à La Grave où je peux obtenir des instructions ?
4) Quelle est la meilleure façon de trouver d'autres personnes avec qui skier lorsque je serai là-bas ?

Merci pour votre aide

A snowHead

Doesn't sound particularly sensible to me. I don't think you will enjoy skiing at La Grave until your level improves substantially. At a minimum, you need to be very comfortable on black runs in all conditions and have good off-piste and mountain awareness. If it hasn't snowed in a few days then La Grave is generally big icy moguls and tree roots.

Skinning up whilst the lift is running to Refuge Chancel is ill-advised. You'll likely be sent flying by a downhill skier on one of the many blind corners on the traverse to return to P1 and encounter very difficult skinning conditions.

The seasonaire community is very welcoming but I think you may struggle to find partners due to your inexperience.

Whilst La Grave has plenty of skiing for mere mortals, it is a serious environment demanding respect. Better to spend some time in another resort and gain some proper off-piste experience first.

Sorry to be blunt!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Another option would be to spend most of your time in AdH to get your grounding and only pop over to La Grave when there are good conditions.

You can develop your skiing in more flattering piste conditions in AdH rather than having to brave the bottom section and return funnels in LG which can get pretty rutted, unpleasant and hard-bumped out when there’s not been fresh snow.

3) Patrick Guillaume is one of the AdH guides who regularly guides in LG - he also does La Sentinelle for the Black Crow founders - look that up on YouTube - informal skinning tours in cool spots.
http://youtube.com/v/TCvsUK0Smxs
http://youtube.com/v/NvAhRSI40TU

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Second, what @JackSkier, says.....

There are other ski-tour routes, one in the forest to P2 but that is quite technical.

Ditch the idea of staying in La Grave, as if it doesn't snow you'll be at odds to do something, that said, I even forgot just as I was typing this, but.....there is much safer / intermediate skiing / ski-touring to be had just above La Grave in Le Chazelet.

Though slides are frequent coming down off the plateau, know of three separate mates caught!

Stay in ADH and if you have transport then venture further afield, or you could up sticks and move to Serre Che, but with ski-touring kit and a relationship with an ADG guide then Im sure he'll show you good slack country to be had, over the Sarenne for instance.

And if you have hospitality skills then friends who run a hotel there are looking for staff and they make sure that you get enough time off in the day to ski etc!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@haffanidea, La Grave does not sound like a sensible location choice considering your skiing experience. What are the objectives of your trip?

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I’d agree with @Grinning. ADH is a much better place to cut your teeth for both general off piste and a bit of light touring. If you have transport, LG is about 45 mins to and hour away so totally doable for a day trip.

ADH is quite underrated as an off piste resort IMO. There’s a great range of things to do, some of which are quite serious and/of off the beaten track

Oli Sebbar is ADH would be a good guy to contact about lessons there

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Thanks very much for the responses so far, in brief:

@JackSkier: fair point about skinning up when the lifts are open and no worries about being blunt.

@Grinning, Arno: With regards AdH I can't really afford to stay there over the whole period, plus I don't have any transport.

@Weathercm: How feasible is the access to the routes from Le Chazelet and the routes from Villar d'Arene at this time of year? Also thanks for the job info. I'm currently working remotely anyway that's how I have this opportunity.

@BobinCH My objectives are just to gain experience of ski randonnee and spend some time in the mountains. I'm not fixated on skiing La Grave and agree with all your suggestions that it is probably not in my reach at the moment. I just enjoyed my time there and want some more Smile

After all it is free

@haffanidea, in normal years, the touring around Chazelet, Villar d’Arene (assume you’d be heading into the Ecrins from there) and Col du Lautaret should be pretty good in March. This year, anything south facing was pretty sub-optimal but this was an exceptional season

@haffanidea, if you don't have transport you'll have to rely on your thumb, which plenty of people do, and it's not too bad as a single person, but there again if you're not too experienced should you be touring on your own?

Even if you are experienced it's not deemed to be the best of ideas, though again plenty of people, me included do.

Chazlelet is good for touring, in that you can buy a randonnée ski pass to use the lift to get you out of the resort, if you can call it that Laughing

Sounds like you're on a budget, so maybe you'll be able to get cheaper accommodation away from the centre of La Grave, friends I know stay up in Les Terrasses, and then there's also Villar d'Arene....

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@Arno: Ok thanks. I hope that it isn't an exceptional season this year as well then Smile

@Weathercam: I saw that there is a navette from La Grave to Chazelet if you have a ski pass so maybe if I have a randonnee pass I can use that?

It's a fair point about experience and going solo. This was my thinking with working up from the bottom of La Grave, to stay safe and make sure I knew where I was heading. I have some experience in the mountains gained through the CAF but not a great deal. My focus is definitely on staying safe. I saw that there are some guided tours up on that side as well (https://www.guidelagrave.com/) though I haven't contacted anyone yet.

I also already have accommodation booked through airbnb that was quite reasonable (and still with free cancellation if it comes to it); but thanks for the advice.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Are you going to do any lift served skiing in la Grave? If your focus is ski touring there are lots of far better places to be.

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@davidof It doesn't seem like it unless I get the randonnee ski pass at Chazelet

Can you suggest alternatives? Bear in mind I don't have any transport.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hi, a great idea to ask really. But perhaps if you have to ask the question then you know the answer?

la Grave is a charming place. I have stayed at the Edelweiss three times. Twice to go climbing in February- in the early and mid 1990's and then for a long weekend skiing about 20 years ago.

The whole village has an incredible atmosphere and you bump into the most amazing skiers and climbers from around the globe. When I went skiing I found the whole experience humbling, exhausting and nerve wracking. Actually I was in a state before I even put my boots on in the hotel. I'd been chatting to another in our group over a coffee, the explanation as to the demeanour of the German group was that the previous day one of their number had fallen to hid death, a dad of 40 or so with two kids. I think my wife was pregnant with our second son at the time.

The skiing is hard everywhere, even the easy bits are hard- like the track that cuts back above the cliffs to get to P1. Anywhere else this would be the easy groomed return- like where it goes round the corner to get to Lognan in Argentiere. In la Grave- oh no. Ruts, roots, branches at eye height, rocks and random drops. The hill itself is vast. Apart from immediately starting from the lift and then in the cut back and down from P1 we barely saw anyone, even when we could see for what seemed like miles. Apart from the mental stuff every run is long. It is the biggest vertical in the world. Whilst it can be 'red' that would be taking a very tube like approach, not seeing the bigger picture. I was also not fit enough, had new boots, skis and bindings that had not had the toe height adjusted correctly. It was an experience!

It is a wonderful place to go. If you are fit enough, can ski precisely in (just about) any snow, know how to ski off piste in a group, have mental strength and are sure that your bindings toe height has been correctly adjusted.

I think it is possibly the worst place in the world to learn to ski tour by yourself though!

What about a UCPA course?

A snowHead

Balancing @ed123, @JackSkier and others’ responses - a few more weeks touring in resort seems in order

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

A friend of mine did show up in La Grave at the start of last season having barely skied before. By April, he was skiing better than 90% of tourists, and had skied lines like La Rama and the Trifides.

He is likely an exception though. He's in his mid twenties, his main hobby is chucking himself off 30 metre waterfalls on his kayak, he has a very patient expert girlfriend, and showed up with 185 cm Volkl Katanas because he wanted to 'grow into them'.

If you have a similar profile and a very high risk tolerance, then you'll progress quickly, at least.

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^^^ or die quickly Laughing

The other cool thing about Chazelet is that it gives an excellent view of how much trouble you can get into at La Grave if you take a wrong turn

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I really don't understand this thread. The main reason for choosing La Grave seems to be cost of accomodation and there doesn't seem to be any budget for lift passes to progress quicker at the downhill skiing. Surely there are smaller ski hills than ADH around the French Alps where accomodation is reasonable and the touring not as high consequence as La Grave. It's almost pin in a map to find an alternative.

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@Arno, and not forgetting one of the best restaurant settings in the Alps!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@Weathercam, don’t know that one must rectify

After all it is free

@clarky999, yep Very Happy

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Lots of ski touring of all levels around Villar d'Arene, La Grave and down towards Monetier and Serre Chevalier. Staying somewhere along the valley gives would give you lots of scope and puts you in distance of many starting points for good tours. One of the nice things is also the popularity of places for ski touring in that area, off Lauteret for example, even solo touring you are unlikely to be out there on your own. The valley road is reasonably busy so without transport you should be able to hitch if needed. Good to have the option of getting to a resort area as well like Serre Chevalier which would be the closest and let you get some uplift - a few resort days either to access off piste or ski on piste can be good depending on weather, motivation etc.

Ski touring on your own has it's risks, many things do but choosing manageable objectives and being prepared, watching weather, checking conditions, gear etc. make it perfectly reasonable and you'll see many folk in that area out and about for a 'stroll' in the snowy hills on their own.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

You’d surely be better off joining a ski touring group rather than staying on your own?

So much more fun (and safer) to be with others.

If you go to a group in a larger resort you’ve got more options of what to hit. La Grave can get tracked out quickly and then conditions can be sketch if there isn’t new snow.

Or if cost is an issue, as Dave of the Marmotrs says going and staying in a smaller, lesser known ski area would be better idea to practice down hill and touring at a lower price point.

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I don't get any clear idea of the standard of your off-piste skiing. As I'm sure you know, this is an entirely off piste resort, most of it steep. However I must admit that the two main ways down aren't particularly steep and get tracked out quite quickly - but if you only skied those you might get tired of them after a while. I have skied many decades off piste and love the place, but I wouldn't ski there without a guide. There are too many dangers: One day early on I was skiing on my own I only just avoided skiing off a cliff and had quite a difficult hike to get out in deep snow.

Surely OP would be better off in a small, affordable resort with good touring and lift-accessed touring potential? Somewhere like Sainte Foy or Areches Beaufort. Either that or in an Alpine town like Bourg Saint Maurice, but if he really has no transport, in-resort is going to be best.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

As has been pointed out, the trails to get back to the lifts are narrow, quickly rutted even after fresh snow, or icy and from memory are at least a kilometre in length.

They are not pistes and there is hardly any signage. They are possibly summer walking paths.

Skinning up them would be nothing like skinning up the side of a piste in most other resorts.

A snowHead

Just to update.

I have taken the advice on board. I'm booked onto an introduction to ski touring course in Scotland in Feb before I come over which will at least give me some more experience.

I've cancelled the accommodation at la grave and will either stay at ADH longer or if people can suggest (as one person has) some smaller cheaper resorts that would be more accessible without transport.

Whilst at ADH im going to get touring and off piste lessons and talk to the instructors to get an idea of my level and how to progress.

A snowHead

Areches Beaufort, as suggested above, is certainly good for touring - I've only done downhill skiing there and our skis were the only downhill versions outside the restaurant. BUT....I would imagine it is a very French venue, and could be lonely if you don't speak decent French. There is also some very dangerous terrain up there.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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thanks for the suggestions,

can anyone comment which would be better: Sainte Foy or Areches Beaufort or is it much of a muchness. Both are accessible from Grenoble so.

My french isn't fluent but I lived in Grenoble for 6 years (I know I should have done this then) until last year so I have no problem with being in a French venue, maybe it would be better for me to improve my french as well.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@haffanidea, who you doing the Scottish course with? Blair by any chance?

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@Mother_hucker it's with the Scottish National Centre for something or other, Glenmore Lodge. Not sure about instructors.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@haffanidea, how did it go?

After all it is free

Crazy thread...
Though I do know (of) a Danish girl who learned to ski in a season at La Grave.
Arrived in December unable to ski.

By end of winter she was doing road runs - which is an incredible "sink or swim" achievement.
Admittedly she had network of friends to guide her in right direction.

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@haffanidea, so you did the ski touring course in Scotland?

And you did lessons in ADH?

Did you ski last season? What's the plan for this season?

Help!!

La Grave newbie

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