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Has anyone been asked to provide a certificate of civic liability when hiring a property in France?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I found a chalet for a group booking of 14 using the chalet Montaigne website. Unlike Vrbo this just puts you in direct touch with the landlord rather than let’s you hit a book button.

The French chalet owner is now asking me to provide a certificate of civic liability which in essence just offers him additional insurance about the security deposit , which is at a much lower more reasonable level than many others chalets. This seems a legit way for French property owners to leave the insurance risk with their tenants.

The chalet owner seems to think my uk home insurance company can provide this but they’ve not responded yet and I’ve not seen any reference to this option on their website.

If anyone has any help or advice on what to get , where from and what an appropriate fee is it would be much appreciated before I spent a few hundred euros on buying something that might not be what’s required.

Thanks,
David
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Davemc37, your travel insurance should include it and your schedule might list it? All French home insurance policies cover it as standard, which is probably why they assume yours does too. Some do have the cover, but possibly not all.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 2-06-22 14:14; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
As helen says, it is normal in French policies. For example if my son burned his school down they'd first come looking at our insurance to rebuild the place, compensate anyone injured before their own policy.
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I’ve checked my travel insurance and there’s nothing there that’s relevant. Doesn’t seem as if standard insurance companies in England have any idea about this.

This is starting to feel like a never ending problem.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Davemc37, it may be called something else such as personal liability insurance? It should cover you for e.g. hitting another skier and usually for damage to property.
Ask your insurer directly, if it isn't included it might be possible to add it for a small sum.
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@Davemc37, I am surprised because I remember investigating this for someone, albeit some time ago, and both SCGB travel insurance and Direct Travel Insurance (or some similar name) had cover for liabilities in respect of a holiday property that you had rented.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Actually it's still there under personal liability :-

Personal Liability – Costs for damage you cause to a third party or their
property (including your Journey accommodation if not owned by you, a
family member or friend).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@skitow, I've also done similar, and have just checked my own and it is on there too (Nationwide Flexplus).
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What about the converse? This suggestion from your chalet owner implies that they may not have their own résponsabilité civile cover. We have to take out specific, additional RC insurance as a rentier - or rather, we choose to. This is to cover claims against us by clients e.g. if someone slips in the shower and claims we didn't provide a safe facility; or if someone got electrocuted by an appliance etc. It sounds a bit as if the owner has limited insurance cover for third-party and wants to ensure you have it, so they're covered for damage you cause. But the converse is also of concern - that they themselves don't have the level of résponsabilité civile cover for issues arising from their facilities causing damage/injury to clients' property and person.
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This requirement, as @Hells Bells says, is absolutely standard in French rentals (though a lot of people probably never read the small print and don't notice it). It doesn't necessarily mean anything sinister. Their own third-party insurance is probably mentioned somewhere in the contract.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
There is nothing sinister in this at all. It is a part of every French home insurance policy. It is the way it works in France. If someone were to flood a chalet, the homeowner's insurers would expect to be able to claim from the person concerned. If someone was electrocuted by an appliance, the person injured would claim from the owner's insurance.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hells Bells wrote:
@skitow, I've also done similar, and have just checked my own and it is on there too (Nationwide Flexplus).


Is that in tour home constants or home buildings insurance?
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Davemc37, who is your travel insurance with?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It’s with Hsbc and it’s definetly not in their policy
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Davemc37 wrote:
It’s with Hsbc and it’s definetly not in their policy

Are you sure? Obviously I don't know which particular HSBC policy you have, but the couple I've just looked at both have Personal Liability cover. For e.g. the Personal Liability section of the HSBC policy I'm looking at here includes:

"We’ll cover compensation an insured person legally has to pay if they cause an accident during a trip that leads to:
1. death or physical injury to any person
2. loss or damage to property or belongings, including temporary holiday accommodation not owned by any insured person or member of their family
"

Isn't it the second item above that you're looking for?


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 8-06-22 7:11; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Davemc37, have you asked them. Mine is in my travel policy not my home insurance. It may be that it is in there too, but I haven't looked for it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Have you asked the chalet owner what happens if you don't have the cover they're asking for? From what you say, they would then hike the security deposit to the same level as all the other chalets on the market, is that right? In which case, if your contents/travel insurance doesn't, you then have to balance the cost of the additional cover (or taking out a second policy that does provide it) against the risk of losing the security deposit. Given that you don't intend to cause any damage, and the odds are that you won't, I assume you'll get your security deposit back?

Just trying to understand why the owner is asking for this. I can see it being easier for the owner's insurer to deal with another insurance company if there's a claim, versus an individual in a foreign country. And I can see the business advantage to the owner in offering a sort of 'discount' on the security deposit if you can show you're covered. It's just the first time I've heard of an owner doing this.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
He won’t let me rent his chalet without this in place. I guess it makes sense for property owners to leave the administration and expense with tenants. If you’ve ever been in a car crash then you’ll know that your premiums go up Co side table in the following year even if you were not at fault.
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I think I need to spend some quality time tonight pouring over our insurance policies. Oh joy.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Davemc37 wrote:
I think I need to spend some quality time tonight pouring over our insurance policies. Oh joy.

If you post a link to the policy wording I'd be happy to have a look. You're looking for the Personal Liability section I think. If it's HSBC, I'd be surprised if the wording I posted above isn't included.
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@Davemc37, if you discover you are not covered by your respective holiday insurances (are the other members of your party covered?), there is a stand-alone policy that I discovered while looking for something else that I'd forgotten I'd bookmarked.
https://www.albinet.fr/en/travel-insurance/cancellation-travel-insurance-tenants-liability-the-luberon/?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@LaForet, there is usually still a damage deposit involved. It is usually the amount of the excess of the owners insurance policy. It is possible though to get rental property cover which would also include damage by guests, but it isn't widely available, and is very expensive. After all, why get something if youe guests already have insurance for such events.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
sugarmoma666 wrote:
Davemc37 wrote:
I think I need to spend some quality time tonight pouring over our insurance policies. Oh joy.

If you post a link to the policy wording I'd be happy to have a look. You're looking for the Personal Liability section I think. If it's HSBC, I'd be surprised if the wording I posted above isn't included.


If I did find that I’m still not sure on a couple of points.

1. I’d imagine He is after some form of cover note or certificate not just a section 5.1 subsection v) extract from a policy in what will be a foreign language to him

2. Would I need to get similar from the other members of our group so that I don’t end up taking the hit in terms of excesses and increased future premiums if someone else does the damage.
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@Davemc37 I would just provide details of the policy. A policy number and the insured, you could send a schedule of insurance with the relevant part highlighted. As for the others, you have at least for now provided proof that the cover is in place, and can ask others if they have this cover too. I really think you (and maybe the owner) are overthinking things though. A travel insurance claim doesn't usually affect future premiums.
If you are really concerned, the separate policy I linked to above covers everyone staying in the accommodation, and also has covid cancellation cover, along with other stuff. Price depends on cost of accommodation. Shared between you all it may not be that much each.
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