 Poster: A snowHead
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There is snow and so it is time to make sure the skis are ready to go. The problem is that there are rather a lot of them these days, which means the tune gradually gets poorer and hands increasingly look like they've been in a blender.
Current set up is a side edge angle guide 87 and a base edge file guide, and some files.
From other threads, I see that things like the Toko Edge Tuner Pro are not particularly well rated, because of accuracy, clogging etc. Is there anything else that snowHeads can recommend to make life a bit easier when hand-tuning, or are we getting into the realm of the €€€ Toko Evo or Razor-Tune power tools? Ideally, more comfortable grip and easy to keep pressure constant.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've had a lot of success with the Swix TA3008 edge tuner with rollers, much easier to use than a file guide/clamp/file and very consistent, the only downside is the files can be a little pricey, but worth it in my mind!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@KenX, Do you have to buy specific files for it? It's not obvious on the sales sites what the accessories are. Any issues with the dial moving or rollers clogging, as those are the kind of problems I've heard with similar tools? Otherwise, yeah, that's the right kind of thing/price.
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@Scarlet, The angle dial never moves by accident, I think I've maybe sprayed the rollers once in 10 or so years, files, not specific, but need to be the shorter 100mm or so which a lot of companies use
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@KenX, Gotcha. We have a couple of these – would they fit? The metal and pink stone are longer though, so I guess we'd need a shorter one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Scarlet, I use the Toko one with no problems as indicated by review. Mine is about 20 yes old and prior to roller base type now sold.
Tried other methods, guides etc. But find this easily better and no problem with accuracy either. Files I always clean with a brass wire brush (suede brush) going through the teeth grooves rather than across them, which is good metalwork practice to maintain a file. With a cleaned file it will clean/cut a side edge in a couple of strokes competently. Find that I can exert much more cut pressure with the Toko than plain file guide also.
Must admit I don't understand poor review of the Toko one, looks to me more user skill from my experience on a whole bunch of family skis over many years.
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@Scarlet, there's no benefit in that Toko tool over your existing guide. In fact the Toko is slower to use due to its screw-down clamp versus a spring clamp.
When did you last replace your metal file as they do blunt over time?
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And don't forget the sidewall planer!!!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| When did you last replace your metal file as they do blunt over time? |
Replaced? How long are they supposed to last? It's only done a few pairs a year since we bought it from you about 7 or 8 years ago. Is there an easy way to tell, other than it's harder to sharpen skis?
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| When did you last replace your metal file as they do blunt over time? |
Replaced? How long are they supposed to last? It's only done a few pairs a year since we bought it from you about 7 or 8 years ago. Is there an easy way to tell, other than it's harder to sharpen skis? |
A quality file will last waaay longer than that providing that an alu-oxide stone is always used first to remove the work hardened skiing burrs and rock dings etc - otherwise it'll dull a lot quicker.
In your OP you didn't actually say what difficulties you're having. The tune shouldn't get "gradually poorer" - well not unless tha base edge angles are pretty battered meaning that a crisp junction with the side edge angle is hard to achieve - in which case a base grind/base edge refresh is required.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, I took a pair of skis that I'd serviced out last season on a hardpack day. They were really squirrely and I could barely ski, but at the time blamed my (lack of) technique. I had checked the sharpness after the service, and they seemed fine, but clearly weren't. N offered to sharpen them for me, and they were massively better after, but it was hard work for him. He did them again yesterday, again hard work, and afterwards his hands were blistered and there was no way he could do one more pair, never mind the 4 or 5 standing in the queue. Keeping enough pressure to make any difference is brutal, and I don't have the strength, that's why I was looking at something easier to hold.
I smoothed out the base angles myself first – all seemed fine, not been skiing rocks so hardly a burr on them anyway.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| KenX wrote: |
| And don't forget the sidewall planer!!! |
I don't have one of these. Maybe that's has contributed to the blunting of the metal file?
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| @spyderjon, I took a pair of skis that I'd serviced out last season on a hardpack day. They were really squirrely and I could barely ski....... |
Sounds like the hanging burr hadn't been (fully) removed.
| Scarlet wrote: |
| @spyderjon.......He did them again yesterday, again hard work, and afterwards his hands were blistered and there was no way he could do one more pair, never mind the 4 or 5 standing in the queue. Keeping enough pressure to make any difference is brutal..... |
Something is not right then. Assuming that you're using the file the right way around (they only cut in one direction) then the most obvious cause of the problem would be the sidewall getting in the way of the file.
| Scarlet wrote: |
| KenX wrote: |
| And don't forget the sidewall planer!!! |
I don't have one of these. Maybe that's has contributed to the blunting of the metal file? |
Sidewall material won't damage the metal file at all but, depending upon its hardness, its presence will stop/block the file from cutting at all or the material will clog the teeth of the file and prevent it cutting.
You need to purchase a sidewall stripper 
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You know it makes sense.
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@spyderjon, you beat me to it LOL.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Alright then, we'll start with a new metal file and a sidewall stripper, and see if that improves matters. Maybe also a new pink stone, unless there's a good way of getting the muck off?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| Alright then, we'll start with a new metal file and a sidewall stripper, and see if that improves matters. Maybe also a new pink stone, unless there's a good way of getting the muck off? |
Just get a sidewall stripper as you'll be amazed at the difference it'll make. The alu-oxide's get filthy very quickly and can't easily be cleaned but they work just fine like that and only need replacing when they get excessively grooved etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Scarlet, why do you have a base edge file?
The advice is "Once the base edge angle has been set all future tuning should be to the side edge only." which for most DIYers means you just don't have a base edge file. If you need it set (rare afaik) go to a shop.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Layne, I have a base edge guide and a set of files. Because I don’t like my base edges to look like they’ve been chewed by a bear. Which they do sometimes. All other questions about this can be directed @spyderjon.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The Toko type has no problem planing the sidewall material at all.
Used with a "second cut b'stard" file blade (yes a valid technical descriptor) it can be used as a one pass file even if the sidewall impinges the steel edge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Scarlet, Looks like a good order due imminently for that well known East Midlands ski tech wizard! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Once you have sharpened the base edge more than a couple of times (maybe even once), surely you can't sharpen it again without a proper base grind. Best you would be able to do is remove burrs that are proud of the bottom? Or at least that appears to be the case with my skis. I can sharpen from the side but not the base as the file will not contact the metal anymore when using the base as a guide - simple physics surely.
I do about 8 sets in my family collection and go up to 4 weeks a year and skis are all good up to around 6 weeks of use per pair then they have to go to a shop to get a base grind to get them properly sharp again otherwise the grip on hard-pack starts to get sketchy.
Maybe because I never get blisters I'm doing it wrong !
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@beeryletcher, we're talking about sharpening the side edges.
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@Scarlet, I see that now, but sometimes it is hard to see what anybody is actually talking about in a thread, as replies often make things a bit cloudy.... especially with all the beer in me 
Still, I'd like to know if my service regime seems about right though. PS. I don't use any side wall stripper, as my edge file seems quite happy to deal with a bit of plastic, while doing the metal if need be.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hi guys, I'm not sure if its just me or my skis have been over sharpened for me.
The word "Sketchy" gets used in this thread, and I'm not sure if thats whats going on with mine.
The brand new rental skis at the snow centre just seemed so much smoother to use.
The place where you particulary notice it is at the top of the lift where you perform skided turn to exit the lift.
The rental skis which were brand new from the factory when I used them alowed me to glide around smoothly without a problem,
but my own skis were very reluctant to skid around on the flat at all and just wanted to grab.
I did get them detuned at the tip and tail in Canada back in January, as then they were very tricky and chattered on the traverse.
The detune seemed to help a lot, but I still found them so "grabby".
They were fine till their first service.
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I would take them up to @spyderjon, to have a look at, but its a bit of a trek up there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Basic check for concave base id start with. Any influence in that direction changes the ski very easily from it's desired characteristics into something quite belligerent.
Reference to steel straight edge (steel rule on edge) with bright light to shine through and illuminate any discrepancy as you move along the ski should at least offer a start point for analysis and assessment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ski3, Composite skis are bad for doing this especially the jr ones. Show them any heat and they go concave.
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@DrLawn, not much info to go on there. What ski's are they, what is the history? Do they only feel grabby after the latest service? Who did that service?
AFAIK detuning is no longer deemed necessary/useful.
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You know it makes sense.
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how oft do you guys really sharpen your skis? folks would be disgraced if they knew how little I did our skis. I asked an instructor who posts on here (lv4 basi) he's my type of dude hardly does them,
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Mother hucker, once or twice a season, depending on use – piste skis get done more often because they get a lot of use and benefit the most from sharpening. Bear in mind I generally only ski at the weekends.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mother hucker, it's one of those things. You get people saying they never do them just like some people say driving to the Alps on summer tyres is fine, etc.
If you don't notice your edges are blunt then don't sharpen them.
If you don't feel like the glide on your skis are a bit wanting then don't wax them.
I do ours after each weeks skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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<laughs> yeah, I sharpen them when I notice they need sharpening. It's like wax and everything else - if you don't notice, don't worry.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I set out with all good intentions. I'll wax and edge them before we go out in December, I take my tools to tickle up and re wax but end up thinking stuff it. The performance declines gradually, and I only really realise when I re sharpen and wax how better it is I'm going to wax the kids skis more though this season though. They're only light and need as much glide to keep up with the bigger kids as possible.
oh and I have winter tyres on every winter regardless of how many wax and edges I do
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