 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi there,
Bit of a classic gear dilemma here! Basically I want to start touring and I'm planning a trip to georgia next year. I've never owned any skis or boots after skiing for about 12 weeks total since I was 13, but after a week skiing with a guide the whole time with lots of off piste this year, I'm desperate to get into more backcountry stuff and do a bit of uphill too.
I don't really know what I've skiied before and I've never been able to distinguish between particularly good or bad skis/boots, I've just hopped on and had a great time, so all the differences people describe between skis doesn't mean that much to me. I'm just looking for some recommendations for the elusive set up that can do it all as I can't afford to buy two sets of skis.
My thoughts at this moment are to go for a new pair of 2019 black crows captis (90mm underfoot) which I've been offered for £220 and ffind some tech Bindings to go with them.
My main questions are would these skis serve me well for the backcountry off piste stuff as I understand they are more of a resort orientated ski.
Also is tech binding the way to go? I see people saying start with frame and see from there but I'm pretty convinced I'll be into it whatever. Would I get away with those tech bindings/boots on resort days too? The concept of frame does sound more uncomfortable to me but having done no back country I'm not really sure! Unfortunately I don't have the option to test stuff and now feels like a good time to get shopping in the down season.
Obviously going to invest in the safety side too and do an avalanche course, just curious about the gear really.
Cheers for reading and I look forward to responses!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How many days per holiday do you expect to be skinning vs using the lifts?
The right solution depends a lot on that. I personally wouldn't go for out and out tech bindings if you are going to be mainly skiing from lifts. Something like Shifts would be a better option.
What kind of boots will you be in? That is another question and frankly one I'd resolve before thinking about skis...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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For boots - go and see a good bootfitter, talk through what you want to do, how you ski, etc. and they'll put you in the right boot for you. Lots of recommendations on here for good bootfitters.
For skis - most of the people I know who've done this seem to land on a ski in the 90mm - 100mm underfoot range. There are loads of good options out there. As @jedster notes, a big part of the decision is probably how much skinning vs lifts you plan. Lots of skinning would suggest a lighter ski, lots of lifts then maybe something heavier. The general rule is that lighter is more fun on the way up, heavier more fun on the way down.
For bindings - it sounds like Shifts might be a good choice. If you want to save a little weight, then Tectons or Kingpins might be worth a look. Frame bindings work well and are pretty bomb proof, but they are relatively heavy and bulky. I've skied Tectons for lift served and touring for several years and they've never let me down.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jedster wrote: |
How many days per holiday do you expect to be skinning vs using the lifts?
The right solution depends a lot on that. I personally wouldn't go for out and out tech bindings if you are going to be mainly skiing from lifts. Something like Shifts would be a better option.
What kind of boots will you be in? That is another question and frankly one I'd resolve before thinking about skis... |
What he said ^^^
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Good advice above.
Definitely makes sense to get boots.
For skis it really depends how many weeks you plan to ski each season if it even makes sense financially. Remember you have to add the price of ski carriage and maintenance - it takes a while for the skis to break even. The big advantage of renting is the flexibility, you can pick a ski for exactly what you plan to be doing and how conditions look. Some places even let you swap midweek, so for example if you planned in a couple of days piste skiing and a couple of days touring you could use a specific ski for each rather than be stuck with a ski that does both ok but neither great.
If your doing enough days where the cost outweighs the flexibility and it makes sense to buy, you need to work out how much time you will be touring to lift served, and how much onpiste to off piste. That will narrow it down a bit. Then you probably need to do a bit of testing next season to find what you like - stiffness, sidecut, shape, width etc. (I know you say it doesn't matter to you, but I suspect if you test some out back to back you will notice a difference). A lot of people that don't test or have any idea what they want/need end up buying twice.
Unfortunately there is no perfect do it all ski, hence why people have quivers. If something excels in one thing it's probably a little worse in other aspects. That doesn't mean you can't find a good all mountain do it all ski that can work ok for everything. Just be realistic in your expectations.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@chapman1991, if you've never skied tech bindings (and presumably not used full-on touring boots either) I'd be very wary about buying a set-up with tech bindings for use everywhere. They definitely feel different, and you might not enjoy the difference (even if you've never noticed any difference with alpine bindings).
Why not rent for your Georgia trip, then buy afterwards? Unless you live within day trip range of mountains, or ski multiple weeks per year (at least 3-4) then financially, renting is cheaper. So if you can't afford 2 pairs of skis (or to buy the wrong ones, then the right ones), this limits the risk of an expensive mistake. Also, if the snow in Georgia is good (i.e. lots of it) then wider/off piste focused skis will make your life easier.
Also, try to test different skis next year and really focus on how they feel. Then you'll have a better idea of what to buy. Black Crows have a bit of a "love 'em or hate 'em" reputation, and if you will spend most of your time in future offpiste (either lift served, touring or a mix) there may well be better options out there for you and they don't need to cost the earth.
Final thought is that touring has exploded in popularity during COVID, and quite probably next year there will be lots of lightly used touring kit available second hand, as people get used to resorts being fully open again (and forget that going uphill under your own steam can be fun, if more effort,).
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Ah thanks for the responses.
Basically I'm planning to be there for 2-3 months and getting as much skiing in as possible, so buying gear seemed like the right option. I'm planning on tryin to carve out as much time for skiing as possible year to year from now on as well.
From what I can tell it would be a lot of lift then skinning for a few hours. Also definitely some possibilities for just skinning from the road.
I'm Not sure if the options for testing/renting gear out there will be quite as good as the alps say, but I will have a look into it and see if I can find some options.
Otherwise, I'll have a look into the shift Bindings and boots first. I was a bit put off by the cost of the shift ones and it seemed like I could get a tech setup a bit cheaper but they do seem like a clever solution.
Will post up any rental solutions I come across out there and thabks for the advice again!
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@chapman1991, so you will be doing a lot of touring and off piste skiing which justifies a dedicated setup. IMO:
1) those are the wrong skis - too narrow and a bit heavy. In Black Crow you want the Freebird versions.
2) you definitely want light tech bindings not Shifts
3) your top priority is a good pair of touring boots - something like a Scarpa F1 LT would be ideal (expensive but will give you the most payback)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you are out there for 2-3 months then buy gear. As others have said, the main priority is to sort boots out and then worry about everything else later. You definitely want a boot with tech fittings and you probably want a heavier touring/freeride boot that is biased more to the downhill. Beyond that, what you end up in is largely down to the bootfitter.
Two further things. First, I wouldn't routinely thrash a tech setup on piste. Yes, you can do it but the safety release isn't as good and the gear isn't designed to do thousands of metres of vertical per day over a period of months. This is what alpine bindings/the shift are for.
Second, if I am going up for an hour or so then I have a pair of skis with shifts that weigh 5kg per foot with the boots. If I am going up for more than that then the 4kg per foot setup comes out. I can climb on that at 400m per hour for most of a day. Both setups will ski well in most conditions.
So if you are looking at one setup it really depends how far and how frequently you are intending to walk.
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| Quote: |
3) your top priority is a good pair of touring boots - something like a Scarpa F1 LT would be ideal (expensive but will give you the most payback)
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That's a punchy call for a first boot. How well does the OP ski?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| Quote: |
3) your top priority is a good pair of touring boots - something like a Scarpa F1 LT would be ideal (expensive but will give you the most payback)
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That's a punchy call for a first boot. How well does the OP ski? |
From my own experience in Georgia and his objective I suspect he won’t be doing much piste skiing.
F1 LT is a really great touring boot. Unless he’s in some sketchy terrain, hucking cliffs he shouldn’t need anything more burly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think investing in the touring set up makes sense as I could always rent alpine gear if I want to do a full resort day because its not too expensive. My priority is to develop my off piste and backcountry skiing and renting all the gear for this stuff really seems to add up.
Im a largely self taught, confident skiier who definitely lacks a bit of technique both on and off piste, so I'd describe myself as between intermediate and advanced. My partner and her family who are very good well trained skiiers seemed to think I was surprisingly good!
So it sounds like boots are the starting point and everyone seems to be leaning towards tech now. Are there any recommendations aside from the scarpas? How important is going to a proper boot fitter? Should I avoid second hand?
Also Bindings recommendations would be great too. It seems shift binding options are fairly limited so easier decision if I did go that route.
I'm again stuck in the middle of being happy to invest somewhat heavily in the gear but also trying to keep costs down so pocket friendly recommendations are welcome!
I've been looking at dynafit hojis and speed turn Bindings but outside of that it's all very confusing!
Thanks for the great responses.
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The Hoji is a strong boot downhill focused - if it fits your foot.
Tecnica Zero-G Tour Pro is probably the most popular choice. @CH20 a boot fitter on here raves about them. I’ve got some and agree they are great, especially for the down.
F1 LT is a dream to tour on. A mate went from Maestrales to these and hasn’t put his Maestrales on again. I have the older version Alien RS. When you’re doing long tours they are just great - light as a feather and range of motion is perfect. Once you’ve toured on these it’s hard to put the ZGTP’s back on… They ski fine but not as good as ZGTP.
For bindings Marker Alpinist is a solid good value binding. Dynafit, Salomon mtn surely also good options
But from my experience if you get on an ATK Freeraider you won’t want to go back…
Why not 2nd hand if you can try the boots. But it’s the area I would prioritize to spend money on as if you get it wrong you will really regret it. And not sure how easy it will be to find good stuff in Georgia. We were in Mestia and there was nothing. You can economize on skis / bindings if you blow your budget
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
The Hoji is a strong boot downhill focused - if it fits your foot.
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Repeat this quote, but with a variety of different downhill-focused AT boots. Many could be great...or awful, if they don't fit well.
Boots are the right place to start; go to a good boot fitter with a decent range of AT boots and let them pick the right boot for you. If you say whereabouts you are, no doubt you'll get recommendations. Don't cut corners here, and be honest with the fitter about your ability and aspirations. Second hand could be fine, but without experience of what works and what doesn't, you increase the risk of getting it wrong - and end up buying multiple times.
Then think about skis. Bear in mind that if you have about 12 weeks' experience, spread across multiple years (I'm thinking at least 5 years but that's an assumption, I may be wrong), then you are likely to improve lots if you ski multiple weeks within a 2-3 month period. So what you want and need in a ski will likely change during the trip. Second hand is a good option here.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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One other thing to be aware of is quiver killers. You can switch bindings between multiple pairs of skis or multiple bindings on 1 set of skis.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@chapman1991, If you have narrow feet I can highly recommend the Lange XT Free Pro Model Low Volume 140 flex. One cool thing with this boot is interchangeable soles for Alpine or Gripwalk. Most touring boots only have grip walk and aren't compatible with lots of higher end alpine bindings.
Although stiff they don't ski to 140 imo but are much better than other "performance" downhill focussed free ride boots I have tried.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Great, I'll look into bootfitters around Bristol, UK and see what comes back. Glad I haven't jumped in for something random off the web before I know what will work for me.
I'm 5'9" and about 70kg last time I checked so those Sakanas look fun and like they would do the job for touring whilst also giving me an experience of something I haven't tried before. Add in the bindings and it sounds like a good deal.
Thanks for the help again, really feel a lot less confused by the whole thing now!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| chapman1991 wrote: |
Great, I'll look into bootfitters around Bristol, UK and see what comes back. Glad I haven't jumped in for something random off the web before I know what will work for me.
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Possibly not a great time to buy boots as I would expect the popular boots will have sold out by the end of the season? Any good touring boot fitter should have the Tecnica Zero G Pro Tour and the Scarpa F1 LT. If they don’t ask why not and be wary!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Great, I'll look into bootfitters around Bristol, UK and see what comes back.
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Go and see @CEM at Solutions4Feet in Bicester. Probably the most frequently recommended bootfitter on here.
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Hey all, I'm in a very similar position to the OP, but based a bit further North around Manchester. Looking to get my first pair of boots for a mix of touring and downhill.
I've had a quick look on the usual suggestions - lockwoods/profeet/solutions4feet - but none of them seem to have a particularly large stock of touring boots, and from what I could see, none of them stock Scarpa.
Found a place online called BackcountryUK, based up in Ilkley that seem promising from their website - big range of Touring boots, specialise in backcountry, and have a pretty bomber boot fit guarantee.
1) Do people know if places like lockwoods/profeet/solutions4feet can order in additional stock that's not on their website if you have a specific request?
2) Does anyone have any experience of BackcountryUK?
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BackcountryUK were good for me and if you search on here you will find quite a few recommendations for them.
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Backcountry are fine, Phil is a keen tourer and seems knowledgeable on most of the manufacturers. Be careful though, he probably sell you a ski.....might as well stick a binding on there !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Just_Waltr, very satisfied Backcountry customer for boots and bindings. The range of boots is as good as anywhere.
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@Just_Waltr, Backcountry are excellent but they're not in Ilkley any more! Just down the road in Otley.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Forgot to mention Anything Technical: Kendal, for northern based folk.
Callum....is an extremely knowledgeable bootfitter, from a ski racing background .
Probably as good as anywhere for all things touring.
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