 Poster: A snowHead
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Are there any Whistler experts out there? We are thinking of a trip out to Whistler this winter and would like to avoid peak holiday / weekend dates (not big fans of the queues). We've been over public holiday weekends before and would prefer to avoid the busiest dates when we visit next. If we skied the Monday to Friday on the lead up to Christmas (19th to 23rd Dec) does anyone know if that's likely to be - weekend / public holiday busy; a little busier than a normal mid-week; or just about a normal week?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would guess it'll be busy busy as that is effectively holiday week for many, getting busier as the week progresses. Also unlikely to be worth the flight for 5 days skiing when snow may not be stellar unless you have other complementary plans.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's likely to be busy.
Last year (pretty much your dates) was particularly hectic as the roads to everywhere else were closed, and at least some parts of the Vail Resorts empire didn't have a right lot of snow. So I would expect line ups, but they're efficient and polite, and you can avoid nearly all of them if that's a priority for you. Most people start/ end/ take a break at the same predictable times and in specific parts of the mountain, and they don't ride early or late.
Sunday December 19 2021. No line ups here, but it was 06:30 for an 08:15 first lift. We got 1st chair, these guys were amateurs.
Monday December 20 2021. Packed out all day on every slope. Not. People all go to the same places, so avoiding them is very easy, but you may need to use the grey cells a little.
The Duffy Lake Road was accessible again by the 22nd, so I escaped to Big White, which was commensurately quiet...
Friday December 24 2021 08:45 lift opening. That's the entire line up. We didn't need first chair as I was riding with the guy who opens the upper pistes;-) Even then, we ripped fresh tracks down the middle of some of the longer good pistes multiple times before it was done. Note that at this time of year the off piste snow depth was marginal (deep, but not deep enough to cover all the buried branches), not that we needed to go there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I would guess it'll be busy busy as that is effectively holiday week for many, getting busier as the week progresses. Also unlikely to be worth the flight for 5 days skiing when snow may not be stellar unless you have other complementary plans. |
Yes, would be a long way for 5 days but it's part of a bigger trip
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| philwig wrote: |
It's likely to be busy.
Last year (pretty much your dates) was particularly hectic as the roads to everywhere else were closed, and at least some parts of the Vail Resorts empire didn't have a right lot of snow. So I would expect line ups, but they're efficient and polite, and you can avoid nearly all of them if that's a priority for you. Most people start/ end/ take a break at the same predictable times and in specific parts of the mountain, and they don't ride early or late.
Sunday December 19 2021. No line ups here, but it was 06:30 for an 08:15 first lift. We got 1st chair, these guys were amateurs.
Monday December 20 2021. Packed out all day on every slope. Not. People all go to the same places, so avoiding them is very easy, but you may need to use the grey cells a little.
The Duffy Lake Road was accessible again by the 22nd, so I escaped to Big White, which was commensurately quiet...
Friday December 24 2021 08:45 lift opening. That's the entire line up. We didn't need first chair as I was riding with the guy who opens the upper pistes;-) Even then, we ripped fresh tracks down the middle of some of the longer good pistes multiple times before it was done. Note that at this time of year the off piste snow depth was marginal (deep, but not deep enough to cover all the buried branches), not that we needed to go there.
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Thanks, if only I could get the (now post teenage) kids out for first lifts  You have given me a bit of food for thought though - we could potentially do more of a road trip and cover maybe 2 other BC resorts, and save for a longer Whistler stay til a bit more into the main season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@gbium,
Was fairly quiet in Whistler up to Christmas (we were there until 23rd or 24th I think) - this is fairly normal, before Christmas is not really a holiday week here or in the US, it is 26th onwards when it gets very busy, but this year was very cold so kept the crowds away a bit.
You should note that the Duffy Lake Road (a small road that many dont drive in winter, and significant detour), was the _only_ road open to the interior which may have significantly affected numbers in Big White as its heavily marketed to the lower mainland. That said, no idea what normal crowds there are like over the Christmas holidays, but have been there over a another holiday and it wasnt particularly busy.
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@gbium,
Snow wise, the pre Christmas week could go either way.
The last few years have been good, but though I dont recall any year with no skiing at Christmas, some years things haven't really got going. I used to think it was a bonus if I was skiing off piste before Christmas (usually very easy to find good untracked pow that week if there was good snow), then I think 2019 was mostly core shots from skiing on piste at Blackcomb! 2020 no idea due to covid restrictions, but snow was good on the local hills. 2021very good.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I would guess it'll be busy busy as that is effectively holiday week for many, getting busier as the week progresses. |
???
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not hard to understand is it? Lots of people take vacation in days leading up to Xmas, kids are off school etc etc particularly if they are trying to dodge the really busy week following.
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Without deliberate misunderstanding of obvious stuff the internet point scoring game would be much harder to play.
Here's another shot from December 19 2021.
Last year was a bit different from usual, but Whistler was busy in that pre-xmas week last year, and even busier around New Year 21/22, which wasn't the OP's question. So: more busy than a normal week, in my direct experience of both over a few decades. It's possible you could google down actual numbers, which would be fun.
If solitude is your thing, either drive somewhere small, or fly into Kamloops or Kelowna and bag the local hills, which will certainly be quieter.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@philwig - quite like the idea of doing a bit of an interior tour - but probably need more days available that we'll have this time.
I think generally the view is - a bit busier than a normal week but not quite as busy as it will be the week after  - sound great not really after total solitude - we've just hit a few public holidays in the past (Canada and US resorts) and they tested my crowd tolerance a little.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Not hard to understand is it? Lots of people take vacation in days leading up to Xmas, kids are off school etc etc particularly if they are trying to dodge the really busy week following. |
That maybe your "understanding". But it isn't at all related to the real world!
You then went ahead and presented your "(mis)understanding" as fact.
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Would be very wary of booking for Whistler, or any Vail resort for that matter.
We were booked for a week in January '22, including lift passes. As Covid was back on the rise in Europe it appeared that the Canadian border would either close or introduce a quarantine on arrival. With that in mind we rang up and were assured there would be no issues in refunds on the ski passes as it was due to Covid restrictions. British Airways were happy to transfer all monies paid on flights and hotels onto our next holiday, but the ski pass was another matter. After applying for a refund, we were bumped around from one department to another and then onto their external claims specialists, some 3rd party outfit based in the Far East who never responded apart from towards the end of the season to deny the refund leaving us £600+ out of pocket. Subsequent appeals went unanswered, an email to the CEO of Vail generated a small glimmer of hope but again we were fobbed off for 3 months before being denied once more.
With the current travel issues at the world's airports, last minute flight cancellations etc, I would be very wary of booking a ski pass with Vail as if anything goes wrong you will not see a penny back.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you read WB's contractual stuff particularly section D,
| wb wrote: |
If no lifts are operating at a resort for an entire day or Vail Resorts cancels your lift ticket due to COVID-19,
you are eligible for a full refund for the affected day(s) on your lift ticket." |
That's pretty clear.
I don't use it myself as I understand the risks, but maybe travel insurance would help? I would read the small print though,
because if you just change your mind, it may be hard to get cover for that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
we rang up and were assured there would be no issues in refunds on the ski passes as it was due to Covid restrictions.
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That’s Vail!
Telling you there’s “no issue getting a refund on the ski passes”, then denying the refund. Far too many stories just like that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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The concern about crowds.....there won't be a ton of people. But that early, the open terrain could easily be limited, which would concentrate those there. That is also the time that all the new, minimum wage, insufficient-in-number employees learn their jobs with you as their helper. Not a reason by itself to stay away, but it can be kind of a cluster-fk.
It is coverage, not crowds, that you might need to concern yourself with. I said "early" because making big bets (and you're making one) on acceptable early season conditions anywhere in the Pacific NW requires more and more guts. In the 60's we'd wonder how early in November we'd start skiing. Now its mid December. I keep a journal, and my before-the-new-year skiing has just about ended, mostly due to conditions.
FWIW, the seasons are ending later, so it isn't all doom and gloom.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| FWIW, the seasons are ending later, so it isn't all doom and gloom. |
My observation is ski season has been getting later and later. So the traditional “early season” dates/places are getting more and more iffy.
WB is considered a good “early season candidate” in the overall N American ski scene. There aren’t a lot of other good alternatives competition.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| abc wrote: |
| WB is considered a good “early season candidate” in the overall N American ski scene. There aren’t a lot of other good alternatives competition. |
By whom? Many of us who have actually gone there in the early season, for decades, since it was called Garibaldi's, know that it is a crap shoot just like everywhere else. It was a rite of passage to go shred your bases up there on your first day. As for a lack of alternatives, my goodness! There are many major/worthy resorts on the continent capable of delivering a good early season experience, same as Whistler. To say otherwise is preposterous. It just depends on weather. Some think that resorts with high levels of snowmaking are a better bet for early in the season, while others look for higher altitude resorts, which have more of a track record of "early" openings, like Copper and Breck. I've noticed some folks here like to hate on Sun Valley, but that's a great early season bet. They are gunned like Italy, good terrain and lift system, and its not crowded at all. (Plus, if you like that snow, you can come back in Feb and ski it again, it'll just be harder!)
There's "open" and there's "fully open". These days, in the Pacific NW, resorts are generally not fully open until after the new year, especially steep stuff. The OP wants to make a big bet, and if they win they'll get a big payout. I don't love the odds myself, but I hope the OP goes somewhere, crushes it and tells us how it went.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Scooter in Seattle wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| WB is considered a good “early season candidate” in the overall N American ski scene. There aren’t a lot of other good alternatives competition. |
By whom? |
By people who don’t live in Colorado or PNW!
Colorado don’t typically get any big dumps early (or any part of the season, for that matter). Breck and Copper may have runs open. But they’re more likely to be on thin base, or even man-made snow. It takes time for many cycle of 2-6” to build up a good base.
The better early season candidates in Colorado are Steamboat and Wolf Creek. For real, surfable snow depth for venturing off-piste. That’s because they have mellow terrain that don’t need a lot of snow to cover up the rocks.
WB may not compete well against Breck and Copper on groomers. But it has a better potential for off-piste early.
Forget the trail counting. Go to bestsnow.net if you want to talk about the kind of snow that puts smile on a skier’s face!
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