Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Resorts not opening due to price of power?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Food for thought after the ravages of Covid some/many small resorts may cease to be viable. I have also heard that the large resorts are considering closing for the long lunch hour ... like they did in the old days.



Google Trans...

https://france3--regions-francetvinfo-fr.translate.goog/auvergne-rhone-alpes/isere/nous-ne-serons-pas-en-capacite-d-ouvrir-la-station-le-cri-d-alarme-des-professionnels-de-la-montagne-face-a-la-hausse-des-prix-de-l-energie-2605104.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hmm. This response is so French: "Et par "solution", Frédéric Géromin n'entend pas la hausse du prix des forfaits. Il balaie cette option d'un revers de main : "Les Français subissent eux aussi l'inflation, leur porte-monnaie n'est pas extensible"."
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
it is certainly worrying, i wonder if any resorts that choose to close for a certain time during the day (if need be) state this before the start of the season so as any traveller knows this before purchasing lift passes/finalising resort choices?

but can you also imagine the pandemonium in resort based restaurants when everyone rocks up for lunch at the same time.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
It's not viable. Imagine in bad weather. They will have to make an exemption for at least some of the measures. In Switzerland last week this was the expectation in the local paper from the Alpine business community. Even if it means citizens enduring brownouts and blackouts.

And it probably isn't viable for many mountain hotels and apartment blocks to lose power for any length of time: they're designed to be heated continuously and although they're usually very well-insulated, will have pipework and water tanks that need to be kept at a reasonable temperature. Yes, people can turn down their room thermostats from a Hawaiian 23°C to an English 18°C but even then, there's often an expectation in the design of a minimum temperature to support the fabric and services of the building.

If it's -8°C up in the mountain resorts and +6°C down in the valley, I suspect that it will be valley residents who get the short straw as far as energy cuts go. Simply because it's more reasonable and viable to impose them where the impact is less.


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 4-09-22 11:11; edited 2 times in total
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
also, it could be counter productive where people who will need to stop for an hour or two whilst the lifts stop, head back to their accommodation, especially self catering, and whack on the power and heating!!!!
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@terrygasson, good point.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@LaForet, our apartments have “permanent” antigel at 12 degrees
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
The winter sports industry, but so much else in our lives, is so reliant on "affordable" sustainable energy prices that we cannot be very sure about anything. "Affordable" can mean many different things - financially sustainable, economically sustainable, environmentally sustainable..... we live in uncertain times. French decision-making can be different. When on street parking charges were introduced in Les Saisies, largely at the instigation of the restaurants whose clients would arrive to find no parking spaces, the decision was to make the two hours between 12 and 2 free.

The maximum pre-paid ticket, from the machine, was for 2 hours, so the obvious answer for the all-day punter was to buy a two hour ticket near the "front de neige" at 10.01 and get four hours for the price of 2, just popping back to buy another ticket till 4. Thus parking all day and defeating the object of keeping spaces free for short-term visitors - for example those wanting to park near their chosen restaurant.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
pam w wrote:
Hmm. This response is so French: "Et par "solution", Frédéric Géromin n'entend pas la hausse du prix des forfaits. Il balaie cette option d'un revers de main : "Les Français subissent eux aussi l'inflation, leur porte-monnaie n'est pas extensible"."


l'Alpe d'Huez has hiked day passes by 10%.

Talk of 9h30 to 16h30 opening, well not much is open after 16h30 anyway but I guess that means outlying lifts shutting at 16h. More lifts to remain closed outside holiday periods. Speeds reduced on lifts when demand is low. Could make for slow skiing. Resorts being asked to save 10% of their energy usage by the end of the winter. No night skiing.

Speed limits may be reduced back to 80 kph on RN and 110kph on autoroutes but govt. is floating this around to see if it will cause a Yellow Jackets type revolution.

A few smaller resorts may not open due to staff shortages or energy costs, maybe.

Not much of a change really.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
More from the French press:

There will be no power cuts in the ski resorts" this winter promised the government

https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/economie-social/il-n-y-aura-pas-de-coupures-electriques-dans-les-stations-de-ski-cet-hiver-nous-a-promis-le-1662536988
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Well the Tories have been slammed for saying there will be no power cuts in the UK this winter so I guess the same applies to France. The electricity system is straining at the moment across Europe and the UK at the moment, the weather will have a big part to play this winter on how resilient we are. If we have a lot of foggy and windless days I can see something is going to have to give.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

ut can you also imagine the pandemonium in resort based restaurants when everyone rocks up for lunch at the same time.

Pretty much happens now! Midday, everyone stops for lunch. Laughing
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
La Plagne to run Lifts slightly slower to save electricity costs

Quote:
Faced with the increase in the price of the megawatt hour, ski resorts are also experiencing rising electricity prices. La Plagne, in Savoie, is already planning radical measures to save 10 to 20% of its consumption this winter.

While some ski resorts are wondering if they will be able to open this winter, others are beginning to imagine solutions to save electricity. This is the case of La Plagne, in Savoie.

Faced with the explosion in electricity prices, the station located at an altitude of 2,000 meters, decided to slow down its chairlifts. Very energy-intensive, they will drive this winter at 4 meters per second, instead of 5 usually. Imperceptible for holidaymakers, this measure will nevertheless allow great savings.
https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/auvergne-rhone-alpes/savoie/stations-de-ski-a-la-plagne-les-telesieges-vont-etre-ralentis-pour-economiser-de-l-electricite-2609440.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR125sG4oCLQEfyvDx9_Q801g1wWUty0lIL5w0qR1dMxSh-s4Rt6wliurvg#Echobox=1662643621
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My understanding is the main issue will be peak power demand.

So I could easily see lifts starting at 9:30-10 and shutting at 3-3:30pm as peak usage is normally morning and evening so this avoids lifts running through peak (n.b. have to remember lifts need to run for a bit before and after operational hours).

However it wouldn't surprise me if reduced hours could kill off small resorts; I imagine a good chunk are reliant on locals (not big enough to attract enough tourists for week long trips) with significant usage being people doing a run or two before/after work - if you can't do that why buy a season pass... (Work has a team in Oslo; They (used to) do a weekend trip, relying on night time skiing to make it worthwhile - bus it out 'after' work on a friday, ski 6 - 9pm (iirc), then saturday (inc night skiing) and most of sunday)


I would be more concerned about restrictions on snow making/piste maintenance (If they can't run snow making during peak energy usage in afternoon/evening they may not have the time to then bash before the next days skiing - not necessarily an issue for most snowheads who can probably cope with (if not actively enjoy) moguls, but still a problem)
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
As I’ve said on a parallel thread, isn’t most of the energy consumption preordained as soon as someone arrives in the resort, with the power needed for accommodation being the major slice of the energy pie? So that any restrictions on the lift infrastructure are just tinkering at the edges of the energy bill? Not saying this is so, just that we tend to assume the lift system is the main culprit when it may not be.

In our apartment block, the peak occupancy in, say, New Year week is 7-8 times that of a non school holiday week. If you consider the difference in energy consumption then it must be substantial and unlike the steady load from running the lifts, this peaks quickly in the early evening with baths/showers and dinner, and the heating demand will be ramping up then as well. So cutting a few percent off the daytime lift demand may be trivial in comparison to the load from accommodation in the late afternoon and early evening.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

cutting a few percent off the daytime lift demand may be trivial in comparison to the load from accommodation in the late afternoon and early evening.

I suspect that's right. One evening a phone call from a friend in the UK sent me up to solve a problem in two apartments, owned by different British friends. The top flat was leaking water into the lower one. It was an incredibly cold night and I wore a warm jacket over the warm clothes I was already wearing in my apartment. Both apartments were full of overweight British renters in vest tops, all pink and rosy from the heat. The places were incredibly hot, like saunas, aided by the wet ski stuff draped all over the heaters.

But peak demand is one thing - the affordability of the power, at any time of the day, is another matter. It's like in a famine. Famines don't usually mean there is no food about - it means some people can't afford it. There was always food available during the Irish famine, for example. Only the poor starved.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Personally, I'd imagine any restrictions put in place would not apply to peak ski dates (Xmas, New Year and February) when most money is made and numbers swell.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
On the other hand, given the demand inelasticity of peak ski dates, those would be the dates to shove up prices, particularly of ski lifts, to maximise income. Accommodation prices have always been twice as high in the February holidays as in the weeks before and after but lift prices (and restaurant prices) are the same.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
pam w wrote:
Quote:

cutting a few percent off the daytime lift demand may be trivial in comparison to the load from accommodation in the late afternoon and early evening.

I suspect that's right. One evening a phone call from a friend in the UK sent me up to solve a problem in two apartments, owned by different British friends. The top flat was leaking water into the lower one. It was an incredibly cold night and I wore a warm jacket over the warm clothes I was already wearing in my apartment. Both apartments were full of overweight British renters in vest tops, all pink and rosy from the heat. The places were incredibly hot, like saunas, aided by the wet ski stuff draped all over the heaters.

But peak demand is one thing - the affordability of the power, at any time of the day, is another matter. It's like in a famine. Famines don't usually mean there is no food about - it means some people can't afford it. There was always food available during the Irish famine, for example. Only the poor starved.


Might just fix that for you Very Happy

There was always food available for the British during the Irish famine, for example. Only the poor / Irish starved
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
LaForet wrote:
As I’ve said on a parallel thread, isn’t most of the energy consumption preordained as soon as someone arrives in the resort, with the power needed for accommodation being the major slice of the energy pie? So that any restrictions on the lift infrastructure are just tinkering at the edges of the energy bill? Not saying this is so, just that we tend to assume the lift system is the main culprit when it may not be.

In our apartment block, the peak occupancy in, say, New Year week is 7-8 times that of a non school holiday week. If you consider the difference in energy consumption then it must be substantial and unlike the steady load from running the lifts, this peaks quickly in the early evening with baths/showers and dinner, and the heating demand will be ramping up then as well. So cutting a few percent off the daytime lift demand may be trivial in comparison to the load from accommodation in the late afternoon and early evening.


But if a government declared that all companies had to reduce electricity consumption by (say) 15%, the reduction by hotels, shops, restaurants, appatment operators etc would not count towards the lift company's reduction. Snowmaking and lift running would have to be reduced.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@Kenzie, but I don’t <think> there's any expectation that companies reduce turnover if e.g. they are an leccy powered metal turning business?
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
adriangrogan wrote:

There was always food available for the British during the Irish famine, for example. Only the poor / Irish starved


That's why it's called the Irish famine, like in Ireland, hence Irish starving.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
under a new name wrote:
@Kenzie, but I don’t <think> there's any expectation that companies reduce turnover if e.g. they are an leccy powered metal turning business?

Who knows if or not companies will be asked to reduce electric consumption. I was using it as an example of how a resort could reduce consumption, but the lift company would still have to reduce consumption.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Kenzie, there has apparently already been a a request to reduce consumption across the board, in particular in the early evening.

My point was simply that it's of minimal cost to e.g. a retailer to switch off all its lights overnight*, (although lighting relatively not so important) whereas if electricity is a primary input to your process it may well be a rather less fair burden to switch off.

* which should be happening anyway. Every little helps.

It would be helpful to understand just how much electricity a modern, efficient 6 person chair uses (as an example)? I don't know that answer.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
So I've been doing a little looking around.

As an example, https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tcd10-flegere-les-praz-doppelmayr-7148.html, the newish (and definitely current tech) 10 seat cabines up Flégère run at a max 945 kW. So 08:30-17:00 call - probs about 9-10 hours a day on a "normal" day.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
So I've been doing a little looking around.

As an example, https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tcd10-flegere-les-praz-doppelmayr-7148.html, the newish (and definitely current tech) 10 seat cabines up Flégère run at a max 945 kW. So 08:30-17:00 call - probs about 9-10 hours a day on a "normal" day.


So one lift = 10 mW hours / day?
snow conditions
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Red Leon wrote:
under a new name wrote:
So I've been doing a little looking around.

As an example, https://www.remontees-mecaniques.net/bdd/reportage-tcd10-flegere-les-praz-doppelmayr-7148.html, the newish (and definitely current tech) 10 seat cabines up Flégère run at a max 945 kW. So 08:30-17:00 call - probs about 9-10 hours a day on a "normal" day.


So one lift = 10 mW hours / day?


Being pedantic it would be one lift= 10 MWhours (or just under). A thousand kW is a Megawatt, the mega prefix is a capital M. A small m prefix stands for milli i.e a mW is a thousandth of a Watt). Madeye-Smiley
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but just reporting the facts as reported here:
https://www.skipedia.co.uk/2022/09/dont-panic-energy-crisis-will-not-stop-your-skiing-this-winter/

In relation to lifts running more slowly, most people seem to be unaware that this has been the policy in many resorts for several years. Discussing with the director of Serre Chevalier earlier this week, his research shows that changing from 5m/s to 4m/s would add an average of 10 minutes to their uplift time for the whole day...
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
A few of the gondolas on the Sella Ronda have massive solar panel arrays on the roof, which is a mighty fine idea and will make a big difference. Don't know if this is common elsewhere though.
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Alpe d’Huez confirmed that they will not close during the season.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CihIPV1oKp6/?igshid=NmNmNjAwNzg=
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Woule be interesting to consider what is the % demand of energy in a governor resort between infrastructure, accomodations, and businesses/ shops/restaurants

In case of accommodation and businesses, presuming reducing temperature to 19C would go long way towards saving 15%?

In case of infrastructure, I assume most resorts would be able to figure out 15% through combination of slower lifts, earlier closing, and keeping certain redundant or lesser used lifts completely closed
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Are we sure 15% reduction will be enough though?
snow conditions
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Power requirements must have increased enormously over the last 30 years as lifts have been upgraded from frugal drag lifts to powerful detachable lifts together with virtually universal snow making and piste grooming. Space heating may be more efficient these days however and presumably a lot of the old demand for industrial power in the Alps will have been displaced to china ?
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

That's why it's called the Irish famine, like in Ireland, hence Irish starving.

There were plenty of better off Irish people who didn't starve - and potato crop failures elsewhere, including Scotland and the Netherlands, but the punitive poor law of the time, which threw the destitute on the "parish" couldn't cope with the huge numbers of poor Irish families dependent on potatoes. The attitude of the government in London, of course, was generally callous and uncaring, as it generally was towards destitute English people too. And equally, other parts of English society (e.g. the Quakers) reacted generously to help in Ireland.

One dilemma of famine relief efforts is how to avoid destroying local agricultural markets by bringing in "free food" (often, historically, "dumped" USA agricultural surpluses). Massive interference in energy markets will, of course, create a load of new dilemmas, as we will all become increasingly aware.
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

The attitude of the government in London, of course, was generally callous and uncaring


Aaaahh, the good old days.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
iainm wrote:
Of course, I could be completely wrong, but just reporting the facts as reported here:
https://www.skipedia.co.uk/2022/09/dont-panic-energy-crisis-will-not-stop-your-skiing-this-winter/

In relation to lifts running more slowly, most people seem to be unaware that this has been the policy in many resorts for several years. Discussing with the director of Serre Chevalier earlier this week, his research shows that changing from 5m/s to 4m/s would add an average of 10 minutes to their uplift time for the whole day...

Have they changed the maximum skiier per hour uplift numbers for those lifts they've slowed down?
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w wrote:
Quote:

That's why it's called the Irish famine, like in Ireland, hence Irish starving.

There were plenty of better off Irish people who didn't starve - and potato crop failures elsewhere, including Scotland and the Netherlands,


Well the English reaped as they sowed by creating a whole load of American Irish malcontents as well as losing Ireland within 70 years.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Kenzie, how do you mean "changed" them? I mean, obvs the capacity will have changed ... ?
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Trois Vallees (www.s3v.com) advertising lift pass prices but saying they are indicative and may change according to the 'evolution of energy costs'. Not sure if that means they won't accept a purchase order yet, or just that they may change over the season.
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy