 Poster: A snowHead
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I think the norm is 4WD with all season tires
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Eh? Norm where?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
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I think the norm is 4WD with all season tires
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Eh? Norm where? |
US, going by the spelling…?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Raceplate, yes. Seems about £2500 for 90 days from Paris. Good value really. I just remember cross-border rentals as being problematic, but that was a while ago and it could well have changed.
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@YellowAndBlue, Plus fuel, tolls/ vignettes, and parking. They'd get a lot of trains. taxis and free ski buses for that.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| YellowAndBlue wrote: |
I'd agree with you about hiring a car in Geneva and being able to drive between France and Switzerland fairly easily, but the OP is looking to take the car to northern Italy and then southern Italy as well (as I understand it). Would that be so easy? I genuinely don't know, but it always has seems to me that cross-border travel with hire cars presents problems. Maybe I've become over-cautious when hiring cars abroad, but I think I'd double-check if I was planning to take a car from Geneva to southern Italy. |
I think you're overly fretting about this. Using one of the decent large hire companies like Europecar, it's honestly not an issue. When you book the hire, you tick a box to say you will be crossing the border, and that gives them something they can charge you extra for, but that's it. There are normally boundaries to the insured area, but as this usually covers at least EU/CH in Europe, that will be fine for the OP. Driving to southern Italy is no different to driving to northern Italy, beyond keeping an eye on any milage limits.
Cross-border rental is normally one of the search parameters on comparison sites too, so it is easy to filter out anyone who won't allow it. Hire car desks in border areas like Geneva will be used to dealing with these queries.
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| Quote: |
Using one of the decent large hire companies like Europecar, it's honestly not an issue.
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This.
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Hire cars often come with a maximum mileage allowed per hire, otherwise excessive add-on charges are applicable. Worth checking.
The cross border charge is not worth ducking, it can nullify insurance if not told at time of hire and anything happens across border. I seem to recall 50€ from Germany into Austria last time I hired a car from MUC.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting anything as daft as "ducking" a cross border charge. The modest charge I paid for 4 days (and would have been the same for 14 I think) was more reasonable than the other add-ons! It's been many a long year since I rented a car which didn't have unlimited mileage.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| Think you're over egging this. Since the suggestion is to take a train to Geneva and rent there, I can confirm that I've rented loads of cars over the years from Geneva airport Swiss side through AutoEurope and never had any issue with going cross border to France. It's just a box on the booking form that you tick and name the country you're going to. No hassle, no surcharge, no issue. I've used Budget, Hertz, Avis, Europcar, Enterprise, Sixt - none of them could care less about going cross border as long as it's on the booking form. I've even got free upgrades by being nice and telling them I'm going to the French Alps (props to Hertz for this). |
That's all I was suggesting. Haven't rented in GVA since we moved there but bro-in-law had a rental from Milan that specifically was limited to Italy only without a fee. Which somewhat irritated when he contemplated visiting us in France. Just something to bear in mind.
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Really appreciate all the responses - some further info;
Aussies can lease French cars for long periods (on paper it is a purchase and sale back) that includes all insurances on a new car. Upside is cost. Downside is no winter tyres and French red TT number plates that are a magnet to crims (prior experience on 2 occasions).
Sallanches is central and nice lower cost accomodation outside the town. Plan to try 4 different resort areas (Grand Massif, Porte du Soleil, Megeve, Chamonix / Les Houche) in 4 weeks and drive up (tell me if it is a stupid idea please).
Same in Laion / Lajen near Ortisei in the Dolomites.
Then 4 weeks in Sicily Puglia - yes, too cold to swim but Aussies don't need beach holidays 
My previous experience with chains always bad, sounds like they would be needed to drive to resorts if no AWD / Winter tyres.
Checked the European.fr and hugely expensive
OK so revised thinking is lease car from Geneva with winter tyres OR if cannot get on lease, buy them in Sallanches and carry the factory fitted tyres in car (as lease has to be returned with these). A one way rental CDG to Geneva looks not too expensive as Paris is cheapest European destination from Aussie to fly in.
Please tell me if you think these are stupid ideas - I can take the criticism as I'm an insensitive Aussie!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Vegemite skiier, check if you change the tyres it doesn't affect insurance? A full set of winter tyres is going to cost you 600-700€.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Markymark29 - thanks for the response - I actually got this suggestion on a car lease website but will ask further.
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@Vegemite skiier,
Apologies if I’ve missed it but will you be flying home from Paris or would you need to drop the car somewhere in S Italy?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Vegemite skiier wrote: |
| I can take the criticism as I'm an insensitive Aussie! |
French resort roads are kept very clear. Most of the time you can drive up without either chains or winter tires but one or the other is now a legal requirement in Sallanches during the winter months.
Most locals (who live in the valley) have 2wd cars with summer tires and will fit chains if driving to resort if the snow needs them. Smaller cars are generally better in snow if you can fit your kit in them.
Winter tires are good but there are times you may need to use chains or not proceed any further.
I wouldn't use public transport if you are in Sallanches and starting in Paris.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
| It's been many a long year since I rented a car which didn't have unlimited mileage. |
it is common in France to restrict mileage... well they call them kilometers on account of the metric system. Frequently 100 or 200km per day is allowed. For a months trip that may be fine incl. the Paris part as they would not be driving much each day to resort.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'd be wary about the insurance implications of changing tyres on a rental car, too. But you could get a perfectly good set for £400 and in your overall scheme of things that's not a huge cost - quite cheap for "peace of mind per day" and perhaps less than the additional cost of flying to Geneva and leasing a car in Switzerland.
Driving from Sallanches up to all those resorts makes perfectly good sense (you could go a few miles beyond Megeve to Praz sur Arly and try the Espace Diamant, too). You won't necessarily need chains ON the car to drive up to those destinations, but you will need them IN the car. If a car with normal tyres, from Paris, otherwise makes great sense, I'd go with that but buy snow socks as well as chains. Socks are easier to use. But I'd also get someone who knows how to do it to show you the secrets of successful use of chains. It's not rocket science. I'm an old lady with arthritic hands and I've done it lots of times. Yes, it is a pain, but it's also always exciting as it means there's lots of SNOW..... On snowy days the majority of cars in our French resort would be driving round with chains on - it can't be that difficult.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@davidof, Agreed, last time I rented from MUC I recall I had just enough within the allowance on a 10 day hire to get there and back from Arlberg plus 100km "spare" to allow for an odd trip to another resort on the same pass. You can get unlimited km allowance but you pay a hefty premium. This became common place about 7-8 years ago.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Red Leon wrote: |
@Vegemite skiier,
Apologies if I’ve missed it but will you be flying home from Paris or would you need to drop the car somewhere in S Italy? |
Flying from Paris
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| Vegemite skiier wrote: |
Sallanches is central and nice lower cost accomodation outside the town. Plan to try 4 different resort areas (Grand Massif, Porte du Soleil, Megeve, Chamonix / Les Houche) in 4 weeks and drive up (tell me if it is a stupid idea please).
Same in Laion / Lajen near Ortisei in the Dolomites. |
I can understand why you'd see this as a good idea and cost wise it may well be cheaper. But I can't help thinking that you're missing out on one of the great benefits of European (particularly French) skiing compared to the southern hemishere which is being in a ski-in/ski-out resort where the slopes are a short walk or a free ski bus ride away. I can't talk specifically for the Sallanches areas but IMV French ski resorts really aren't set up for car-based skiing. Parking is limited and expensive and judging by the length of your stay it must cross one of the peak periods which will be much worse. Putting boots on every day in a cold car park is not my idea of fun and if you've got to drive home every day, you can't really experience any proper après either. Seems a shame to fly all that way and not get the full experience.
As a comparison, I once did a road trip through NZ staying in Christchurch, Methven and Wanaka. Wanaka was lovely but to this day, I regret not having gone a bit further and spending some time in Queenstown. I wonder if you might end up feeling you've missed out on the full experience by staying outside a resort rather than in one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As @davidof points out, most days you'd be doing only very short mileages, so the few long days would possibly be completely offset, even if you can't get an unlimited mileage deal.
When I go somewhere new I'd prefer to drive than fly between destinations, where that's practicable. Australia is perhaps bit of an exception - driving across the GAFA has limited appeal - but I enjoyed driving across N Island New Zealand from Auckland to Wellington (detouring to Ruapehu for a few hours as it would have been rude not to) and driving solo round the Republic of S Africa, Swaziland and Lesotho when I was young - you miss such a lot by flying. I did a road trip around a number of obscure places in the USA as a student too - it was terrific. Lots of great conversations with people in places I'd never heard of, and would never have the chance to visit again.
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@Raceplate, agree with you but total 8 weeks on-snow accomodation blows the budget. Won't ski everyday and my other passion is swimming which I can do in Sallanches. Hoping for some French flavour in Sallanches although comments don't fill me with too much hope.
@pam_w, normal for me is 6 hours driving each way for a weekend skiing so not daunted by long drives.
BTW, plenty of on-snow accomodation in Aussie and none in Kiwiland. Queenstown is NZ party central Raceplate so make it there next time.
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@Vegemite skiier, I know you seem to want a hire car, a suggestion - look into train travel and using buses and taxis. Europe is actually really well served by fast trains, easy to move around and also distances aren't actually that huge, there's a massive saving to be had based on your figures, you seem to be in for 2500€ car hire, 500€ minimum for a set if winters, 50€ for a set of chains, 500€ of fuel, 200€ tolls. I can think of better ways to spend that kind of € and really do think you can do it smarter than that (and at a better carbon footprint), also don't under-estimate car parking in resort at peak times, it can be a nightmare (and expensive) - you'll be travelling short distances in bad weather in and around Sallanches and messing putting boots on in super cold carparks is no fun. I'd seriously be looking at train to the area and using buses and taxis. give someone else the hassle. Maybe get a hire car when you want to head south to Italy, hire it locally in southern Italy and train it into to the region and back to Paris after you've buzzed around Italy, it'll be useful there but in the Alps all it will be is a PITA ime. I hardly ever use a hire car once in resort and gave up hiring them years ago. Spend money on good luggage systems and travel light is my advice, you won't miss a car in the Alps.
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you won't miss a car in the Alps
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Well, SHs being a good place for arguments, I'd suggest that you definitely WOULD miss a car, doing odd days skiing in that long list of resorts. People in many parts of the world, but notably North America, regularly drive to ski, as do hundreds of thousands of French people living in and around the Alps. You'd be an idiot to leave ski boots getting cold in the car overnight and I'm sure the OP is not an idiot.
As for Sallanches, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it - though like other places in the Arve Valley (and any other valley for that matter) it can be polluted in winter when there's a temperature inversion. The car park at the big commercial centre with supermarket etc has a glorious view of Mont Blanc. You will certainly get "French atmosphere" there, far more than you would in, say, Meribel or Val d'Isere. In fact you'd struggle to find anything BUT French atmosphere. Getting from Sallanches to any of the resorts you've listed other than Chamonix by public transport will be a hassle (and not free) and taxis will be expensive.
Yes, car parking can be difficult - but plenty of local advice available here on Snowheads. Praz sur Arly is particularly good from that point of view, with massive free car park at the "front de neige".
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm 100% with Pam on this. Except if he wanted a more French experience Clusez would be slightly better.... more chance of getting mugged or your car torched.
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@pam w, Who mentioned leaving boots in cars overnight? Also you may want to consider the distances people in North America travel between resorts, a completely different scenario I'd suggest to someone based in the French Alps.
If the OP wants to hire a car, that's their choice, my view however is that it's unnecessary, the fact that loads of locals choose to drive around is up to them, as is the fact that someone wants to stay in Sallanches, personally I'd base myself in Cham if I was going to be in the French Alps for 2 months but it's not my trip so all i've chosen to do is list out the alternative choice of how to spend 4k €'s. Thats all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Who mentioned leaving boots in cars overnight?
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You didn't, but I thought your reference to the difficulty of putting on boots in a super cold car park rather implied that the boots would be cold and therefore difficult to put on. If they're not cold, why would it be difficult? I would much prefer to put on my boots (warm, from sitting in the well of the front seat) in a car park within a few yards of a lift than before clomping round on and off busses for half an hour. This is a guy who drives 6 hours each way to ski for a weekend - somehow I think he'll cope with putting his boots on in a car park 20 minutes drive from "home".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I would certainly want a car to hop around from Sallanches ... sure there are buses but not always swift nor efficient ...
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Love the banter and different perspectives! Sorry @Markymark but a car looks best option here.
Can I ask is "Cham" referring to Chambery? Background for Sallanches is that we have already skiied Val, Tignes & Trois Vallees so trying something different. Hope this is next good pick?
I see Praz sur Arly as a better parking option - any other suggestions for better (versus worst) parking options in Porte du Soleil, Grand Massif or Chamonix / Les Houche?
Are there better / worse days in February to drive up? What time to arrive to guarantee hassle free parking (is this a naive dream?)
Just got a Renault lease quote of Euros 45 per day including winter tyres - thoughts / comments?
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You know it makes sense.
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February will be busy, but most people will be staying in one of the resorts so probably won't drive to ski each day.
There are more free parking areas near the lifts in the places you are planning to visit on this trip than in the French resorts you have visited before.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Vegemite skiier,
Well done! I think you’re playing a blinder with your planning so far.
I’d describe your trip plan so far as ‘challenging but very rewarding’.
Similar structure to trips I’ve done in the past. Keeping costs under control, experiencing lots of different ski areas, sacrificing the easy option of staying in one place slopeside and strolling to/from the lifts each day.
From memory of your other threads on this trip, I think you’re skiing France most of Feb, then the Dolomites mostly in March. This, I’m afraid, is the one big flaw in an otherwise great plan. Visiting and skiing those 2 countries in the opposite order would have so many benefits IMO. If there’s any possibility of changing your accommodation bookings I definitely would.
Pretty sure ‘Cham’ means Chamonix. Chambery quite a bit further south and not relevant to this part of your trip.
My thoughts on some of your questions and advice given by snowHeads so far.
Train to Geneva then rental car from/back to there makes good sense. You get a rest after exploring big city. Although car rental costs have shot up, Geneva has a competitive market and you’ll be renting fairly low season.
I’d definitely rent with winter tyres fitted. Well worth extra for added safety, massively reduced chance of having to put snow gains on, though you still need to carry some.
Your lease quote of €45 per day incl winter tyres looks very good to me. Is that from//back to Paris? If so, worth sucking up the hassle of driving in the Paris area. At that price, ignore the train to Geneva advice I’d say. Just try to avoid peak traffic times when departing Paris. Minor point but convenient…try to get a ski rack on your car roof. Usually an optional extra. If leading for a longish period I’d ask if they could throw one in free, or at very low cost.
Evasion Mont Blanc and Portes du Soleil are great areas to explore. Stunning scenery, more of a French feel than the mega sized ski circuses, some interesting towns, with non-skiing attractions.
As others have pointed out, extremely busy and more expensive in Feb.
Hope that helps.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Vegemite skiier wrote: |
I see Praz sur Arly as a better parking option - any other suggestions for better (versus worst) parking options in Porte du Soleil, Grand Massif or Chamonix / Les Houche?
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You should be able to park at any of them apart from Chamonix town center. It will be busy in February as it is French winter holidays. From Sallanches (le Fayet) you can take the mountain railway up to le Tour, Grand Montets or les Houches if you wish. You may find parking in the satellite areas easier for the big, linked ski areas. Some snowheads should have tips for you.
You've got a whole host of ski areas to check out:
les Brasses, Praz sur Arly, Avoriaz, Flaine and all the Cham(onix) valley and the St Gervais/Megeve area. I would try and get some tips about what and where will be busy and how to access.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Visiting and skiing those 2 countries in the opposite order would have so many benefits IMO
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This is a very good point which the rest of us missed in our haste to tell you all about winter tyres!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
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Visiting and skiing those 2 countries in the opposite order would have so many benefits IMO
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This is a very good point which the rest of us missed in our haste to tell you all about winter tyres! |
Agreed. Skiing Italian Dolomites first in February and then France in March would be preferable from a snow/weather viewpoint if the accommodation bookings can be changed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Visiting and skiing those 2 countries in the opposite order would have so many benefits IMO
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This is a very good point which the rest of us missed in our haste to tell you all about winter tyres! |
Agreed. Skiing Italian Dolomites first in February and then France in March would be preferable from a snow/weather viewpoint if the accommodation bookings can be changed. |
and from a crowds viewpoint.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree that if you can, avoid the French Alps in February. At that time of year school holidays mean the car parks near the ski lifts fill up quickly, and there will be queues for the main lifts up in the morning. But obviously you can work round that by starting early, and by considering the public transport alternative on days when you can't (reasonable bus services from Sallanches to Combloux/Megeve/Praz-sur-Arly and St Gervais/Les Contamines; other places would need a change and probably be less practicable).
I have only visited Sallanches on quite focussed shopping missions so don't know what it would be like to stay in. It is a busy commercial town so I would imagine it has its supply of restaurants etc, and accommodation will be a lot cheaper than a tourist resort. It seems a good choice for access to multiple resorts.
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@davidof, yes, that too. 
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| Vegemite skiier wrote: |
Are there better / worse days in February to drive up? |
Saturdays are generally change over day so tend to be busier on the roads than other days nearer the resorts and I imagine at toll booths, depending on the time of day you pick to drive (first thing in the morning should be fine). Conversely they also tend to be the quietest days on the slopes as people are leaving or arriving that day
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Sundays are busy with local people having a day on the slopes - and it's a very good day to avoid the restaurants at lunchtime. Saturdays are quiet on the slopes, as noted, and although the roads are busy if you drive up early - in time for opening of lifts - and maybe have a drink after lifts close, then drive down to the valley again around 5 or 6 pm, you'll be driving against the main flow.
With all the ski options available to you, the simplest way to deal with passes is probably just to buy them by the day. Given the area you want to cover, you might not get the best out of any of the season options.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks all for the suggestions - have tried with booked accomodation and "no go" and cannot change now without significant $ penalty. So we will "brave the French school holiday hordes" and get up early. Really appreciate your collective advice and happy if it keep coming too - thanks!
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An early start should do it. A lot of people arrive around 9-9.30 in order to get their kids to ski school. Once on the mountain it won't seem crowded, except on the pistes lapped by beginners in ski school. (These resorts don't tend to be as bad as the Tarentaise, where there can be long lift queues at multiple points on the mountain).
The other crunch points will be mountain restaurants for lunch. Not too bad if you stop early (around midday), or alternatively take a snack with you to keep you going till the afternoon (there are outside picnic tables for good weather, and some indoor picnic spaces too; "salles hors sac"). Or you can phone a restaurant in advance to make a reservation.
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FAQ
